2 into 1 what car
Discussion
My current situation is I have a 530iA touring (E39) for my daily drive, and a TVR Cerbera 4.2 in the garage for a bit of weekend fun. Recently I have come to the conclusion that I'm not getting best VFM out of my choice of cars. Both cars are great, but I'm spending far more time in the BMW. Family trips in the TVR are not really possible, whilst in theory the Cerb has rear seats, getting my 4 year old in the back and my wife in the front results in both of them being uncomfortable, so we end up taking the 5 everywhere and the TVR sits in the garage quietly planning the next scheme to rape my wallet.
Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the money I have spent on the TVR, it is truly a fantastic car, a dream car realised no less; but there is certainly an element of 'don't meet your heroes', and I don't think I use the thing enough to justify keeping it. It is actually painful to type that, but I have to admit it is true... I can count on one hand the times the three of us have been out in the car together in the 3 years I have owned it.
So... The plan is to get rid of both cars and find one that will do the job of both. I need something fast and fun enough to make me smile (75% of the TVR fun), but something that is comfortable enough for my 100 mile a day commute, and big enough to carry wife and daughter out on family days (50% of what the 5 does).
The rules are:
Approx £10K budget (more than £10k would require a very low level of depreciation)
No diesel
Sounds good (6+ cylinders)
Usable rear seats and boot (e.g. big enough to go camping in Europe with a wife and 4 yr old for a week or two)
Manual or Auto, but the Auto box needs to be nice to use
Running costs need to be comparable to a 5 series and TVR combined - so in other words it's not really an issue
No 2 car combos - I do not want to do my commute in a diesel econo-
-box and have a garage-queen sat at home unused
Reasonable reliability - the car will be well maintained, but I do appreciate performance often equals more problems than a boring car, but it does need to get me to work, so nothing ~too~ highly strung, or 500 mile service intervals - i.e. no rally reps (been there done that)
The interior needs to be a relatively nice place to be, so no stripped out racers
So far I have considered:
Jag S-Type R - current favourite - quite rare, so hard to find a good one
Merc C32 - worried about tinworm
Merc E55 - REALLY worried about tinworm
Jag XJR - a bit too floaty to be real fun? - on the upside cheap to buy in x308 guise
BMW M5 E39 - Not sure it is different enough from my 530 - performance aside - inside it's just a fancy E39
Vauxhall Monaro - Is the interior a bit low-rent? Are they really that fast?
BMW M3 - too small in the back? Would I pull up next to an M5 and think - 'I should have got one of them'?
Maserati 3200 - Too small in the back, too highly strung, impossible to find somewhere to get it serviced, more financially ruinous than both my current cars - but just look at it!!!!
So over to you guys... Interested in experiences of any / all of the above, or suggestions for something else.
Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the money I have spent on the TVR, it is truly a fantastic car, a dream car realised no less; but there is certainly an element of 'don't meet your heroes', and I don't think I use the thing enough to justify keeping it. It is actually painful to type that, but I have to admit it is true... I can count on one hand the times the three of us have been out in the car together in the 3 years I have owned it.
So... The plan is to get rid of both cars and find one that will do the job of both. I need something fast and fun enough to make me smile (75% of the TVR fun), but something that is comfortable enough for my 100 mile a day commute, and big enough to carry wife and daughter out on family days (50% of what the 5 does).
The rules are:
Approx £10K budget (more than £10k would require a very low level of depreciation)
No diesel
Sounds good (6+ cylinders)
Usable rear seats and boot (e.g. big enough to go camping in Europe with a wife and 4 yr old for a week or two)
Manual or Auto, but the Auto box needs to be nice to use
Running costs need to be comparable to a 5 series and TVR combined - so in other words it's not really an issue
No 2 car combos - I do not want to do my commute in a diesel econo-
-box and have a garage-queen sat at home unusedReasonable reliability - the car will be well maintained, but I do appreciate performance often equals more problems than a boring car, but it does need to get me to work, so nothing ~too~ highly strung, or 500 mile service intervals - i.e. no rally reps (been there done that)
The interior needs to be a relatively nice place to be, so no stripped out racers
So far I have considered:
Jag S-Type R - current favourite - quite rare, so hard to find a good one
Merc C32 - worried about tinworm
Merc E55 - REALLY worried about tinworm
Jag XJR - a bit too floaty to be real fun? - on the upside cheap to buy in x308 guise
BMW M5 E39 - Not sure it is different enough from my 530 - performance aside - inside it's just a fancy E39
Vauxhall Monaro - Is the interior a bit low-rent? Are they really that fast?
