Dog breeder questions?!
Discussion
Im off to have a look at a Mastiff pup from what seems like a repuatable breeder this w/end, the pups are only about 4 wks old so wont be ready until December.
The breeder has already questioned me about my dog background, house suitability etc' (as such a large dog) which all seems good, they obviously want their pups to go to a good home.
The only thing thats confused me is the fact they've made it very clear that although I can put a deposit down, I CANNOT actually chose "which" pup I want. The reason for this is the fact they want a male showdog from the litter and they are to young at the mo for them to decide which one.
This bothers me slightly - as we're traveling 200 odd mile trip and paying around 1000quid, is it too much to ask to be able to decide which pup i wanted? What happens if I put a deposit and when it comes to December, Im left with the one with no personality and maybe markings Im not keen on?
This may be the norm, but just after pointers if anyone can help??
Cheers
The breeder has already questioned me about my dog background, house suitability etc' (as such a large dog) which all seems good, they obviously want their pups to go to a good home.
The only thing thats confused me is the fact they've made it very clear that although I can put a deposit down, I CANNOT actually chose "which" pup I want. The reason for this is the fact they want a male showdog from the litter and they are to young at the mo for them to decide which one.
This bothers me slightly - as we're traveling 200 odd mile trip and paying around 1000quid, is it too much to ask to be able to decide which pup i wanted? What happens if I put a deposit and when it comes to December, Im left with the one with no personality and maybe markings Im not keen on?
This may be the norm, but just after pointers if anyone can help??
Cheers
Yep, had the same for a breeder I was in contact with. She would allow me to choose and put down a deposit on a puppy, however if a show home came along and picked mine I would have to choose another dog. Basically they want to put "sire of crufts qualifies/Junior warrents/sh champs etc
I found another breeder, ended up with a fantastic dog and ent on to qualify him for Crufts in the show ring. I would say walk away.
I found another breeder, ended up with a fantastic dog and ent on to qualify him for Crufts in the show ring. I would say walk away.
Daggerpie said:
The only thing thats confused me is the fact they've made it very clear that although I can put a deposit down, I CANNOT actually chose "which" pup I want. The reason for this is the fact they want a male showdog from the litter and they are to young at the mo for them to decide which one.
Common enough. They want pick of the litter - they will use that animal for shows and then for future breeding, so they want what is "the best" of the litter. Can also be in some cases where the stud dog owner wants a pup instead of a fee, they will also want the pick of the litter, as they will as likely as not be using that dog for breeding.I take it they are happy for you to choose two dogs and whichever one of them is not taken by them, you can have though? Is it first come first served or what?
I too would find another breeder.
I can understand they want to pick the best of the litter, and i can understand that the personalities and features of the dogs will be changing over the next few weeks, but by 4 weeks, they would have a pretty good idea of which one was their keeper.... Failing that, they shouldnt advertise the pups for sale until they know which ones are definitely available!
I can understand they want to pick the best of the litter, and i can understand that the personalities and features of the dogs will be changing over the next few weeks, but by 4 weeks, they would have a pretty good idea of which one was their keeper.... Failing that, they shouldnt advertise the pups for sale until they know which ones are definitely available!
Thanks for the feedback people, I think I'll fire them a few more questions and see what they say.
You're right, theres no rush on getting a pup, just wanted one from a decent line-up & background that was all. It won't be showed as such anyway, more of a big, handsome family friend. Friends have said I'm silly paying top brass for one with show dog qualities, far better off paying less for one from a family background.
Will keep updated..cheers.
You're right, theres no rush on getting a pup, just wanted one from a decent line-up & background that was all. It won't be showed as such anyway, more of a big, handsome family friend. Friends have said I'm silly paying top brass for one with show dog qualities, far better off paying less for one from a family background.
Will keep updated..cheers.
I'd agree with your friends. Why pay top dollar for a dog that just happens to fit the daft criteria that Crufts dictate a 'good' dog must have. If you really want a particular breed I'd contact the relevant rescue society, most breeds have them. If not, go to your nearest Dogs Trust Centre and get a dog that needs a loving home.
There are pros and cons with paying top money for a good dog.
The Pros:
Id imagine if youve done your homework, then you know by paying the top money for this dog, that youll be getting a pooch with a good blood line, and good credentials, INCLUDING a good healthy background, breeders wouldnt be able to justify this money if the dog hasnt had its relevant health checks.
I paid a lot of money for my bulldog Boris, and his health has been spot on from day one, where as my other Bullie Beau, who was a rescue, and very poor breeding, has had quite severe health issues since the day ive had her!
The Cons:
You could be being fobbed off! And if you arent going to show or breed, then its a lot of money for a pet!
BUT
There will also be specific Rescue centres for the breed, that may well have puppies or younger dogs that are just crying out for a new forever home!
