Type 2 Diabetes in old person - Nightmare

[worsy]

FiL 83 going 84 soon.
Type 2 Diabetic but blood sugar value over 20

Seems unable to grasp that eating chocolate desserts and buying supermarket sandwiches for lunch are the problem. Constantly moans that he can't understand why his sugars are so high when he is on a rigorous diet.

Doctor now suggesting Insulin but he barely checks his levels now.

Any advice, tips, tales of woe?

[Scrump]

My father (80) is the same.
I have now pretty much given up trying to change his diet, he has lived this far without diabetes issues so just let him get on and enjoy what time he has left!

[worsy]

Scrump said:

My father (80) is the same.
I have now pretty much given up trying to change his diet, he has lived this far without diabetes issues so just let him get on and enjoy what time he has left!

My thoughts too. The problem is the doctors seem hell bent on managing it. Partly because FiL wants an op to correct some ankle pain (madness) and they are refusing due to his diabetes scores. I think this is an excuse tbh.

The other issue is that he is very confused, falling asleep a lot which we think could be related.

Does your Dad have the same?

[Brainpox]

You can’t make anyone look after themselves. Diabetes is complicated even to those of us fully invested in it.

High BG will increase recovery time and risk of infection so it’s standard procedure to require better control before elective surgery.

[Phil.]

A low carb diet is the only way to fix high glucose levels in a T2 diabetic. The drugs only reduce the glucose levels by up to 20%-30% and often come with side effects. So either he decides to modify his diet with some help, or as above, you just let him enjoy what’s left of his life.

[WyrleyD]

worsy said:

Scrump said:

My father (80) is the same.
I have now pretty much given up trying to change his diet, he has lived this far without diabetes issues so just let him get on and enjoy what time he has left!

My thoughts too. The problem is the doctors seem hell bent on managing it. Partly because FiL wants an op to correct some ankle pain (madness) and they are refusing due to his diabetes scores. I think this is an excuse tbh.

The other issue is that he is very confused, falling asleep a lot which we think could be related.

Does your Dad have the same?

It's not an excuse at all. High blood sugars will prevent any lower limb wound from healing and will eventually lead to amputation if healing is unsuccessful. Also, giving someone who is "very" diabetic insulin is akin to putting an alcoholic on a vodka drip (not may analogy but a consultant who deals with insulin resistance and diabetes). It's insulin resistance that causes diabetes and sugar and carbohydrates that, over time, causes insulin resistance - it creeps up and in the end the body cannot use the insulin that you have let alone give it more.

[Hoofy]

He probably gets that eating a bag of sugar is not wise but doesn't realise that it's carbs in sandwiches that gets converted to sugar in the body which is the problem. Does he understand this bit? Or does he view a ham salad sandwich as not being an issue for his diabetes?

[worsy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Hoofy said:

He probably gets that eating a bag of sugar is not wise but doesn't realise that it's carbs in sandwiches that gets converted to sugar in the body which is the problem. Does he understand this bit? Or does he view a ham salad sandwich as not being an issue for his diabetes?

He has been told. My wife did his shopping and would buy "healthy" food, prpared salads, ready meals etc with the right traffic lights, low fat sauces. She had it down to 6ish.

He finds the diet boring and started sneaking out to Sainsburys and loading up with Danish Pastries. Now he is back to specifying what she should shop for.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Having seen what happened to my own previously fit-as-a-fiddle in-laws I would say that still being alive in your mid-80s is bloody awful and any extra time you get is more a chore than a blessing.
I'd let him enjoy whatever time he has left and not bother treating anything.

[Slow.Patrol]

Sebastian Tombs said:

Having seen what happened to my own previously fit-as-a-fiddle in-laws I would say that still being alive in your mid-80s is bloody awful and any extra time you get is more a chore than a blessing.
I'd let him enjoy whatever time he has left and not bother treating anything.

Agree with this.

My personal experience is that the NHS basically give up on people over 80. It took nearly a year for them to diagnose my Dad's cancer. He was dead in three months.

MiL is 91. She has been housebound for over three years. Spends her day watching TV. That is not living.

