JLR - How many new models?!
Discussion
Driving up the M6 through the Midlands yesterday and heard a 'come join the team at Jaguar Land Rover' advert on the radio.
Went on about the prestige brands and so on and then said that they had grand plans with 40 new models in the next 5 years.
I'm sure it said 40, and not 14. Even if it was 14, that's still a lot - but 40?!?!
Surely there's not enough of a market for those 2 brands to release that many cars.
4 perhaps - but it wasn't 4 that the nice lady voice on the radio said.
Or does the Jaguar XF-S 2.7d and Jaguar XF-S 3.0 V6 count as two separate models??
Went on about the prestige brands and so on and then said that they had grand plans with 40 new models in the next 5 years.
I'm sure it said 40, and not 14. Even if it was 14, that's still a lot - but 40?!?!
Surely there's not enough of a market for those 2 brands to release that many cars.
4 perhaps - but it wasn't 4 that the nice lady voice on the radio said.
Or does the Jaguar XF-S 2.7d and Jaguar XF-S 3.0 V6 count as two separate models??
sider said:
Surely not!
So in reality, it's probably a new Landy of some description, and a new X-type equivalent, and then the XF estate?
But in fairness what is a model?So in reality, it's probably a new Landy of some description, and a new X-type equivalent, and then the XF estate?
For example the Evoque can be had in 3 or 5 door versions and from base model to top model pretty much doubles in price. Therefore is it really a single model, or a model range consisting of many different models?
Same with a Defender, is 130 double cab really the same as a county station wagon 90? Personally I'd say no, they are separate models within a model range.
300bhp/ton said:
But in fairness what is a model?
For example the Evoque can be had in 3 or 5 door versions and from base model to top model pretty much doubles in price. Therefore is it really a single model, or a model range consisting of many different models?
Same with a Defender, is 130 double cab really the same as a county station wagon 90? Personally I'd say no, they are separate models within a model range.
I remember Ford saying that there were something like 4,500 different variations of Transit available on sale.For example the Evoque can be had in 3 or 5 door versions and from base model to top model pretty much doubles in price. Therefore is it really a single model, or a model range consisting of many different models?
Same with a Defender, is 130 double cab really the same as a county station wagon 90? Personally I'd say no, they are separate models within a model range.
I suppose a medium roof LWB with a tail-lift and 13 seats is different to a med roof LWB without a tail-lift as 15 seats etc.
I think the Transits have different power outputs too - depending on who buys them and what they're shifting.
davepoth said:
New Landy, new Rangy, XF estate, X-Type thingy, I guess a replacement for the XK is on the cards, and so on, and so forth.
I keep seeing an A3/1-series type rival on the front of Auto Express (for what it's worth).Think there's a market. As someone in their late 20s, a Jag does appeal to me. Like them all to be honest but think i'd look a bit silly in an XJ or a beigey colour XF.
XK's are nice but sometimes think a GT-R or 911 would suit someone my sort of age bracket a bit better.
If i won the Lottery, i'd definately take a look at Jaguar.
sider said:
I remember Ford saying that there were something like 4,500 different variations of Transit available on sale.
I suppose a medium roof LWB with a tail-lift and 13 seats is different to a med roof LWB without a tail-lift as 15 seats etc.
I think the Transits have different power outputs too - depending on who buys them and what they're shifting.
I don't think you'll find a clear definition anywhere sadly.I suppose a medium roof LWB with a tail-lift and 13 seats is different to a med roof LWB without a tail-lift as 15 seats etc.
I think the Transits have different power outputs too - depending on who buys them and what they're shifting.
But I suppose ponder this:
-Is a 330d a different model to a 330i?
-Is a 330d saloon a different model to a 330d estate?
-Is an M3 3 Series a different model from a 318 3 Series?
-Is a Lotus Exige (basically a Lotus Elise fix roof coupe with a different name) a different model to a Lotus Elise?
40 models/variations?
They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
esvcg said:
40 models/variations?
They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
So you don't think the business model that has allowed, VAG, BMW & Merc to be hugely profitable is a good one to follow?They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
Fittster said:
esvcg said:
40 models/variations?
They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
So you don't think the business model that has allowed, VAG, BMW & Merc to be hugely profitable is a good one to follow?They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
esvcg said:
No, the distance between these and JLR is far, far too wide in terms of cash reserves, existing platform technology, infrastructure etc.
An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
The X-Type was actually a very successful model overall. You don't have to be the market leader to be a success.An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
300bhp/ton said:
esvcg said:
No, the distance between these and JLR is far, far too wide in terms of cash reserves, existing platform technology, infrastructure etc.
An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
The X-Type was actually a very successful model overall. You don't have to be the market leader to be a success.An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
yes in terms of sales, but in the end was bad for the image of jaguar, esp towards the last years it was made.
the americans hated it. I still think the XF should always be considered their entry model, moving up to xf/xk and FFRR.
I wouldn't like to see another flop like the x-type in terms of brand desperation.
esvcg said:
No, the distance between these and JLR is far, far too wide in terms of cash reserves, existing platform technology, infrastructure etc.
An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
The X-type was a product of Jaguar under Ford ownership. I think things have changed significantly since then.An example would be the X-type as a 3 series rival, which didn't work as jaguar expected.