The Pros:
Id imagine if youve done your homework, then you know by paying the top money for this dog, that youll be getting a pooch with a good blood line, and good credentials, INCLUDING a good healthy background, breeders wouldnt be able to justify this money if the dog hasnt had its relevant health checks.
I paid a lot of money for my bulldog Boris, and his health has been spot on from day one, where as my other Bullie Beau, who was a rescue, and very poor breeding, has had quite severe health issues since the day ive had her!
The Cons:
You could be being fobbed off! And if you arent going to show or breed, then its a lot of money for a pet!
BUT
There will also be specific Rescue centres for the breed, that may well have puppies or younger dogs that are just crying out for a new forever home!
I paid good money for mine, not because of the lineage, although that is good but for the tests that were carried out on the puppies and the time and trouble the breeder went to with them. They had their hearing and eyes tested, the pups had the best food and was carried out for socialisng and to be seperated from the litter. Both parents had all the relevant hips and elbows scored and had eye tests. These are not cheap to do. I visited the litter once a week and was encouraged to do by the breeder. I would always recommend her to people looking for a puppy, she has a litter a year and does a sterling job with them. She calls monthly to check up on him and me and we had to sign a contract to confirm that if we have to rehome him for any reasson we have to send him back to the breeder (she reassured us that she would not count him going to my Mum or Aunt if anything did happen to me).
Basically I prefer to pay more to get a puppy who had the best start in life.
Basically I prefer to pay more to get a puppy who had the best start in life.
rovermorris999 said:
Best off getting a mongrel or a greyhound. So many breeds have been ruined by the Kennel Club and their daft breed standards.
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\Ridiculous and sweeping generalisation.
OP.
I'd find someone else, it sounds like a puppyfarm. We picked our Basil from a very young litter, the (KC registered) breeder started calling him by his given name from a very early stage so that he would learn to recognise it. They also sent us weekly Video clips, and images of Basil as he grew from 2 weeks to 10 when we collected him. This is the sort of attention to detail that denotes a caring upbringing.
My Brothers Black Lab was also picked from litter, and the breeder daubed his ear with a type of tip-ex as to identify him from a litter of black labs.
Edited by Flat6time on Tuesday 8th November 14:43
A mongrel, on average, will have less inbred problems than a pedigree, particularly compared to a breed where there aren't many individuals. Gene pool size matters. That of course doesn't mean there aren't plenty of healthy pedigrees because there are but the odds aren't so good. And some breeds have been royally buggered by the KC over the years. Proper working or racing strains also tend to have less problems as they are bred for function not looks. Unpalatable for Kennel Club fans but true nontheless and there's little point discussing it as I'd get no further than trying to convince a Jehovah's Witness that they've been duped 
So time to ignore thread I think.
Good luck on finding a dog OP, there's one out there waiting for you.
So time to ignore thread I think.Good luck on finding a dog OP, there's one out there waiting for you.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Tuesday 8th November 15:13
Edited by rovermorris999 on Tuesday 8th November 16:11
rovermorris999 said:
A mongrel, on average, will have less inbred problems than a pedigree, particularly compared to a breed where there aren't many individuals. Gene pool size matters. That of course doesn't mean there aren't plenty of healthy pedigrees because there are but the odds aren't so good. And some breeds have been royally buggered by the KC over the years. Proper working or racing strains also tend to have less problems as they are bred for function not looks. Unpalatable for Kennel Club fans but true nontheless.
All very well and good. and demonstrates some genuine knowledge in amongst some sweeping assumptions.Edited by rovermorris999 on Tuesday 8th November 15:13
FYI, the OP has picked a Mastif. Not a Mongrel or a Greyhound, so I'm really not sure what your contribution offers, other than a generalised assessment of the benefits of choosing a non-breed over a Breed dog.
Flat6time said:
All very well and good. and demonstrates some genuine knowledge in amongst some sweeping assumptions.
FYI, the OP has picked a Mastif. Not a Mongrel or a Greyhound, so I'm really not sure what your contribution offers, other than a generalised assessment of the benefits of choosing a non-breed over a Breed dog.
Gosh, praise for my knowlege from one who knows! I'm honoured FYI, the OP has picked a Mastif. Not a Mongrel or a Greyhound, so I'm really not sure what your contribution offers, other than a generalised assessment of the benefits of choosing a non-breed over a Breed dog.
I know what the OP has chosen and I was agreeing with his friends and adding the idea of the breed rescue or other rescue kennels. And I dare say there'll be mastiff crosses out there if he just wants a big loveable pet.We got our flatcoat retriever from a reputable breeder and had no idea which out of the litter was going to be ours. We only knew she was female but then again there were 6 females in the litter.
The breeder wanted to keep a female to show/breed from. Another was going to Germany to be a gundog on some big estate, another was destined to be a show dog and others were going to previous flatcoat owners. So I think the breeder was trying to match up the most suitable pup with the owners needs.