BMW M3 - too small in the back? Would I pull up next to an M5 and think - 'I should have got one of them'?
Maserati 3200 - Too small in the back, too highly strung, impossible to find somewhere to get it serviced, more financially ruinous than both my current cars - but just look at it!!!!
So over to you guys... Interested in experiences of any / all of the above, or suggestions for something else.
If this is still for sale it could tick a few boxes.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/bmw-e46-m3-touring-yes-touri...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/bmw-e46-m3-touring-yes-touri...
C32 - awesome cars in a straight line but not very inspiring through the twisties
E46 M3- fantastic to drive not major money to maintain either ( this would be my choice)
E39 M5- are fortunes to run and look dated now, although a very good car if you find a good example.
3200- maybe an 11k car but it'll easily cost 5k to keep it on the road for a year.
Monaro- would be my second choice as they're a truely brilliant car to drive although not for some.
E46 M3- fantastic to drive not major money to maintain either ( this would be my choice)
E39 M5- are fortunes to run and look dated now, although a very good car if you find a good example.
3200- maybe an 11k car but it'll easily cost 5k to keep it on the road for a year.
Monaro- would be my second choice as they're a truely brilliant car to drive although not for some.
Not sure about the converted M3 touring - I'd be worried about the quality of the conversion
RS4 - Can you really buy them for £10K? Wow, I'm off to look in the classified! What are they like to drive?
Thx for the other comments, I hear what you are saying about the 3200, and I know it just doesn't fit the criteria, but just look at it...!
Not much love for the S-Type R so far...
RS4 - Can you really buy them for £10K? Wow, I'm off to look in the classified! What are they like to drive?
Thx for the other comments, I hear what you are saying about the 3200, and I know it just doesn't fit the criteria, but just look at it...!
Not much love for the S-Type R so far...
The bg problem is going to be finding anything to replace the bespoke feel of the Cerbera. You'll find plenty of fast, practical super saloons, but they tend to be a bit clincial. For that matter, compared to a TVR, any production car is likely to be.
With that in mind, what about an MG ZT 260? You might laugh at the idea of replacing a Cerb with an old Rover, but it has that leftfield appeal that the quantifiably superior European alternatives lack.
Or what about sticking with the coupe idea and finding a really good Porsche 928? Four usable seats and probably no harder to look after than a Cerbera.
Hmm, on a different, but equally left field note, how much Syline does £10k buy you? That would be different, although I can appreciate rice rockets aren't to everyone's taste.
Yes, they're all a bit random, but my worry is that any logical, sensible response will seem a bit ordinary after a Tiv.
With that in mind, what about an MG ZT 260? You might laugh at the idea of replacing a Cerb with an old Rover, but it has that leftfield appeal that the quantifiably superior European alternatives lack.
Or what about sticking with the coupe idea and finding a really good Porsche 928? Four usable seats and probably no harder to look after than a Cerbera.
Hmm, on a different, but equally left field note, how much Syline does £10k buy you? That would be different, although I can appreciate rice rockets aren't to everyone's taste.
Yes, they're all a bit random, but my worry is that any logical, sensible response will seem a bit ordinary after a Tiv.
skoff said:
RS4 - Can you really buy them for £10K? Wow, I'm off to look in the classified! What are they like to drive?
Well you actually said you would spend a little more for something that wouldn't depreciate too much! around £12-14k in reality.Drive wise they are a little understeery at the limit but fantastic point to point cars on the road when you are in the mood. The rest of the time you have a well appointed estate car with a lot of understated presence. Running costs can get a bit scary at times but no more than any of the other cars on your list.