The new 3 series is pretty much perfect, and JLR would have to bet the farm, just to at best, match it. By which time, a newer better 3er would be launched... It's a losing battle in mainstream execs from the start for JLR.
There is much more mark-up to be made in high value, very individual products, and personally I think they should use a porsche, ferrari type business model, rather then trying to chase 3 series sales.
I think with Tata's investment/ownership Jaguar Land Rover have the money to compete. I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results, and it certainly seems that the current range of Land Rovers, at least, are selling quite well. Probably Jaguars too, based on how many XFs I see. The plants themselves are perfectly capable of matching the quality and efficiency of the competitors you mention.
aizvara said:
The X-type was a product of Jaguar under Ford ownership. I think things have changed significantly since then.
I think with Tata's investment/ownership Jaguar Land Rover have the money to compete. I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results, and it certainly seems that the current range of Land Rovers, at least, are selling quite well. Probably Jaguars too, based on how many XFs I see. The plants themselves are perfectly capable of matching the quality and efficiency of the competitors you mention.
...I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results... famous last words!I think with Tata's investment/ownership Jaguar Land Rover have the money to compete. I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results, and it certainly seems that the current range of Land Rovers, at least, are selling quite well. Probably Jaguars too, based on how many XFs I see. The plants themselves are perfectly capable of matching the quality and efficiency of the competitors you mention.
Fittster said:
esvcg said:
40 models/variations?
They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
So you don't think the business model that has allowed, VAG, BMW & Merc to be hugely profitable is a good one to follow?They'd eventually end up competing with themselves which is a never good idea, as BL will show you.
Quality not quantity is key for a high end, british branded product line. Let the yanks, japs and koreans stack-em-high.
JLR must concentrate on good quality product and properly engineered solutions, which they have now, but with lots of (expensive) options to individualise to the customers needs, rather than churn out variation after variation after variation.
Jaguar currently focuses mainly on styling, although they're latest AJ133 is bloody good. About 13 years ago they were on the right path- with the AJV8 engine and the high Bhp/litre and high BMEP Jaguar V6, the development of the X600 sports car and X type R but this was all either cancelled or the projects were simply nickel and dimed.
They have some way to go to make the transition into a more long term engineering focused organisation or else they'll continue to focus on styling changes and short term profits.
Marquis Rex said:
The reason why the Germans business model has been succesful is because they're not short-term profit focused and look into nurturing high technology brands with a focus on engineering.
Jaguar currently focuses mainly on styling, although they're latest AJ133 is bloody good. About 13 years ago they were on the right path- with the AJV8 engine and the high Bhp/litre and high BMEP Jaguar V6, the development of the X600 sports car and X type R but this was all either cancelled or the projects were simply nickel and dimed.
They have some way to go to make the transition into a more long term engineering focused organisation or else they'll continue to focus on styling changes and short term profits.
Eh? JLR are building an engine plant in Wolverhampton now, aren't they? And they have a large R&D facility in the midlands, too.Jaguar currently focuses mainly on styling, although they're latest AJ133 is bloody good. About 13 years ago they were on the right path- with the AJV8 engine and the high Bhp/litre and high BMEP Jaguar V6, the development of the X600 sports car and X type R but this was all either cancelled or the projects were simply nickel and dimed.
They have some way to go to make the transition into a more long term engineering focused organisation or else they'll continue to focus on styling changes and short term profits.
esvcg said:
...I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results... famous last words!
Are you implying that their current strategy is not working then? Or do you believe it is about to fail?I'd say that record profits in general, and high sales of the Evoque specifically, speak for themselves.
I fail to see why creating a range of new models is a bad thing.
aizvara said:
Marquis Rex said:
The reason why the Germans business model has been succesful is because they're not short-term profit focused and look into nurturing high technology brands with a focus on engineering.
Jaguar currently focuses mainly on styling, although they're latest AJ133 is bloody good. About 13 years ago they were on the right path- with the AJV8 engine and the high Bhp/litre and high BMEP Jaguar V6, the development of the X600 sports car and X type R but this was all either cancelled or the projects were simply nickel and dimed.
They have some way to go to make the transition into a more long term engineering focused organisation or else they'll continue to focus on styling changes and short term profits.
Eh? JLR are building an engine plant in Wolverhampton now, aren't they? And they have a large R&D facility in the midlands, too.Jaguar currently focuses mainly on styling, although they're latest AJ133 is bloody good. About 13 years ago they were on the right path- with the AJV8 engine and the high Bhp/litre and high BMEP Jaguar V6, the development of the X600 sports car and X type R but this was all either cancelled or the projects were simply nickel and dimed.
They have some way to go to make the transition into a more long term engineering focused organisation or else they'll continue to focus on styling changes and short term profits.
esvcg said:
...I don't think they would waste it with a strategy which does not produce results... famous last words!
aizvara said:
Are you implying that their current strategy is not working then? Or do you believe it is about to fail?
I'd say that record profits in general, and high sales of the Evoque specifically, speak for themselves.
I fail to see why creating a range of new models is a bad thing.
Time will tell I'd say that record profits in general, and high sales of the Evoque specifically, speak for themselves.
I fail to see why creating a range of new models is a bad thing.
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