Rob Dickinson on Singer (CNET video)
Discussion
g7jhp said:
Fascinating video with Rob Dickinson talking about Singer - watch it here
Great listening to his motivation and ethos behind Singer and what they've got planned in future.
My guess ? Four valve heads for the air cooled engine. It's been done before by a company in The States/Canada and developed with the help of Cartronic in Germany, but was a hugely expensive conversion that never made it to market. The Hp figures were hugely impressive. Watch this space .......Great listening to his motivation and ethos behind Singer and what they've got planned in future.
Thanks for the link to the video
Cheib said:
As I understand it the main issues people in the UK have that you would think would be all over a Singer are that you have to pay VAT to get it into the UK and they have no affiliate over here. So anything wrong with it and it's a huge ball ache. Shame!
People buying a Singer are likely to have a collection of cars so I don't see the VAT being a big issue.Well listening to Rob Dickinson talks about how he wants to offer McLaren levels of Customer Service I'd expect Singer to fly someone over if there was an issue (which being a 911 I don't expect will be all that often). I'm also sure they'll have unofficial UK independents who would work with them if required.
Think they are great personally, both in the sense Singer care enough to do what they do in terms of obsessive attention to detail and all that and also that there are people who care enough about what Singer do to pay those prices. Would love to have one some day even if I think some of the stuff they do is a tad OTT.
It's interesting though that having spoken to a few proper collectors and those with other older classic Porches (like Yellow491 I guess) that they don't seem anything quite as keen on the Singer idea.
It's interesting though that having spoken to a few proper collectors and those with other older classic Porches (like Yellow491 I guess) that they don't seem anything quite as keen on the Singer idea.
g7jhp said:
Cheib said:
As I understand it the main issues people in the UK have that you would think would be all over a Singer are that you have to pay VAT to get it into the UK and they have no affiliate over here. So anything wrong with it and it's a huge ball ache. Shame!
People buying a Singer are likely to have a collection of cars so I don't see the VAT being a big issue.Well listening to Rob Dickinson talks about how he wants to offer McLaren levels of Customer Service I'd expect Singer to fly someone over if there was an issue (which being a 911 I don't expect will be all that often). I'm also sure they'll have unofficial UK independents who would work with them if required.
Cheib said:
The "people" I saw discussing that on Twitter are both on PH and both have an F1 amongst other things ! Agree everything's relative but I suspect it's the lack of UK support is the issue.
Cheib, it's certainly a valid point. If I was serious about buying a Singer I'd certainly be asking Rob Dickinson what level of Customer Support they offer to back-up their product. I'm sure it's an area they'll take seriously.isaldiri said:
It's interesting though that having spoken to a few proper collectors and those with other older classic Porches (like Yellow491 I guess) that they don't seem anything quite as keen on the Singer idea.
Presumably it's the antithesis of what the proper collectors of older 911s look for - super originality, provenance, interesting history.You might think they would appeal to the r-gruppe and hot-rod type guys, but I bet they don't really. The hot-rod guys want to put together mix and match oddities (perhaps the wrong term) to create their own personalised cocktail of 911 features.
There aren't many companies re-manufacturing 911s, some, not many. Perhaps Paul Stephens should have moved to the West coast to do his PS Autoart thing!
Bert
I unfortunately don't have the money at the moment, but will certainly consider singer once I have it. I see this as a car you spec to your liking and then keep forever. They have a manual, are light weight and look amazing imo. Also due to the small size they should be perfectly useable and as they are still based on a 911 I'd expect them to be quite reliable. I love the performance figures of new cars but just do not want all the driver aids, PDk boxes Etc. this would be my only car for daily use (apart from when there is salt on the roads), so i would feel like I am getting proper use out of my money. I would also expect Porsche or any good mechanic to be able to service it. I am a bit weird though so this point of view probably does not apply to most and I suspect their usual customers are rather wealthy ....
With the budget that it requires you can get something built better,or totally to your choice and ethos in the uk or germany better.
The great part of the early cars is its weight and simplicity, with driver feebsck in bucket loads.
I think they are missing the point,i know a person just waiting for some one to have the right budget to build someting bettter in mainly aluminium,apart from the main chassis which would be a pre 73 chassis.I am not the person for such a project,as my cars get fairly heavy use. Target weight would be 800 kg and 330 bhp.
Dont get me wrong singer looks nice,but what is it.
The great part of the early cars is its weight and simplicity, with driver feebsck in bucket loads.
I think they are missing the point,i know a person just waiting for some one to have the right budget to build someting bettter in mainly aluminium,apart from the main chassis which would be a pre 73 chassis.I am not the person for such a project,as my cars get fairly heavy use. Target weight would be 800 kg and 330 bhp.
