Smart Charger vs Commando Socket
Discussion
Hi All,
In the process of looking into smart chargers and was just wondering what are the advantages/disadvantages of having a smart charger vs just a commando socket? From what I understand most EV's can handle the "smart" aspect of charging or is there anything else I am missing?
Thanks
In the process of looking into smart chargers and was just wondering what are the advantages/disadvantages of having a smart charger vs just a commando socket? From what I understand most EV's can handle the "smart" aspect of charging or is there anything else I am missing?
Thanks
Afternoon all,
Getting the OZEV grant was proving a faff for me, and I have two garages, both of which I wanted to be able to charge an EV in, so I installed two commando sockets and used the (now expired) Octopus/Ohme offer of a smart Type 2-commando cable for £199. My installation was admittedly straightforward, but it meant I got two sockets and one cable for £625 all-in.
The Ohme is indeed smart (ie a wifi connection and an app), so I don't believe I'm missing out on any functionality, and if I decide to upgrade the wallbox (eg to one with two sockets/cables) in future I have lost £60 rather than £500.
This is all to say that my solution isn't for everyone, but for me it stacks up well both for flexibility and functionality.
Best
TH
Getting the OZEV grant was proving a faff for me, and I have two garages, both of which I wanted to be able to charge an EV in, so I installed two commando sockets and used the (now expired) Octopus/Ohme offer of a smart Type 2-commando cable for £199. My installation was admittedly straightforward, but it meant I got two sockets and one cable for £625 all-in.
The Ohme is indeed smart (ie a wifi connection and an app), so I don't believe I'm missing out on any functionality, and if I decide to upgrade the wallbox (eg to one with two sockets/cables) in future I have lost £60 rather than £500.
This is all to say that my solution isn't for everyone, but for me it stacks up well both for flexibility and functionality.
Best
TH
No app sadly, but considering one of these for use at my workshop - 22kw charging 
https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
Ohme do still offer smart charging on a normal lead.
If you can get enough power in then the ability to smart charge during the cheap hours is the only reason most people require smart charging. On a plug it almost ends up pointless as you can't get much power in during the 4 hour cheap time.
If you can get enough power in then the ability to smart charge during the cheap hours is the only reason most people require smart charging. On a plug it almost ends up pointless as you can't get much power in during the 4 hour cheap time.
somouk said:
Ohme do still offer smart charging on a normal lead.
If you can get enough power in then the ability to smart charge during the cheap hours is the only reason most people require smart charging. On a plug it almost ends up pointless as you can't get much power in during the 4 hour cheap time.
On a 32a 1ph plug you'll get nearly 30kw in those 4 hours. That's way above most people's daily usage.If you can get enough power in then the ability to smart charge during the cheap hours is the only reason most people require smart charging. On a plug it almost ends up pointless as you can't get much power in during the 4 hour cheap time.
I expect a lot of people would get by quite happily on a 16a 1ph supply actually.. Although personally I'd want a faster charge rate at home just in case I have to make back to back longer journeys one week.
Teslas own brick charger can be used with a 32A commando adapter so it runs at 7kw rather than the usual 2kw. It uses different pins to power the brick charger from the higher amperage supply. This isn’t the case with any other brick charger - as far as I know everybody else’s are only ~2 kw.
Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
TheDeuce said:
No app sadly, but considering one of these for use at my workshop - 22kw charging
https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
Nice if you have a 3-phase supply, and a car that will take 22kw - my Tesla will still top-out at 11kw even on 3-phase.https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
andy43 said:
Teslas own brick charger can be used with a 32A commando adapter so it runs at 7kw rather than the usual 2kw. It uses different pins to power the brick charger from the higher amperage supply. This isn’t the case with any other brick charger - as far as I know everybody else’s are only ~2 kw.
Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
This is an important point - with a Tesla I think a 32A commando makes a lot of sense. Quite frankly the installers are ripping the piss with the price to install a "smart" charger and are scooping up all the grant money which were meant to benefit consumers and aren't.Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
However, with other cars where you'd have to buy a new charging cable - which can add a couple of hundred quid to the equation - then you might be better with one of the low-end "smart" type-2 chargers. There's no real need for a lot of the smart functionality in the chargers as it is often surpassed by the settings available in the car - IME the"smart" functionality is very basic and poorly implemented in the chargers.
