Engine sound in cabin
Discussion
The more I read about the 12c the more confused I get! But my main concern is engine noise. Is the sound nice or tiring over a long journey? Is the sound piped into the cabin through the speakers like the m5? And is the volume controlable? I had a 997 gt3 and hated the resonance in the cabin. A standard carrera however sounds sublime. Answers please!
estacion said:
The more I read about the 12c the more confused I get! But my main concern is engine noise. Is the sound nice or tiring over a long journey? Is the sound piped into the cabin through the speakers like the m5? And is the volume controlable? I had a 997 gt3 and hated the resonance in the cabin. A standard carrera however sounds sublime. Answers please!
There is some stupid intake pipe that allows more sound into the car from the engine (thanks harry metcalfe for that idiotic suggestion to mclaren where near every owner i know has turned it to the minimum) where you can lower the noise on one of the settings on the ISG settings. Long journeys are not an issue especially if you turn up the speaker volume slightly. The car's engine noise is most obvious at low speeds i would say. There is obviously some road noise given the rear tyre sizes though.There is far less 'resonance' and intrusion in the 12c cabin than the 997GT3 and imo that sums up the car, very capable though it undoubtedly is, not unlike the 997 Turbo and Turbo S, it lacks character which afflicts many non na performance cars. To me, 'nuclear detachment' could perhaps best describe the experience.
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
av185 said:
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
Did exactly that a couple of month ago... Looking to decide between the 2.The 458 is a typical Italian sportscar. A lot of noise and flash but little useful feel back to the driver, underlined by poor build quality and very fragile mechanics.
Every bumps or uneven road surface make you feel like the whole car will fall apart.
Have a look at any 2+ year old Ferrari with a few thousand miles.... You will see what I mean.
IMO, a Ferrari is an expensive Fiat for people that are looking for a wealth statement and a badge before anything else. And before everybody jumps at my throat, I am fine with that, it is ok to express how successful one might be. It is after all, the car brand by excellence. There is no arguing about this fact.
12C is for people that are more interested in the car itself.
The 12C is in a league of its own when it comes to handling, overall capability and performance (although I have to admit no having tried the top end 911s).
You can start firing
mb1 said:
av185 said:
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
Did exactly that a couple of month ago... Looking to decide between the 2.The 458 is a typical Italian sportscar. A lot of noise and flash but little useful feel back to the driver, underlined by poor build quality and very fragile mechanics.
Every bumps or uneven road surface make you feel like the whole car will fall apart.
Have a look at any 2+ year old Ferrari with a few thousand miles.... You will see what I mean.
IMO, a Ferrari is an expensive Fiat for people that are looking for a wealth statement and a badge before anything else. And before everybody jumps at my throat, I am fine with that, it is ok to express how successful one might be. It is after all, the car brand by excellence. There is no arguing about this fact.
12C is for people that are more interested in the car itself.
The 12C is in a league of its own when it comes to handling, overall capability and performance (although I have to admit no having tried the top end 911s).
You can start firing
Whilst clearly not being a definitive guide, and I am sure we can all quote some horror stories in terms of build quality for both cars (especially Mclaren!), the F V8 is seen by many as being the last of the unburstable high revving truly perfect sounding engines with a fantastic linear power delivery (unlike the 12c).
One could also argue that people buy the Mclaren just for the badge.......
I would say the Mclaren is (just) an expensive 911 TTs......both crushingly capable and extremely rapid cars fantastic at covering mileage but neither of which you would get up early on a nice Sunday morning for to do your favourite driving road......unlike one would in a 458...... (the thinking mans Mclaren).......
av185 said:
Is that why inclusive extended warranties were given on later cars?...
That's because they do go wrong and are very expensive to maintain. I did not own a Ferrari, but used to have a Gallardo, and you are talking 10k a year to keep it going.av185 said:
Whilst clearly not being a definitive guide, and I am sure we can all quote some horror stories in terms of build quality for both cars (especially Mclaren!), the F V8 is seen by many as being the last of the unburstable high revving truly perfect sounding engines with a fantastic linear power delivery (unlike the 12c).
I would have liked to see Ferrari's very first 1,000 cars...I am impressed by the level of quality and finish achieved my McLaren in a very short space of time.
The Ferrari sounds better than the McLaren. But my previous V12 Vantage beats those two hands down !
av185 said:
One could also argue that people buy the Mclaren just for the badge.......
I guess you are right... And McLaren even replaced the speed mark on the 650S with an horrible kit car like McLaren front badge... Because apparently some owners did not like to asked what the car was at petrol stations !!I love the speed mark and the fact that people do not have a clue what it is.
av185 said:
I would say the Mclaren is (just) an expensive 911 TTs......both crushingly capable and extremely rapid cars fantastic at covering mileage but neither of which you would get up early on a nice Sunday morning for to do your favourite driving road......unlike one would in a 458...... (the thinking mans Mclaren).......
