Could Kvyat have won?
Discussion
Sat perusing thoughts of the GP yesterday and wondered if Kvyat could have won if he was still in the RB?
Verstappen drove very well and kept Raikkonen at bay, but was this helped by the fact that it is quite difficult to pass in F1 now? It looked like the RB had the speed where it mattered (last section of the track which gave Verstappen a gap on the straight) too, and this must have helped. Could Kvyat have done the same job?
Hats off to Verstappen though and he drove without fault under pressure. I think Ricciardo's dicky strategy helped.
Verstappen drove very well and kept Raikkonen at bay, but was this helped by the fact that it is quite difficult to pass in F1 now? It looked like the RB had the speed where it mattered (last section of the track which gave Verstappen a gap on the straight) too, and this must have helped. Could Kvyat have done the same job?
Hats off to Verstappen though and he drove without fault under pressure. I think Ricciardo's dicky strategy helped.
funkyrobot said:
I think Ricciardo's dicky strategy helped.
The thing is, I suspect that the two stopper was the risky strategy as trying to hold off faster cars on seriously worn tyres at the end of the race would have been nigh on impossible.The three stopped SHOULD have resulted in a much faster Vettel and Ricci - but for reasons which are most unclear to me they pitted them far too early in the race.
Yes I think he could have. Verstappen drove a solid, unspectacular race which any of the drivers on the grid should have been able to. All credit to the boy but the praise he is getting for holding off Raikkonen is a bit over the top, it's his job to not crack and make mistakes under pressure. Kvyat must be raging!
I believe Kvyat could have won. All credit to Verstappen for not cracking under the pressure and delivering, but this victory didn't require any of his late-braking passes and great racecraft, it came from very fortunate circumstance and then holding it together to the end once he found himself out in front. I think half, if not most of the drivers on the grid could have won this race in an RB12 on a two-stop strategy.
I also have a strong suspicion that if Ferrari had three-stopped Kimi rather than Vettel, and it had been Seb right behind Verstappen for 20-odd laps, he’d have been able to pass the Red Bull without much bother. The issue Raikkonen had was that the Red Bull was quicker than the Ferrari through the twisty final sector, allowing Max to keep just far enough ahead of Kimi on the home straight to avoid being passed.
Vettel is the master of twisty, low-speed exit corners; his advantage here definitely isn't as high as it was in the blown diffuser days, but he's still the king in this area. I think he’d have been able to carry enough speed through the final chicane and final turn to get him close enough to Max to make a pass at the end of the straight.
I also have a strong suspicion that if Ferrari had three-stopped Kimi rather than Vettel, and it had been Seb right behind Verstappen for 20-odd laps, he’d have been able to pass the Red Bull without much bother. The issue Raikkonen had was that the Red Bull was quicker than the Ferrari through the twisty final sector, allowing Max to keep just far enough ahead of Kimi on the home straight to avoid being passed.
Vettel is the master of twisty, low-speed exit corners; his advantage here definitely isn't as high as it was in the blown diffuser days, but he's still the king in this area. I think he’d have been able to carry enough speed through the final chicane and final turn to get him close enough to Max to make a pass at the end of the straight.
Whilst it is impossible to tell, I feel very cynical about this - probably because it is Red Bull. RB made a very odd decision to sacrifice Daniel Ricciardo's track position at this circuit to put him on a 3 stopper. As it took place I said to the missus that it was now Max's to lose, and the likely column inches of debit/youngest/Dutch driver would benefit the drinks outfit more than Daniel winning. Cynical mind indeed.
I think Daniil Kvyat would have got the rough end of the RB split strategy and would have been on three stops and lose track position if Max was still in the Toro Rosso. Something just tells me that they would not have given him the treatment that they gave Max this weekend - no evidence, just a hunch.
I feel that DR would have been left on a 2 stopper with track position with DK on the three stopper. The question then is would one of the Fezzas have won as different driver led tyre deg came into play.
The unanswerable question I am afraid. We will never know.
I think Daniil Kvyat would have got the rough end of the RB split strategy and would have been on three stops and lose track position if Max was still in the Toro Rosso. Something just tells me that they would not have given him the treatment that they gave Max this weekend - no evidence, just a hunch.
I feel that DR would have been left on a 2 stopper with track position with DK on the three stopper. The question then is would one of the Fezzas have won as different driver led tyre deg came into play.
The unanswerable question I am afraid. We will never know.
I think so, if he could've held off Kimi - which I think he could have, as it was less a case of Max being a brilliant defender and more that Kimi just couldn't get close enough to overtake on a tricky track to do so.
Max drove well, but it wasn't the star-making performance so many are making it out to be. He kept a cool head, which was admirable, but it fell into his lap a bit. Still, he did convert his golden opportunity.
Max drove well, but it wasn't the star-making performance so many are making it out to be. He kept a cool head, which was admirable, but it fell into his lap a bit. Still, he did convert his golden opportunity.
Mr_Yogi said:
That's what I was thinking, would have even qualified above the Ferrari's?
My original comment was tongue in cheek, but this did cross my mind too. Max is the real deal. It's been clear since last year. I'm not up on all the stats but I don't think Kvyat has run Ricciardo that close in quali. It's all 'what if?' though. Kvyat could have taken it home. I believe he actually got fastest lap on fresh tyres and light fuel towards end of race, so he had pace. So did Sainz however - the real tell will be how Kvyat goes against Sainz over rest of season. It was tight between him and Max.
It does feel like he was somewhat gifted the position through various choices, I don't believe they sacrified RIC I can see the 3 stopper being the better strategy but only if you had the cars at the back being the ones driven by drivers who could cut through VET and RIC where the obvious choices for that especially given their position on track, lets be honest you can't see Kimi ploughing through traffic for a win, hard to see but it felt like if Kimi pushed more earlier he'd have pressed max harder.
The thing that gets me is that when Maldonado won this race in a Williams it was all luck but this weekend it was all about the new wonderkid. In reality, did Max do anything more or less than Pastor did in 2012?
ETA - Other than being 18 and in his first race in the car
ETA - Other than being 18 and in his first race in the car
Edited by stemll on Tuesday 17th May 19:58
stemll said:
The thing that gets me is that when Maldonado won this race in a Williams it was all luck but this weekend it was all about the new wonderkid. In reality, did Max do anything more or less than Pastor did in 2012?
ETA - Other than being 18 and in his first race in the car
I think doing it in a car he'd not raced in before takes some doing. There was also pressure to prove RB had made the right move in promoting him. Raikonnen was there to take advantage if Max made even the slightest mistake, but he was rock solid. I don't think it's fair to take any credit away from him.ETA - Other than being 18 and in his first race in the car
Edited by stemll on Tuesday 17th May 19:58
I Don't think so. Kvyat makes to manny mistakes for one. Second he can't manage his tires like Verstappen. AND he drove a very poorly race in the toro rosso he was not even close to Saintz. The qualifying and race was very poorly with his experience IMHO. First time in the new car for Verstappen he drove a good/ solid race. First time in the new Toro Rosso for Kvyat it was a poor race. With his experience he should have done much better/ closer or better then Saintz. But he didn't so i don't think he could have one.
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