[Hoofy]

worsy said:

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Hoofy said:

He probably gets that eating a bag of sugar is not wise but doesn't realise that it's carbs in sandwiches that gets converted to sugar in the body which is the problem. Does he understand this bit? Or does he view a ham salad sandwich as not being an issue for his diabetes?

He has been told. My wife did his shopping and would buy "healthy" food, prpared salads, ready meals etc with the right traffic lights, low fat sauces. She had it down to 6ish.

He finds the diet boring and started sneaking out to Sainsburys and loading up with Danish Pastries. Now he is back to specifying what she should shop for.

Oh dear. I guess he's in a fk-it mood? As long as he's happy with the outcome of his decision then I guess you have to respect that. TBH when I'm in my 80s, I'm taking up cigars. I've always liked the smell but am not keen on the mouth cancer.

[Pica-Pica]

I was feeling tired and constantly coughing, so I went to the GP in September. He diagnosed ‘silent reflux’, gave me tablets which resolved that and put in for a chest x-ray ‘to rule out lung cancer’. The next day that appointment came through the post, for the following week, and was clear on that score.

I also had three phials of blood taken and checked for everything. Mostly OK,
PSA OK
B12 low (had a course for that)
Cholesterol fine, despite using porridge with full fat goats milk. That was a pleasant surprise

The surprise was the ‘pre-diabetes’ marker. I then had a talk with a nurse (nothing I didn’t know), that got me into restricting my diet substantially (minimal alcohol, no sweet stuff, no snacking after 6pm). That was over the last 3 months. I have booked next week for follow up blood tests. It will be interesting if the ‘pre-diabetes’ marker has improved. I lost a stone in weight and am now in the normal BMI range.

In Wales, many people are put on NERS (National Exercise Referral Scheme) - basically a set of gym exercises and free gym access for 13 weeks or so (voluntary, of course). I may see if I can get that free gym lark!. I think NERS only operates in Wales.

[Yahonza]

Pica-Pica said:

In Wales, many people are put on NERS (National Exercise Referral Scheme) - basically a set of gym exercises and free gym access for 13 weeks or so (voluntary, of course). I may see if I can get that free gym lark!. I think NERS only operates in Wales.

Good on Wales - exercise as an intervention has the biggest effect size of just about anything you can think of.

As for the OP and tales of woe, one of the hardest parts of diabetes is the lack of sugar getting into the system, thus driving a desire to eat and take on fuel to counter this, and so on. It isn't a wilful disobedience of medical advice, but rather the body doing what the limbic system tells it to - e.g. raid the fridge.
Persistently high blood glucose levels are not good news though.

[popeyewhite]

Scrump said:

My father (80) is the same.
I have now pretty much given up trying to change his diet, he has lived this far without diabetes issues so just let him get on and enjoy what time he has left!

That is one possible scenario, and one I facd with my mother who is now 90. As her main carer in the family I was quite conflicted over this issue. Yes, it's their life, and yes they might not have much time left, but... looking after an elderly person is similar in ways to looking after a child, and if you intentionally ignore or just put aside treatment that may improve their health I see it as possible neglect. You don't want to make them miserable, or start to 'hate' you (anyone looking after an older person will know what I mean), it's the last thing you want, but if you decide to ignore a heath condition that's potentially dangerous... a balance must be found. They rely on you for so much, do you really think it's best to ignore medical advice? What if the older person lives for another 15 years?

[Gas1883]

I have a 86 yr old mother ( non diabetic ) who spends her days drinking bottles of sherry , chain smoking fags & eating bar after bar of chocolate, apparently she should of been gone years ago but mentally is as sharp as ever , but does have mobility issues
I’m diabetic & all I hear is my dad would of had the chocolate pudding ( nurse ) , my husbands the worst diabetic you could meet ( nurse again ) , on my recent diabetic review the lady said you’re no problem , I’m just dreading the rest of the patients today
Yesterday in hospital the nurse said what are your b/ s normally , 5/6 , yes we hear that all the time & there normally 20 , checked mine & was 6
I’ve mates who’ve had amputations because of diabetis , I don’t want that so although not perfect I do try to be as sensible as possible , 62 , not old / old I guess , but getting on , I think it’s just the individual , I’ve mates with heart issues who still have to have there daily fix of greggs bacon / sausage / omelette rolls , pastry sausage rolls , donuts , large latte etc

[worsy]

Thanks all.