I have given up a long time ago my Porsche ownership because of the reason you just mention.My previous V12 Vantage, and my new 12C would get me up very early indeed to, just experience the driving.
The 458, I am sure is as attractive but it has all the landmarks of what I hated in the Gallardo and made me go away from the car.
My point on the inclusive Ferrari warranty on later cars was that F must have confidence in the car for them to offer it......
Interesting point on the Aston, although not really comparing like with like, the 12c and 458 clearly being true sports cars whereas the Aston is essentially a sports GT.....
Out of interest, was it a Turbo 911 you owned.....?
Interesting point on the Aston, although not really comparing like with like, the 12c and 458 clearly being true sports cars whereas the Aston is essentially a sports GT.....
Out of interest, was it a Turbo 911 you owned.....?
Interesting replies, I am thinking the mclaren may well be for me! In the past I had a 997 turbo which I loved because you could use it all the time, almost daily. When I bought a ferrari 430 I always ended up taking my audi as it was just to full on. BUT I love driving so it always seemed a shame to leave the better car at home. The mclaren appears to be everyday usable but with a hint of the exotic about it, a little more special than the porsche but without the compromises of the ferrari. Am i right?
av185 said:
My point on the inclusive Ferrari warranty on later cars was that F must have confidence in the car for them to offer it......
.....?
What inclusive warranty? The ferrari package is free servicing not added warranty. Ferrari do offer 4yrs manufacturer warranty vs mclaren at 3yrs though......?
The mclaren imo has far superior build quality to the 458 but driving wise you need to drive both to decide which car is for you. It is however nothing like the 997 turbo, both driving dynamics wise as well as sounding like a proper car not an overblown vacumn cleaner. Vs the 458 it is close as the 458 is a phenomenal car in it's own right but put this way all the mclaren owners i know could have bought the 458 but went for the 12c instead. Read what you will into that i suppose.
mb1 said:
av185 said:
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
Did exactly that a couple of month ago... Looking to decide between the 2.The 458 is a typical Italian sportscar. A lot of noise and flash but little useful feel back to the driver, underlined by poor build quality and very fragile mechanics.
Every bumps or uneven road surface make you feel like the whole car will fall apart.
Have a look at any 2+ year old Ferrari with a few thousand miles.... You will see what I mean.
IMO, a Ferrari is an expensive Fiat for people that are looking for a wealth statement and a badge before anything else. And before everybody jumps at my throat, I am fine with that, it is ok to express how successful one might be. It is after all, the car brand by excellence. There is no arguing about this fact.
12C is for people that are more interested in the car itself.
The 12C is in a league of its own when it comes to handling, overall capability and performance (although I have to admit no having tried the top end 911s).
You can start firing
Quick, but unexciting and not very pretty.
isaldiri said:
av185 said:
My point on the inclusive Ferrari warranty on later cars was that F must have confidence in the car for them to offer it......
.....?
What inclusive warranty? The ferrari package is free servicing not added warranty. Ferrari do offer 4yrs manufacturer warranty vs mclaren at 3yrs though......?
The mclaren imo has far superior build quality to the 458 but driving wise you need to drive both to decide which car is for you. It is however nothing like the 997 turbo, both driving dynamics wise as well as sounding like a proper car not an overblown vacumn cleaner. Vs the 458 it is close as the 458 is a phenomenal car in it's own right but put this way all the mclaren owners i know could have bought the 458 but went for the 12c instead. Read what you will into that i suppose.
The comparison with a 911 Tts would be the 991 not the 997....the latest car is light years ahead of its predecessor in almost every area, including, to a degree, engine sound. But I would also suggest that the 'detachment' element and common denominator of turbo power v na is clearly both the Tts and 12c s main achilees heel when compared with the 458.
It wouldn't be just me who would disagree with your assertion that the Mclaren has far superior build quality to the Ferrari......as you know there have been countless threads on PH referring to this infamous aspect of the 12c and in fact there is one running at the moment........
av185 said:
+1
And the 458 is probably the prettiest F since the Dino........
-1And the 458 is probably the prettiest F since the Dino........
You might both be on the wrong forum
Looks are very subjective and in the eye of the beholder, so you will not convince me on that one, nor will I try to convince you.
IMO, the 458 looked superb when it got out but as every single Ferrari, it gets old quickly and frankly the lines do look messy now.
I originaly found the 12C too plain but now, 3 years later it looks like a modern sportscar that look pretty and will keep looking good in many years to come. Like its predecessor, the F1. Unlike its successor the 650...
estacion said:
Interesting replies, I am thinking the mclaren may well be for me! In the past I had a 997 turbo which I loved because you could use it all the time, almost daily. When I bought a ferrari 430 I always ended up taking my audi as it was just to full on. BUT I love driving so it always seemed a shame to leave the better car at home. The mclaren appears to be everyday usable but with a hint of the exotic about it, a little more special than the porsche but without the compromises of the ferrari. Am i right?
