996tt to 964 c4

[Lordjimimac]

Hi folks,

Ive a 996tt and after a test drive today in a guards red 964 c4 I'm seriously considering the switch.
My specialist has looked after the car for 5 years, i saw £25k of receipts including an engine rebuilt, suspension overhaul, bodywork.
It is guards red, with 144k on the clock and 40k on the engine rebuild.
It was a wonderful wonderful thing to drive. So alive. Brilliant fun!
Obviously a totally different proposition to the 996tt but i may well be up for it.

Couple of questions:
I have two small kids that fit nicely in the back of the 996tt - anyone used a 964 with a similar family and do the child seats fit?
Anyone made a similar switch and have a view - positive or negatively?

Cheers,
James

[Koln-RS]

Very different cars, that will feel, drive and perform very differently.

Personally, I'd rather have a really good 964 than a 996tt, as I like the traditional n/a air-cooled engine delivery, and the clean traditional '911' silhouette'.

But, the 964 C4 was early awd technology and IMO it was not entirely successful - adding weight and reducing the handling delicacy compared to the C2 (although, interestingly, I actually prefer the 993 C4 to the 993 C2).

The rear seats will be considerably more compromised in the 964. The 996 is quite viable for youngsters, but the 964 is only really possible for short journeys.

[W1TAK]

One thing to worry about by going 964, or any air cooled, is rust. I suggest you get the 964 thoroughly checked. I had a 964 c4 and loved it but i was paranoid by the body structure and general cost of maintaining an older car. You dont worry that much in a 996.

[mr pg]

I went from a 964 targa to 996t. I don'think you'd find much if any difference between the two. I could get two sets of golf clubs in both! A targa would actually provide more room due to the different roof line. It was certainly easier getting stuff in the back when you're able to take the roof off :-)

[The Red Devil]

mr pg said:

I went from a 964 targa to 996t. I don'think you'd find much if any difference between the two. I could get two sets of golf clubs in both! A targa would actually provide more room due to the different roof line. It was certainly easier getting stuff in the back when you're able to take the roof off :-)

You never felt any difference? Whit?
Clearly no driver

[mr pg]

The Red Devil said:

You never felt any difference? Whit?
Clearly no driver

OP was asking about rear space (that's what I referred to), not the gulf in performance.

[The Red Devil]

mr pg said:

OP was asking about rear space (that's what I referred to), not the gulf in performance.

I see I stand corrected. But raises another question, why put golf clubs in your sports car?
I would not want to risk damaging interior. Plus you look stupid

[g7jhp]

The Red Devil said:

I see I stand corrected. But raises another question, why put golf clubs in your sports car?
I would not want to risk damaging interior. Plus you look stupid

Another fine comment from our helpful Jock Car Dealer who's trying to flog a couple of 996 turbo's (if the phone rings)!

[hot66]

Had a 996 Turbo modded by DMS
Have a 964 C2 running pss10's and set to 5mm over RS

Rear seats, there is more room for kids in the 996 , but I still carry my daughters in the rear of the 964 & they are aged 10 & 13 .. although the 13 year old has started to complain her head is touching the rear screen !

Personally, I much prefer the 964 from a driving point of view, there is a huge difference in outright pace between the 2 , but the 964 for me is way more enjoyable , not only do I have to work at going quickly but it is just more fun to throw around.

I've not driven a 964 C4 , but have in the past had a 993 C4 which was great except for the steering always felt a bit dead at the straight on position

[Lordjimimac]

Koln-RS said:

Very different cars, that will feel, drive and perform very differently.

Personally, I'd rather have a really good 964 than a 996tt, as I like the traditional n/a air-cooled engine delivery, and the clean traditional '911' silhouette'.

But, the 964 C4 was early awd technology and IMO it was not entirely successful - adding weight and reducing the handling delicacy compared to the C2 (although, interestingly, I actually prefer the 993 C4 to the 993 C2).

The rear seats will be considerably more compromised in the 964. The 996 is quite viable for youngsters, but the 964 is only really possible for short journeys.


Thanks very much indeed for your comment - and sorry for the delay!
Such a tough decision - you comment about the kids is a great input to it.
Powerful emotions draw me to the air cooled... now considering a 997 gen 2 with pse though

[Lordjimimac]

hot66 said:

Had a 996 Turbo modded by DMS
Have a 964 C2 running pss10's and set to 5mm over RS

Rear seats, there is more room for kids in the 996 , but I still carry my daughters in the rear of the 964 & they are aged 10 & 13 .. although the 13 year old has started to complain her head is touching the rear screen !

Personally, I much prefer the 964 from a driving point of view, there is a huge difference in outright pace between the 2 , but the 964 for me is way more enjoyable , not only do I have to work at going quickly but it is just more fun to throw around.

I've not driven a 964 C4 , but have in the past had a 993 C4 which was great except for the steering always felt a bit dead at the straight on position

Thanks hot66 - I count believe how much more fun the 964 was - dont get me wrong - i still loved driving the turbo home and it gives a huge rush - but the 964 was so much more engaging

[Orangecurry]

Lordjimimac said:

Couple of questions:
I have two small kids that fit nicely in the back of the 996tt - anyone used a 964 with a similar family and do the child seats fit?
Anyone made a similar switch and have a view - positive or negatively?