Dont get me wrong singer looks nice,but what is it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes ,no body is saying deficient in build.just because its built in the usa and expensive,cars can be built as good as or better,its just the limit of your budget,and by time you have purchased a singer and imported,you could have a car built better ,lighter, faster,etcWhat about a hand crafted all aluminium bodied lightweight with some good bhp,made in the uk. With the interior to your choice,all the backup you would ever require.After all its a porsche thats reliable if built by the right people.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm sure I read somewhere that they've made 12 Singers.This article linked below was written in April and it says the car was the ninth.
http://www.total911.com/singer-vehicle-design-broo...
A bit like Eagle E Types- all E Type enthusiasts are aware of Eagle yet I was amazed when I read how few cars they've actually made/upgraded.
I really wouldn't be looking forward to paying import duty/VAT on a £300,000 Singer-
Yellow491 said:
Yes sounds good,i run a 993 rs with 370 bhp for about 8 years.
Dampers don't need to be crazy price,standard 993 rs are good,having had other exotic dampers and went back to standard
Sorry, got to disagree with your comments on dampers. Firstly, and as with many things in this world, you get what you pay for. If you think that a standard 993 RS damper is any way comparable with a £1250 Ohlins TTX, I'm afraid you're wrong. Period. Dampers don't need to be crazy price,standard 993 rs are good,having had other exotic dampers and went back to standard
The standard 993 RS items are "ok" in my experience, but nothing more, nothing less. KW's are a step up, but by no means as good as it gets.
If you've tried other "exotic" dampers and gone back to standard and not found there to be much of a difference, I suspect that the spring and damper rates on the "exotic dampers" were poorly chosen (most likely waaaay too stiff), or the choice of damper engineer you used to set up and adjust the dampers must have been in some way lacking.
A set of Ohlins, Motons, ExeTC's, high end Bilsteins etc, will transform and improve the chassis dynamics of pretty much any 911.
Personally I think the Singer is superb concept, it takes the 964 interior and makes it a far, far nicer place to be, it brings the performance up to 996 GT3 standards, it improves the suspension dynamics and blends old skool looks with a more modern platform featuring ABS brakes and PAS steering, add in the weight reduction with its use of CF body panels and end product is a car I have every intention of owning at some some point in the not too distant future.
As for the build quality, I think Rob and his team have done an excellent job, but there's always room for improvement. I have to admit I'm rather OCD when it comes to prep, accordingly there are several issues in the picture below that I object to :
The lack of any chamfering on the machined alloy strut top mount, along with the lack of a cap over the top mount end (even AG included these on the 964/993 RS top mounts)
The redundant threaded pins originally used for the clips to secure pipes/cables.
The frankly horrendous bead of birdsh*t welding on the turret itself.
I think the air filter set up is plain cheap and nasty (most likely makes a great noise mind), once again at this price level something more bespoke is required (personally I'd site the air cleaner assembly outside of the engine bay and duct cold air from the wheelarches.
Singer appear to be using various Rennline products (strut top mounts and footrest), no issue with that, but I don't want to see their name engraved on the components they supply, I'd either want Singer's name engraved in them, or nothing at all.
I'm not a fan of the exhaust, it looks far too 997 GT3. far better to go for the classic 2.8 RSR look imo.
The list goes on and on ....... but overall I think they're a brilliant concept that marries old school looks with far more modern mechanicals and everyday usability.
And whilst this is a great looking car :
It fails to capture the old school 2.8 RSR racer look that Singer have managed so perfectly with their car.
The cartoonish ar*e in the air look/comedy rear wheel/tyre dimensions used by the Singer may not find favour with all, but they ape the original 2.8 RSR race cars rather well.
The 2.8RSR ride heights do seem to vary (I'm guessing due to driver preference). The Gulf blue car looks be at the lower end of the spectrum.
Plenty of images of the original cars here :
http://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911rsr/911rsr_facto...
The Michelins used by Singer do have tall looking sidewalls, and my guess is they'll be waaay stiffer than the Michelin TB's the 2.8's used, though the Ohlins TTX dampers they use (not convinced they're part of the "standard" Singer spec) would nullify the effects of the sidewall stiffness more than likely.
Plenty of images of the original cars here :
http://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911rsr/911rsr_facto...
The Michelins used by Singer do have tall looking sidewalls, and my guess is they'll be waaay stiffer than the Michelin TB's the 2.8's used, though the Ohlins TTX dampers they use (not convinced they're part of the "standard" Singer spec) would nullify the effects of the sidewall stiffness more than likely.
Gassing Station | Porsche Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff