Second hand zoes - the battery lease?
Discussion
If you buy a second hand zoe do you have to buy a battery lease as well or is the second hand price generally now including actually owning such an important part of the vehicle? I was quite fancying a zoe as they seem to be dirt cheap at even under 2 years old (just over 7-8k) Most of the leaf ads mention the battery lease if it has one but the zoe ads don't seem to. Does that mean they generally don't have a compulsory lease with them now?
Petrol cars aren't fond of short journeys so it would be a second car for all the useless short (< 5 miles) journeys and be an emergency spare if normal car is on the fritz. Man maths is at work, it's a thin excuse to have another car toy
Petrol cars aren't fond of short journeys so it would be a second car for all the useless short (< 5 miles) journeys and be an emergency spare if normal car is on the fritz. Man maths is at work, it's a thin excuse to have another car toy
teabelly said:
If you buy a second hand zoe do you have to buy a battery lease as well or is the second hand price generally now including actually owning such an important part of the vehicle? I was quite fancying a zoe as they seem to be dirt cheap at even under 2 years old (just over 7-8k) Most of the leaf ads mention the battery lease if it has one but the zoe ads don't seem to. Does that mean they generally don't have a compulsory lease with them now?
Petrol cars aren't fond of short journeys so it would be a second car for all the useless short (< 5 miles) journeys and be an emergency spare if normal car is on the fritz. Man maths is at work, it's a thin excuse to have another car toy
If the seller doesn't own the battery, how could they sell you the car including a battery?Petrol cars aren't fond of short journeys so it would be a second car for all the useless short (< 5 miles) journeys and be an emergency spare if normal car is on the fritz. Man maths is at work, it's a thin excuse to have another car toy
I do idly wonder if the lease requires some kind of credit check, and what happens if that's failed. Or if the DD bounces. Do Renault come round, let themselves into the car, and nick the battery? What happens to the battery from a written-off car?
Buy one of the 'i' models like this:
http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
Phunk said:
Buy one of the 'i' models like this:
http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
So that's how you tell with Renault! I was wondering. http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
Can also say that Leafs (Leaves?) where the Flex battery leasing is declared properly are few and far between. Think it's four in a row now having sent an enquiry it turns out to be Flex. First thing I ask about to save wasting any more time, thoughts doesn't stop the begging emails, buy a car from us, pretty please. Annoying.
I gave up on zoes - every one I asked about turned out to be battery lease - even when the listings said 'i'.
A 63 plate generation 2 Leaf acenta with batteries owned is now available for about 9K - including 6.6 charger if you are lucky.
Have a look at https://speakev.com/threads/2013-63-nissan-leaf-ac...
Specifically look at the link to the skoda site advert - worth talking to the guy at Fox - they have a number of EVs and sell them on at very good prices when they've done with them (I think they milk the gov grants and capital allowances then move on to the next one.)
A 63 plate generation 2 Leaf acenta with batteries owned is now available for about 9K - including 6.6 charger if you are lucky.
Have a look at https://speakev.com/threads/2013-63-nissan-leaf-ac...
Specifically look at the link to the skoda site advert - worth talking to the guy at Fox - they have a number of EVs and sell them on at very good prices when they've done with them (I think they milk the gov grants and capital allowances then move on to the next one.)
Edited by TooLateForAName on Wednesday 3rd February 20:10
Phunk said:
Buy one of the 'i' models like this:
http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
I went to look at that very car.http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/renault/zoe/i...
Means the battery has been purchased outright. However, it's worth checking with Renault UK before pulling the trigger as many are incorrectly listed.
Its not an I model, it also appears to have some other issues.
It seems that advertising a Zoe as an I is a very very common thing to do.
I'm sure that car has been discussed on speakev.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Its been left uncharged and shows warning lights.- see the pic of the dashboard.
Also it is not an i- and there is a battery lease.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Its been left uncharged and shows warning lights.- see the pic of the dashboard.
Also it is not an i- and there is a battery lease.
Edited by TooLateForAName on Sunday 14th February 12:02
The majority of ZOE's are non "i" models, most people purchase a ZOE on a pcp with the intention of handing it back at the end so therefore go with the battery lease option.
If you have poor credit you will still get ok'd for the battery lease; something to do with it being an integral part of the car; if you purchased the car outright you would still need to be able to power it.
There is the facility for the battery to be "turned off" if payments are stopped by the end user, this will only happen when the car is at the end users address, this is one of the reasons that there has to be a good 3G signal in the area where the car is registered.