Order66 said:
andy43 said:
Teslas own brick charger can be used with a 32A commando adapter so it runs at 7kw rather than the usual 2kw. It uses different pins to power the brick charger from the higher amperage supply. This isn’t the case with any other brick charger - as far as I know everybody else’s are only ~2 kw.
Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
This is an important point - with a Tesla I think a 32A commando makes a lot of sense. Quite frankly the installers are ripping the piss with the price to install a "smart" charger and are scooping up all the grant money which were meant to benefit consumers and aren't.Any normal 7kw charger would already be 32A capable so the only benefit of adding a commando socket to power a smart charger instead of hardwiring it would be the portability it would offer.
However, with other cars where you'd have to buy a new charging cable - which can add a couple of hundred quid to the equation - then you might be better with one of the low-end "smart" type-2 chargers. There's no real need for a lot of the smart functionality in the chargers as it is often surpassed by the settings available in the car - IME the"smart" functionality is very basic and poorly implemented in the chargers.
Obviously even better if the car has the timing functions built in too.
Order66 said:
TheDeuce said:
No app sadly, but considering one of these for use at my workshop - 22kw charging
https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
Nice if you have a 3-phase supply, and a car that will take 22kw - my Tesla will still top-out at 11kw even on 3-phase.https://www.evchargingcablestore.com/type2-cee-3ph...
.Iirc my Model S takes 16kW. The only place where that's an advantage is places where you are for an hour or maybe two. At my parents, at the gym,... at home it's not necessary for anyone except the outliers to have 3 phase imho.
gmaz said:
Isn't there specific earthing requirements if you use a commando socket? E.g. needs an earth rod or something?
For most was chargers yes...But not according to the manufacturers of the charger bricks..
All safety is satisfactorily addressed (by the regs at least) by the protection built in to the charger itself.
That's not to say plugging one in is always as safe as is ideal, you want to be confident in the condition of the socket, circuit and suitable circuit protection.
TheDeuce said:
You could get a cheaper single phase 32a brick charger without the smart functions and just install a 32a socket with a digital timer module inline to limit charging to overnight. Most such timers have a manual on switch you could tap if you're in a rush to charge and want to start straight away too.
Obviously even better if the car has the timing functions built in too.
You made me look on ebay - yes it's possible to buy a non-Tesla 32A brick - I wasn't aware they existed!Obviously even better if the car has the timing functions built in too.
That'd be an easy option to plug into our £25 commando socket if we go non-Tesla with our next EV.
Not sure that one's the correct commando - I thought the red one was 16A - but it'd be easy to swap.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203794952593?hash=item2...
andy43 said:
TheDeuce said:
You could get a cheaper single phase 32a brick charger without the smart functions and just install a 32a socket with a digital timer module inline to limit charging to overnight. Most such timers have a manual on switch you could tap if you're in a rush to charge and want to start straight away too.
Obviously even better if the car has the timing functions built in too.
You made me look on ebay - yes it's possible to buy a non-Tesla 32A brick - I wasn't aware they existed!Obviously even better if the car has the timing functions built in too.
That'd be an easy option to plug into our £25 commando socket if we go non-Tesla with our next EV.
Not sure that one's the correct commando - I thought the red one was 16A - but it'd be easy to swap.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203794952593?hash=item2...
You can buy an equivalent to that charger with a 32a single phase (blue) plug. Assuming you don't have 3 phase that is?
TheDeuce said:
gmaz said:
Isn't there specific earthing requirements if you use a commando socket? E.g. needs an earth rod or something?
For most was chargers yes...But not according to the manufacturers of the charger bricks..
All safety is satisfactorily addressed (by the regs at least) by the protection built in to the charger itself.
That's not to say plugging one in is always as safe as is ideal, you want to be confident in the condition of the socket, circuit and suitable circuit protection.
No ideas for a name said:
TheDeuce said:
gmaz said:
Isn't there specific earthing requirements if you use a commando socket? E.g. needs an earth rod or something?
For most was chargers yes...But not according to the manufacturers of the charger bricks..
All safety is satisfactorily addressed (by the regs at least) by the protection built in to the charger itself.
That's not to say plugging one in is always as safe as is ideal, you want to be confident in the condition of the socket, circuit and suitable circuit protection.
TheDeuce said:
That may be the case but several manufacturers of these things say they can be plugged in to any compatible industrial socket. In exactly the same way a 13a plugged granny charger can be legitimately plugged in to any 13a socket - although of course, that doesn't always mean things are as safe as they could be in an ideal world.
EV 'charging' all seems to be a little bit like the 'Wild West' at the moment.Some manufacturers do seem to state it will be fine to basically ignore the standards. They will make that claim because they believe they have complied by use of either built-in or secondary O-PEN devices, various types of RCD etc.
Consumers don't seem to 'want' an earth rod as they see that as an extra cost or something else to install - so are going to favour a EVSE that claims it doesn't need one.
Broken neutral is rare but the risk is real. All these people who just assume it will be fine to use a standard socket, be that 13A or 16/32A Commando will get away with it most of the time. There will be occasions where they don't.
The regulations, though still evolving, seem sensible - but many people seem to want to find a 'work around'.
We then get on to the state of some consumer unit installs - pulling high currents even at the 13A for hours on end will cause a load of problems at some sites
Assuming someone has just dropped £40-60k on an EV, I don't see why they wont spend a few £100 on the infrastructure to go with it.
It appears that a professional install of a proper EVSE doesn't always address all these issues either though.
Bottom line is people don't seem to see the value in a properly installed and safe supply.
Sorry - gone in to semi-rant mode!
No ideas for a name said:
TheDeuce said:
That may be the case but several manufacturers of these things say they can be plugged in to any compatible industrial socket. In exactly the same way a 13a plugged granny charger can be legitimately plugged in to any 13a socket - although of course, that doesn't always mean things are as safe as they could be in an ideal world.
EV 'charging' all seems to be a little bit like the 'Wild West' at the moment.Some manufacturers do seem to state it will be fine to basically ignore the standards. They will make that claim because they believe they have complied by use of either built-in or secondary O-PEN devices, various types of RCD etc.
Consumers don't seem to 'want' an earth rod as they see that as an extra cost or something else to install - so are going to favour a EVSE that claims it doesn't need one.
Broken neutral is rare but the risk is real. All these people who just assume it will be fine to use a standard socket, be that 13A or 16/32A Commando will get away with it most of the time. There will be occasions where they don't.
The regulations, though still evolving, seem sensible - but many people seem to want to find a 'work around'.
We then get on to the state of some consumer unit installs - pulling high currents even at the 13A for hours on end will cause a load of problems at some sites
Assuming someone has just dropped £40-60k on an EV, I don't see why they wont spend a few £100 on the infrastructure to go with it.
It appears that a professional install of a proper EVSE doesn't always address all these issues either though.
Bottom line is people don't seem to see the value in a properly installed and safe supply.
Sorry - gone in to semi-rant mode!
The problem is that the end user can then plug it in to literally and compatible socket - and it's the sockets that are often protected insufficiently - which isn't really the charger manufacturers responsibility. External/outhouse sockets are frequently not full compliant with regs let alone ideal for charging from, albeit in 99.99% of cases it will never cause a problem. I guess there must be at least half a million granny chargers in the UK alone by now and no news stories about endless house fires and so on.
My biggest concern is that some people are just too tight to do things properly or even give thought to why things should be done a certain way - some will have a consumer unit in their garage already and be looking at a £20 16a 1ph socket on in Screwfix and thinking "hmmm looks straight forward..." And a couple of hours worth of s
tty DIY later they have a freshly installed, fully compatible, fully UNTESTED and totally inadequately protected new circuit and socket in their garage. They'll plug in their aftermarket on cable charger in and it'll work just fine - so all good 
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