You say your current favourite is the S-Type R, but I think the PH consensus is that the E39 M5 is a far superior car in almost every way (and certainly in the driving enjoyment department).
Though 25,000 miles a year in any of those cars is likely to be quite painful on the wallet, but I guess you're prepared for that.
Though 25,000 miles a year in any of those cars is likely to be quite painful on the wallet, but I guess you're prepared for that.
Chris71 said:
The bg problem is going to be finding anything to replace the bespoke feel of the Cerbera. You'll find plenty of fast, practical super saloons, but they tend to be a bit clincial. For that matter, compared to a TVR, any production car is likely to be.
This.I did a similar move when I had my Cerb 4.2 and found kids and work pressures were meaning it was getting less and less attention. I hung on as long as I could, but then bowed to the inevitable and went hunting for an alternative. I ended up with an E39 M5, reasoning that sub-5sec to 60, four doors, big boot, rave reviews, what's not to like?
The most horrendously boring and anodyne car. Horrible. It's not a fair summation of the car, simply a matter that everything is relative - if you're used to "enjoying" the performance and general sprightliness of the Cerb, ANYTHING after that (bar another TVR) is going to feel dull and lifeless. Yes it could be hustled at frankly astonishing pace for a nearly 2-ton car, but that was about it: no fuss, no drama.
I'd have one as a shopping / hack car quite happily, but as a "fun car" replacement or substitute, never.
I sold it six month later, and bought a Saab 9-5 Aero as a work hack and a Chimaera 450 which has since sucked up Cerbera levels of investment in tweaking and tuning
I know you asked for no 2-car solutions, and whilst it felt silly to have two cars, it was far less of a compromise as it allowed the two to be fit for their individual purposes rather than trying to shoehorn it all into one chassis and then being disappointed.Having said all of that, I'd look at either upgrading the 5, or doing as you say and combining the two into one - how about a complete change of feel, something like a Range Rover?
Edited by RedLeicester on Monday 28th March 13:06
What about a Subaru Legacy Spec B Estate?
Available in both Manual and Auto , lovely 6 cylinder 3ltr ( 245bhp ), and sound so sweet.
Goes and sounds lovely but can handle all the family gear
Available within your budget.
I've just changed my car for an Outback 3.0 ( same engine /gearbox etc ) and it is SO nice compared to the Flat 4 of my Impreza .
I know it's no-where near a glorious as the 4.2 V8 in your Tiv but give it some thought.
Hope that helps,
Steve
Available in both Manual and Auto , lovely 6 cylinder 3ltr ( 245bhp ), and sound so sweet.
Goes and sounds lovely but can handle all the family gear
Available within your budget.
I've just changed my car for an Outback 3.0 ( same engine /gearbox etc ) and it is SO nice compared to the Flat 4 of my Impreza .
I know it's no-where near a glorious as the 4.2 V8 in your Tiv but give it some thought.
Hope that helps,
Steve
I'm liking the left-field suggestions, good food for thought.
The Cerbera is a hard act to follow, and I accept that whatever I get will not compare, I have driven enough other 'fast' cars to know that.
I am going to be compromising getting just the one car, and most likely will be bored in a few months time, but the reality is anything that I can't get the family in is just not going to get used. I love spending time with my TVR, but I love spending time with my family more. There, I've said it. I know I need to MTFU but sadly my wife won't let me
The M5/Alpina B10(and possibly M3) is easily the most 'sensible', 'think with your head', 'take the PH advice' solution, hence its entry onto the list. BUT I have already lived with a 5 series for 2 years and 50k miles, I am just not sure that it's going to feel special/different enough to the 530 barge I currently drive. I reckon the performance will be great, but as has been said by RedLeicester any 5 series is going to make you remote from the performance. When I had my Evo 6, I had a drive of an E34 M5, and I got out of it and wondered what all the fuss was about, it was just a noisier, slightly faster 5 series. I could live with that had I not been in a 5 series for 2 years already. I will test drive one though, maybe I will be won over...
I am ready for big running costs. The current fleet is budgeted at £3k a year for the Cerb, and £1K for the BMW (excluding insurance & fuel). The BMW has thrown a few big bills at me (like a gearbox rebuild and a new radiator every 12 months to name but 2) so I have been over the £1k each year so far. Factor into the equation, two lots of insurance & road tax, and my yearly budget for one car is quite healthy.
I have never driven a Range Rover, I expected them to be great big wobbly jellies that would roll over into a ditch you when show them a corner - have I missed the point? I would never, ever, take the thing off-road, though I suppose I could park it on our front lawn - does that count? Do they make a fast one? I wouldn't know where to start, I'd need serious education as to what to look for.
The RS4 at £12-14K is getting me a bit excited, always liked them - but they would be very leggy examples at that end of the price bracket. I'd be worried that, say I bought one with 120k+ on the clock, when I came to sell it a couple of years later with 170k on the clock it wouldn't have retained any of its value? £14k would be pushing the finances on purchase price (since I have spent most of my £3K yearly Cerb maintenance budget this year already), so I'd like to think I wasn't just pouring money down the drain.
I am afraid as an ex Evo driver I have an irrational aversion to the Imprezza - they were 'the enemy' for too long. Great cars, but, well, they aren't an Evo. No offence intended to current or past owners, I know it is unfounded prejudice. Sorry.
The MG Rover falls into the same bracket as the Monaro - I know Top Gear loved them, but I don't really pay much mind to what they say. Are they actually any good? I have never driven either, but 260 odd BHP doesn't sound that much to me, my 530 is 230 or thereabouts and that's pretty slow. Are they nice inside? I'm guessing either would be relatively cheap to buy/run so an attractive financial proposition.
6 series, hmm there's a thought, again worth looking at, I suspect the same applies to the 6 as to the RS4 on mileages and values.
Keep 'am coming, interesting answers so far...
The Cerbera is a hard act to follow, and I accept that whatever I get will not compare, I have driven enough other 'fast' cars to know that.
I am going to be compromising getting just the one car, and most likely will be bored in a few months time, but the reality is anything that I can't get the family in is just not going to get used. I love spending time with my TVR, but I love spending time with my family more. There, I've said it. I know I need to MTFU but sadly my wife won't let me
The M5/Alpina B10(and possibly M3) is easily the most 'sensible', 'think with your head', 'take the PH advice' solution, hence its entry onto the list. BUT I have already lived with a 5 series for 2 years and 50k miles, I am just not sure that it's going to feel special/different enough to the 530 barge I currently drive. I reckon the performance will be great, but as has been said by RedLeicester any 5 series is going to make you remote from the performance. When I had my Evo 6, I had a drive of an E34 M5, and I got out of it and wondered what all the fuss was about, it was just a noisier, slightly faster 5 series. I could live with that had I not been in a 5 series for 2 years already. I will test drive one though, maybe I will be won over...
I am ready for big running costs. The current fleet is budgeted at £3k a year for the Cerb, and £1K for the BMW (excluding insurance & fuel). The BMW has thrown a few big bills at me (like a gearbox rebuild and a new radiator every 12 months to name but 2) so I have been over the £1k each year so far. Factor into the equation, two lots of insurance & road tax, and my yearly budget for one car is quite healthy.
I have never driven a Range Rover, I expected them to be great big wobbly jellies that would roll over into a ditch you when show them a corner - have I missed the point? I would never, ever, take the thing off-road, though I suppose I could park it on our front lawn - does that count? Do they make a fast one? I wouldn't know where to start, I'd need serious education as to what to look for.
The RS4 at £12-14K is getting me a bit excited, always liked them - but they would be very leggy examples at that end of the price bracket. I'd be worried that, say I bought one with 120k+ on the clock, when I came to sell it a couple of years later with 170k on the clock it wouldn't have retained any of its value? £14k would be pushing the finances on purchase price (since I have spent most of my £3K yearly Cerb maintenance budget this year already), so I'd like to think I wasn't just pouring money down the drain.