The McLaren will be more difficult to live with then a regular 911.Have you tried, consider a V12 Vantage ? The best allround car I owned until the McLaren.
av185 said:
The comparison with a 911 Tts would be the 991 not the 997....the latest car is light years ahead of its predecessor in almost every area, including, to a degree, engine sound. But I would also suggest that the 'detachment' element and common denominator of turbo power v na is clearly both the Tts and 12c s main achilees heel when compared with the 458.
It wouldn't be just me who would disagree with your assertion that the Mclaren has far superior build quality to the Ferrari......as you know there have been countless threads on PH referring to this infamous aspect of the 12c and in fact there is one running at the moment........
I don't consider build quality equivalent to electrical issues as happening on the other thread with a car left standing for months. Look at the way the 458 is put together under the skin, the interior fit and finish and general build/paint quality and in general the 12c is the better made car.It wouldn't be just me who would disagree with your assertion that the Mclaren has far superior build quality to the Ferrari......as you know there have been countless threads on PH referring to this infamous aspect of the 12c and in fact there is one running at the moment........
this 'detachment' you refer to imo is a function of nearly every modern sportscar with huge amounts of electronics. The 458 is every bit as dependent on it's various electronic systems as the 12c. It is less immediately 'busy' than the 458 i agree but in terms of driving enjoyment, well clearly for some it offers more but not others. I wouldn't blanket try to claim one car was better than another in terms of driving experience, merely they appeal to different people.
isaldiri said:
I don't consider build quality equivalent to electrical issues as happening on the other thread with a car left standing for months. Look at the way the 458 is put together under the skin, the interior fit and finish and general build/paint quality and in general the 12c is the better made car.
this 'detachment' you refer to imo is a function of nearly every modern sportscar with huge amounts of electronics. The 458 is every bit as dependent on it's various electronic systems as the 12c. It is less immediately 'busy' than the 458 i agree but in terms of driving enjoyment, well clearly for some it offers more but not others. I wouldn't blanket try to claim one car was better than another in terms of driving experience, merely they appeal to different people.
I agree the 'digital' electronic detachment is similar in both cars and (un)fortunately that is seen as progress from the manufacturers perspective at least.......but as I mentioned I am talking detachment from the cars heart, or soul...I.e. its engine....in the same way as a 911 turbo is essentially a sports GT and less driver focused than a standard Carrera principally down to its turbo as opposed to na engine......similar Mclaren and 458. In the same way, albeit at a different level, the new m3 m4 is widely regarded as having lost a major part of its character over the e90 92 by going turbo in the name of efficiency.this 'detachment' you refer to imo is a function of nearly every modern sportscar with huge amounts of electronics. The 458 is every bit as dependent on it's various electronic systems as the 12c. It is less immediately 'busy' than the 458 i agree but in terms of driving enjoyment, well clearly for some it offers more but not others. I wouldn't blanket try to claim one car was better than another in terms of driving experience, merely they appeal to different people.
It will be interesting to see how much character will be lost in next years turbo 458 facelift and how it measures up against the 650s.......
mb1 said:
av185 said:
Drive a 458 back to back with a 12c and see which one stirs your driving soul....
Did exactly that a couple of month ago... Looking to decide between the 2.The 458 is a typical Italian sportscar. A lot of noise and flash but little useful feel back to the driver, underlined by poor build quality and very fragile mechanics.
Every bumps or uneven road surface make you feel like the whole car will fall apart.
Have a look at any 2+ year old Ferrari with a few thousand miles.... You will see what I mean.
IMO, a Ferrari is an expensive Fiat for people that are looking for a wealth statement and a badge before anything else. And before everybody jumps at my throat, I am fine with that, it is ok to express how successful one might be. It is after all, the car brand by excellence. There is no arguing about this fact.
12C is for people that are more interested in the car itself.
The 12C is in a league of its own when it comes to handling, overall capability and performance (although I have to admit no having tried the top end 911s).
You can start firing
I made the same comparison, when deciding what to buy next and share your thoughts entirely.
I was quite frankly disappointed with the 458, it was my first Ferrari experience so maybe I was expecting too much. The ride was very fussy, seats uncomfortable, engine noise disappointing and the front end goes very light and twitchy under hard acceleration. I've also heard about, and seen first hand, the suspect build quality.
The 12C feels spot-on for me behind the wheel and the handling and ride quality is sublime. I'm also very impressed with the technology that this car offers. The only re-adjustment I'm having to make is getting used to the sound of the turbo v8 engine, which is an acquired taste after being used to the great v8 muscle sound of the SLS.
BTW, I love the colour combination of your car, very unusual and quite stunning!
All of us 12C owners should try and arrange to meet up some time next year. Anyone interested?
Edited by Ballistic on Sunday 16th November 08:58
Edited by Ballistic on Sunday 16th November 09:02
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff