Frameless windows - more problematic?
Discussion
Following on from the electric windows thread, how come Alfa couldn't get one that stayed aligned in the old GTV yet I've never had a problem in 8 years of combined Impreza ownership (or for that matter with an MX5). I'd have thought that over time it would be hard to keep the window lined up without the benefits of a sealed frame guiding it but clearly some manufacturers do it better than others...
I know that most cars with that style of window now move down slightly on opening but does this really give better leak protection? I've never had any water come through the Scooby's seal.
I know that most cars with that style of window now move down slightly on opening but does this really give better leak protection? I've never had any water come through the Scooby's seal.
mikeyr said:
I know that most cars with that style of window now move down slightly on opening but does this really give better leak protection? I've never had any water come through the Scooby's seal.
I think it has more to do with wind noise than water leaks. At higher speeds side window glass tends to get sucked outwards by reduced air pressure and you get horrible noise from the resultant gap between glass and seal. By raising the window into a channel on the roof the problem is avoided - but you can't open the door. Hence the need for a slight drop when the door is opened. 
Ozzie Osmond said:
I think it has more to do with wind noise than water leaks. At higher speeds side window glass tends to get sucked outwards by reduced air pressure and you get horrible noise from the resultant gap between glass and seal. By raising the window into a channel on the roof the problem is avoided - but you can't open the door. Hence the need for a slight drop when the door is opened.
There is also the fact that modern cars are so well sealed that when you close the door, the air displaced by the door has nowhere to go, so you end up compressing the volume of air inside the car, which requires a fair bit of effort. By having that little gap at the top, the air can escape, equalising the pressure, making it easier to shut the door.The Crack Fox said:
Both my cars have frameless windows. The BMW's occasionally freeze on very cold days if left outside.
Occasionally? My 1 coupe would stick every day the temp was below 0, and despite scraping along the bottom first would lose all it's one-touch settings and need to be reset every time because it would get to the "closed" position and then open itself again. Stupidest bit of design ever - there should be a heater element or something along the top of the door.Thankfully the Z4 doesn't suffer this problem, as the top of the window isn't recessed
TameRacingDriver said:
Well I will say it was quite irritating to not be able to open the door of my old e36 at times in the winter.
The single biggest fear/problem.
Plenty of deicer along the window rubber, and around the "frame" before pulling the handle of the door ....... In a particularly harsh winter's morning with my E46, the car had frozen solid, and I chose to slide in through the boot, and run the engine to defrost the car rather than risk snapping the glass in two.
The Crack Fox said:
Both my cars have frameless windows. The BMW's occasionally freeze on very cold days if left outside. The MX-5's are fine all year round. No major problem really, doorframes are ugly anyway.
Both of my cars' windows are frameless too. The Integras windows are adjustable for angle to make sure they sit right. My drivers side needs a slight tweak, occaisionally when you close the door the very top rear edge of the glass doesn't quite tuck under the seal. If you push it to with the glass it sits fine, though.
I've yet to try the BMW in cold weather having only just bought it.
Does anyone wipe a thin layer of Vaseline or something similar on the rubbers to stop the glass sticking in winter?
TameRacingDriver said:
Well I will say it was quite irritating to not be able to open the door of my old e36 at times in the winter.
I only had that a couple of times on mine, not really that irritating.What was damnably irritating was once finding that the passenger door lock froze open.
Mx5guy said:
I'm a bit puzzled by how many people are having problems with the door freezing in winter. I'm living in Norway and it gets down to -20 where I am, yet I only had the problem once with the MX-5 (and that was the door lock, not the glass).
I think that the problem we see in the UK with things like this, and with the ice on the roads to an extent, is that the temperature with fluctuate above and below freezing during the day and night respectively, and our winter's air is very "wet" with moisture.I'm speculating that the air temperature staying consistently way below zero for many months is less problematic than our winters where the roads/cars/paths/air/pipes etc are constantly fluctuating above and below zero on a 24 hour cycle.
mat205125 said:
Mx5guy said:
I'm a bit puzzled by how many people are having problems with the door freezing in winter. I'm living in Norway and it gets down to -20 where I am, yet I only had the problem once with the MX-5 (and that was the door lock, not the glass).
I think that the problem we see in the UK with things like this, and with the ice on the roads to an extent, is that the temperature with fluctuate above and below freezing during the day and night respectively, and our winter's air is very "wet" with moisture.I'm speculating that the air temperature staying consistently way below zero for many months is less problematic than our winters where the roads/cars/paths/air/pipes etc are constantly fluctuating above and below zero on a 24 hour cycle.
A friend with a Golf had a lot of problems with her doors freezing shut though (framed doors). She used some silicon thing which seemed to work, although needed reapplying every so often.
neil_bolton said:
But they do look awesome.
Agree - but only when the window is down and the door is open! Guess it's more that the styling of the rest of the car can be cleaner; more glass = better looking?Have any cars ever had a semi frameless design - eg with just a horizontal frames? Closest I can think of is a Toyota Sera but that doesn't count because it's all odd!
Frik said:
Having frameless doors can make getting into a 3dr car in a narrow parking space much easier, especially if you can wind down the window before you get in...
Yup - and getting out of the car in a tight garage.I haven't had too many freezing issues (e36 and e46). The main difference I found was in road noise - particularly going from an e46 saloon to a Coupe.
They are too cool though - I'd put up with a lot more than wind noise to have them
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