I am afraid as an ex Evo driver I have an irrational aversion to the Imprezza - they were 'the enemy' for too long. Great cars, but, well, they aren't an Evo. No offence intended to current or past owners, I know it is unfounded prejudice. Sorry.
The MG Rover falls into the same bracket as the Monaro - I know Top Gear loved them, but I don't really pay much mind to what they say. Are they actually any good? I have never driven either, but 260 odd BHP doesn't sound that much to me, my 530 is 230 or thereabouts and that's pretty slow. Are they nice inside? I'm guessing either would be relatively cheap to buy/run so an attractive financial proposition.
6 series, hmm there's a thought, again worth looking at, I suspect the same applies to the 6 as to the RS4 on mileages and values.
Keep 'am coming, interesting answers so far...
What about a MGZT 260 with a Dreadnought supercharger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFNkrwRmba8
Oh and an XJR could be fun too.
Oh and an XJR could be fun too.
If a good RS4 is a little out of budget how about an S4 Avant?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2629159.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2629159.htm
Got to be an E39 M5. One of the best cars I ever owned.
£9,995
2000 BMW M5 V8 High Specification 5.0
Trade Seller: Parva Prestige Cars
Manual, Saloon, Petrol, 57,800 miles, Le Mans Blue Metallic, 5 Owner(s), Folding Exterior Wing Mirrors, 6 Speed Manual, Anti-Lock Brakes, Cruise Control, Electric Tilt and Slide Sunroof, Remote Central Locking, Vehicle Stability Control, 18" Alloy Wheels, Automatic Dimming Rear View Mirror, CD Autochanger, Driver Information Display, Heated Seats, Rain Sensing Wipers, Split Folding Rear Seats. Two tone Black and Light grey Leather upholstery, Wood interior trim, Electric front seats with Driver Memory and electric steering column, Dual automatic air-conditioning, Multi function steering wheel, Full Communication Package includes Satellite navigation, Hands free phone, Television and teletext, Super sprint Sports exhaust that enhances the sound of the car without being to loud or boomy, Fully adjustable BC Coil over suspension with height camber and damper adjustment it rides slightly firmer than normal but im. Please click on the Dealers Website link to view more details and larger photos.
£9,995
£9,995
2000 BMW M5 V8 High Specification 5.0
Trade Seller: Parva Prestige Cars
Manual, Saloon, Petrol, 57,800 miles, Le Mans Blue Metallic, 5 Owner(s), Folding Exterior Wing Mirrors, 6 Speed Manual, Anti-Lock Brakes, Cruise Control, Electric Tilt and Slide Sunroof, Remote Central Locking, Vehicle Stability Control, 18" Alloy Wheels, Automatic Dimming Rear View Mirror, CD Autochanger, Driver Information Display, Heated Seats, Rain Sensing Wipers, Split Folding Rear Seats. Two tone Black and Light grey Leather upholstery, Wood interior trim, Electric front seats with Driver Memory and electric steering column, Dual automatic air-conditioning, Multi function steering wheel, Full Communication Package includes Satellite navigation, Hands free phone, Television and teletext, Super sprint Sports exhaust that enhances the sound of the car without being to loud or boomy, Fully adjustable BC Coil over suspension with height camber and damper adjustment it rides slightly firmer than normal but im. Please click on the Dealers Website link to view more details and larger photos.
£9,995
E39 M5 for me, or find a bit of extra budget for a nice ttV8 RS6
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2470045.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2470045.htm
The S4 is bang on the money. I love how 'Q' it is. Does anybody have real world experience of one (4.2 V8)? Is it similar, albeit diluted, to the RS4, which if I am honest is a bit out of reach...
I also like the RS6, but again I'd be concerned about buying one that was already high mileage, worth a look though.
That ZT260 does sound nice... I'm still not convinced though.
I am going to have to investigate an M5 - at the very least a test drive.
I also like the RS6, but again I'd be concerned about buying one that was already high mileage, worth a look though.
That ZT260 does sound nice... I'm still not convinced though.
I am going to have to investigate an M5 - at the very least a test drive.
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