Not sure he actually is in f88k it mode TBH. Outwardly he still wants his op, can't understand why his score is so high when he's being so good. Maybe a little early onset dementia sadly.

The unfortunate thing is that he thinks the insulin is the magic cure and he is desperate for it so he can crack on.

I'm very much of the, let him enjoy what he has left approach but my wife feels that need to look after him.

[popeyewhite]

worsy said:

I'm very much of the, let him enjoy what he has left approach

Hmm I would ask Is constructively doing nothing actually taking care of him?

worsy said:

but my wife feels that need to look after him.

My option...but good luck with whatever you decide. Remember you'll need to be able to look back and think yes I did the right thing back then... .

[Badda]

Gas1883 said:

I have a 86 yr old mother ( non diabetic ) who spends her days drinking bottles of sherry , chain smoking fags & eating bar after bar of chocolate, apparently she should of been gone years ago but mentally is as sharp as ever , but does have mobility issues
I’m diabetic & all I hear is my dad would of had the chocolate pudding ( nurse ) , my husbands the worst diabetic you could meet ( nurse again ) , on my recent diabetic review the lady said you’re no problem , I’m just dreading the rest of the patients today
Yesterday in hospital the nurse said what are your b/ s normally , 5/6 , yes we hear that all the time & there normally 20 , checked mine & was 6
I’ve mates who’ve had amputations because of diabetis , I don’t want that so although not perfect I do try to be as sensible as possible , 62 , not old / old I guess , but getting on , I think it’s just the individual , I’ve mates with heart issues who still have to have there daily fix of greggs bacon / sausage / omelette rolls , pastry sausage rolls , donuts , large latte etc

And not a full stop in sight.

[James_33]

I'm a type 1 diabetic, albeit I'm not in my 80s but late 30s, I'm not saying any of my take on it all is anyway relevant to you're dad's but ever since i was diagnosed 8 years ago it has gradually sucked the life out of me to where i am a shell of the person i used to be, the relentless having to count carbs and multiple injections a day as well as testing blood sugars, made even harder by the fact i drive for a living and the dvla having their own rules on that too.

My grandad bless him passed away recently he was mid 80s a type 2 diabetic and despite him not passing directly through that, he did have a heart problem and whilst he was told he could have a operation to help him with it, his attitude was that at his age he wanted to enjoy the rest of his life that he had rather than having an operation that may also take a long time to recover from and potentially may not wake up from.

Some people know what the consequences are from neglecting their health but if he's got to his 80s and he's relatively happy then let him get on with it i say.

[Gas1883]

Badda said:

Gas1883 said:

I have a 86 yr old mother ( non diabetic ) who spends her days drinking bottles of sherry , chain smoking fags & eating bar after bar of chocolate, apparently she should of been gone years ago but mentally is as sharp as ever , but does have mobility issues
I’m diabetic & all I hear is my dad would of had the chocolate pudding ( nurse ) , my husbands the worst diabetic you could meet ( nurse again ) , on my recent diabetic review the lady said you’re no problem , I’m just dreading the rest of the patients today
Yesterday in hospital the nurse said what are your b/ s normally , 5/6 , yes we hear that all the time & there normally 20 , checked mine & was 6
I’ve mates who’ve had amputations because of diabetis , I don’t want that so although not perfect I do try to be as sensible as possible , 62 , not old / old I guess , but getting on , I think it’s just the individual , I’ve mates with heart issues who still have to have there daily fix of greggs bacon / sausage / omelette rolls , pastry sausage rolls , donuts , large latte etc

And not a full stop in sight.

I know , but that’s why I drive a lorry for a living , no real need to be able to spell , string a literate sentence together , as long as I can read the sport , watch porn & scratch my hairy ass I’m ok
I do apologise though , I can understand your frustration , daughter often says dad can you write that in English when I txt / wat - sap
I’ll go back to reading instead of posting , apologises again