If you have poor credit you will still get ok'd for the battery lease; something to do with it being an integral part of the car; if you purchased the car outright you would still need to be able to power it.
There is the facility for the battery to be "turned off" if payments are stopped by the end user, this will only happen when the car is at the end users address, this is one of the reasons that there has to be a good 3G signal in the area where the car is registered.
We've had a look at second-hand electric cars. The battery leasing is a big issue when the car decreases in value.
The problem is that, if bought on a lease, you effectively have two monthly costs: the cost of the lease for the vehicle & the cost for the battery. Whilst the former decreases as the cost of a car depreciates, the cost of the second one doesn't. As a percentage of total costs the battery lease becomes bigger and bigger over time.
We quickly found out that a 2 year old i3 became a much more interesting option than a similar age Renault when looking at total monthly cost.
The problem is that, if bought on a lease, you effectively have two monthly costs: the cost of the lease for the vehicle & the cost for the battery. Whilst the former decreases as the cost of a car depreciates, the cost of the second one doesn't. As a percentage of total costs the battery lease becomes bigger and bigger over time.
We quickly found out that a 2 year old i3 became a much more interesting option than a similar age Renault when looking at total monthly cost.
I understand, however if you're buying you're still suffering depreciation which somehow you need to account for.
We're going to do more km / miles than you seem to be doing (I'm looking at 20,000 km a year of local trips; we do another 10-15k long-distance trips).
At this level the lease of the BMW, an i3 BEV with a decent spec (pro navigation, all the fast chargers, heat pump etc) was exactly (to the nearest CHF) the same price as a Zoe plus battery. The Zoe was about 40% cheaper purchase price but this was exactly the monthly cost of the battery lease. The BMW was from an i-dealer and the Zoe from a Renault dealer. Both the cheapest of their type in the local market.
For the calculation I used exactly the same deposit (so a bigger percentage on the Renault) and the same interest rate. End values came from BMW / Renault and showed the BMW losing a bigger percentage of value.
To complete my successful man-maths the total cost of ownership of an electric car like this (lease + electricity + service) was less than using our current car when I passed 15,000 km a year. So we're planning to get another car for less than the running costs of one. The current car is 13 years old so depreciation is ~ zero.
We're going to do more km / miles than you seem to be doing (I'm looking at 20,000 km a year of local trips; we do another 10-15k long-distance trips).
At this level the lease of the BMW, an i3 BEV with a decent spec (pro navigation, all the fast chargers, heat pump etc) was exactly (to the nearest CHF) the same price as a Zoe plus battery. The Zoe was about 40% cheaper purchase price but this was exactly the monthly cost of the battery lease. The BMW was from an i-dealer and the Zoe from a Renault dealer. Both the cheapest of their type in the local market.
For the calculation I used exactly the same deposit (so a bigger percentage on the Renault) and the same interest rate. End values came from BMW / Renault and showed the BMW losing a bigger percentage of value.
To complete my successful man-maths the total cost of ownership of an electric car like this (lease + electricity + service) was less than using our current car when I passed 15,000 km a year. So we're planning to get another car for less than the running costs of one. The current car is 13 years old so depreciation is ~ zero.
It makes sense with a higher mileage.
The residuals of EVs seem to be poor. This is £7k at 18 months old.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Anyone seen the above car? Makes no mention of needing a lease either!
The residuals of EVs seem to be poor. This is £7k at 18 months old.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Anyone seen the above car? Makes no mention of needing a lease either!
teabelly said:
It makes sense with a higher mileage.
The residuals of EVs seem to be poor. This is £7k at 18 months old.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Anyone seen the above car? Makes no mention of needing a lease either!
No reg number to check the spec but chances are it will need a battery lease too.The residuals of EVs seem to be poor. This is £7k at 18 months old.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Anyone seen the above car? Makes no mention of needing a lease either!
Nope 
Work on the assumption that all Zoe are battery lease.
even if it says no lease - make sure! I found a dealer with 6 zoe that the claimed to be lease free. On investigation they were loading a years worth of lease into the price so no lease (for a year)
Work on the assumption that all Zoe are battery lease.
even if it says no lease - make sure! I found a dealer with 6 zoe that the claimed to be lease free. On investigation they were loading a years worth of lease into the price so no lease (for a year)
Edited by TooLateForAName on Tuesday 16th February 11:44
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