Cheers,
James

There is plenty of room for kids in the back (993 is the same as a 964 AFAIK), but as mentioned it is overall height that will catch their heads eventually. My 12 and 9 year-olds went to Le Mans with me in 2014, and only now does the 13 year-old's head touch the rear glass.

He can bend.

Certain child booster seats fit perfectly - you just have to source the correct shape.

[Turbo Jonny]

You would get more safety features with the later NA cars as well as more space

[Steve Rance]

If you are looking for a pure and involving driving experience, the 964 will be a good option. Classic old school 911 looks with modern underpinnings. Very easy to tune should you need to also. In a 964, you don't need lots of power to enjoy the experience. If you are looking for a practical and effortless DD then I'd stay with the TT. It delivers on every level and as an all rounder, very hard to beat

[berty37]

Steve Rance said:

If you are looking for a pure and involving driving experience, the 964 will be a good option. Classic old school 911 looks with modern underpinnings. Very easy to tune should you need to also. In a 964, you don't need lots of power to enjoy the experience. If you are looking for a practical and effortless DD then I'd stay with the TT. It delivers on every level and as an all rounder, very hard to beat

Once again a very fair and honest comparison from Steve. I am a big fan of modern day 911's especially the turbos (sorry!!) but a mate of mine had his 964 C2 totally rebuilt almost nut and bolt restoration by Ken at 9e. No massive mods from original other than height lowered to almost RS and a small 20-30 bhp remap. We drove down to Stuttgart and back via Spa and the car was just brilliant, faultless the whole time. By a total fluke we managed to find some utter brilliant roads from the Nurburgring to Spa and it opened my eyes a lot to the air cooled cars.

[shoestring7]

FWIW I never used child seats in the back of '64s once they were no longer babies. I used a booster for a while, but as soon as the seatbelt was at the correct hight they were happy enough in the 'child seats' that are standard Porsche factory fitment in the back. My 12 yo is about to come to the end of the days he can comfortably fit in the back though.

Apart from the obvious, a big difference you'll notice will be in the driving position. RHD 911s were pretty compromised in that respect until the water-cooled cars arrived; the steering wheel is a stretch and the drivers legs are cranked towards the centre of the car, and I found in my 964 that my right hip would ache after about an hour, especially on a m/way. Perhaps I should have seen about fitting cruise....

SS7

[hot66]

shoestring7 said:

FWIW I never used child seats in the back of '64s once they were no longer babies. I used a booster for a while, but as soon as the seatbelt was at the correct hight they were happy enough in the 'child seats' that are standard Porsche factory fitment in the back. My 12 yo is about to come to the end of the days he can comfortably fit in the back though.

Apart from the obvious, a big difference you'll notice will be in the driving position. RHD 911s were pretty compromised in that respect until the water-cooled cars arrived; the steering wheel is a stretch and the drivers legs are cranked towards the centre of the car, and I found in my 964 that my right hip would ache after about an hour, especially on a m/way. Perhaps I should have seen about fitting cruise....

SS7

which is why LHD is best I'll only ever buy LHD aircooled these days

[shoestring7]

hot66 said:

shoestring7 said:

FWIW I never used child seats in the back of '64s once they were no longer babies. I used a booster for a while, but as soon as the seatbelt was at the correct hight they were happy enough in the 'child seats' that are standard Porsche factory fitment in the back. My 12 yo is about to come to the end of the days he can comfortably fit in the back though.

Apart from the obvious, a big difference you'll notice will be in the driving position. RHD 911s were pretty compromised in that respect until the water-cooled cars arrived; the steering wheel is a stretch and the drivers legs are cranked towards the centre of the car, and I found in my 964 that my right hip would ache after about an hour, especially on a m/way. Perhaps I should have seen about fitting cruise....

SS7

which is why LHD is best I'll only ever buy LHD aircooled these days

LHD: just as Ferry and Butzi intended



SS7

[Orangecurry]

...and in the interests of balanced reporting, I don't notice any difference in driving comfort between my RHD 1996 911 and any of my other non-Porsche RHD cars.

After blatting back from Germany, or Belgium, or France in a single-stint, I spring out of the driver's seat like a new-born lamb.

Are you certain that you chaps are sitting the right-way-around in the seat?

[Wozy68]

Orangecurry said:

...and in the interests of balanced reporting, I don't notice any difference in driving comfort between my RHD 1996 911 and any of my other non-Porsche RHD cars.

After blatting back from Germany, or Belgium, or France in a single-stint, I spring out of the driver's seat like a new-born lamb.

Are you certain that you chaps are sitting the right-way-around in the seat?

Stuttgart to Evesham via the Ring in the day. Set off 9.30AM, supping a pint in the local at 9.30PM.

RHD 993, not a problem. Rolling a ciggie at 120 on the autobahn was a chore mind.