Couldn't have asked for a better dog tbh, we defintely got the one with the biggest personality imo!
(On a side note the pup she kept decided it didn't like shows so perhaps she kept the wrong one.)
The breeder wanted to keep a female to show/breed from. Another was going to Germany to be a gundog on some big estate, another was destined to be a show dog and others were going to previous flatcoat owners. So I think the breeder was trying to match up the most suitable pup with the owners needs.
Couldn't have asked for a better dog tbh, we defintely got the one with the biggest personality imo!
(On a side note the pup she kept decided it didn't like shows so perhaps she kept the wrong one.)
For both our dogs we researched the breeders that we approached for pups thoroughly and got a number of recommendations. One, we were lucky had a pup fully available that she neither wanted to show or breed from. The other, I spoke to when the b
h was pregnant, she would not take a deposit because a) she didn't know for sure how many would be in the litter and some puppies may not survive, b) she wanted one male for breeding and c) she had a waiting list, so we had to wait until the people ahead of us in the waiting list made their decision (they decided on a female) before we could visit our pup at the breeders home. Only during the second visit, did we agree the pup and I left a deposit.
I felt like I was on trial, and that, is exactly how it should be! Dogs are not comodities (especially so for small dogs) and I wish more breeders vetted owners as thoroughly before accepting the cash.
I don't think that the scenario above sounds like a puppy farm. I would recommend making at least one, if not two visits to the breeders home to see the breeder and the bh, and the other pups. If you think it may be a puppy farm then read up on how they operate (they tend to have a stooge breeder, but there will be obvious signs) Be prepared to walk away if you are not happy and be reassured if you are interrogated - it probably means they DO actually give a f*ck about the dogs.
This is a link to get some more info: http://www.dogs-r-us.org/buyingapuppy.shtml
h was pregnant, she would not take a deposit because a) she didn't know for sure how many would be in the litter and some puppies may not survive, b) she wanted one male for breeding and c) she had a waiting list, so we had to wait until the people ahead of us in the waiting list made their decision (they decided on a female) before we could visit our pup at the breeders home. Only during the second visit, did we agree the pup and I left a deposit.I felt like I was on trial, and that, is exactly how it should be! Dogs are not comodities (especially so for small dogs) and I wish more breeders vetted owners as thoroughly before accepting the cash.
I don't think that the scenario above sounds like a puppy farm. I would recommend making at least one, if not two visits to the breeders home to see the breeder and the b
h, and the other pups. If you think it may be a puppy farm then read up on how they operate (they tend to have a stooge breeder, but there will be obvious signs) Be prepared to walk away if you are not happy and be reassured if you are interrogated - it probably means they DO actually give a f*ck about the dogs.This is a link to get some more info: http://www.dogs-r-us.org/buyingapuppy.shtml
Personally -breed rescue .You won't usually get papers (but if not showing -does it matter)Mine comes from a dreed rescue ,an knowing the breed ,if he haddn't been done ,he'd do well in shows(apart from age) .But I wanted a pet good with kids and fortunately asked the right questions of the first centre ,who were quick to tell me not to take him if he'd be around kids .No 2 is one I chose ,and going for a walk involves meeting lots of kids ,who love to pet him and he loves it .Now something else ,don't know yuor age ,but if getting on -consider the life span of the breed .I chose an eight year old cairn(two years ago) ,but I was 62 at time ,and this breed can live till 18 .That would make me 74 at possible max dog life span .Get a three year old and he would still be looking for a hike for a lot more years (or re home a rescue)
I'd say ask a few more questions of them...
If they're happy for you to choose two, then it sounds OK - after all, why shouldn't they want pick of the litter, if they're breeding? It's what breeding is all about!
But as others have said, 4 weeks is plenty of time to have formed opinions on personality and character... and, to an extent, body formation... so how much time are they wanting, exactly, and why haven't they chosen already?
We paid "top dollar" for both ours - both could be shown, as have excellent pedigrees, but both are "just" pets. We went the 'breeder' route to eliminate health risks, particularly for our English bully. But our English bully's family were all showers (half-brother Cruft's champ of some sort!), and the breeders didn't say which pup we could or couldn't have - odd to advertise all pups for sale and then renege on it!
If they're happy for you to choose two, then it sounds OK - after all, why shouldn't they want pick of the litter, if they're breeding? It's what breeding is all about!
But as others have said, 4 weeks is plenty of time to have formed opinions on personality and character... and, to an extent, body formation... so how much time are they wanting, exactly, and why haven't they chosen already?
We paid "top dollar" for both ours - both could be shown, as have excellent pedigrees, but both are "just" pets. We went the 'breeder' route to eliminate health risks, particularly for our English bully. But our English bully's family were all showers (half-brother Cruft's champ of some sort!), and the breeders didn't say which pup we could or couldn't have - odd to advertise all pups for sale and then renege on it!
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