Daughter wants small Auto - BMW 116i SE?
Discussion
My middle daughter has had her manual licence for 2 years and spent her learning and 1st year in a MINI R56 One.
Now she's about to be commuting to a new job on a daily basis and is after an auto. I'm looking at small autos at <£5k and have gone through a bit of a list:
- Toyota IQ
- MINI
- Fiesta
- Polo
- BMW 116i SE
The preferences at the moment are the Polo and the BMW. Any advice from anyone on the 116i? Appreciate it's going to be dog slow, particularly with the auto box. I'm pretty up to speed with 1-series in general but don't know much about the 116i in particular. 120bhp version.
All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received!
Now she's about to be commuting to a new job on a daily basis and is after an auto. I'm looking at small autos at <£5k and have gone through a bit of a list:
- Toyota IQ
- MINI
- Fiesta
- Polo
- BMW 116i SE
The preferences at the moment are the Polo and the BMW. Any advice from anyone on the 116i? Appreciate it's going to be dog slow, particularly with the auto box. I'm pretty up to speed with 1-series in general but don't know much about the 116i in particular. 120bhp version.
All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received!
Very good and timely question as I am looking for an auto in the same sort of price range. I have considered the 1 series myself, but from the investigation I have done it would appear all 4 cylinder engines from this era are terrible and are ticking time bombs.
The choice to me seems to be
1)A DSG type box which if it goes wrong is going to be very expensive.
2)A CVT type box which I personally don't like as the revs rise and the gearbox tries to catch up
3)A traditional torque converter gearbox, but on small cars these seem to be four speed only and based on an ancient design.
It seems to me that a small car with a traditional torque converter six speed gearbox is virtually impossible to find.
What are the earlier Audi S Tronic gearboxes as fitted to A1s and early A3s like?
Aren't the Ford gearboxes called a 'Powershift' which is like a DSG only even less reliable?
Also for those that have driven a DSG, does it drive like a normal auto? Does it creep when you take your foot off the brake and does it roll back on hills? I have also heard they can be a bit clunky at slow speeds?
The choice to me seems to be
1)A DSG type box which if it goes wrong is going to be very expensive.
2)A CVT type box which I personally don't like as the revs rise and the gearbox tries to catch up
3)A traditional torque converter gearbox, but on small cars these seem to be four speed only and based on an ancient design.
It seems to me that a small car with a traditional torque converter six speed gearbox is virtually impossible to find.
What are the earlier Audi S Tronic gearboxes as fitted to A1s and early A3s like?
Aren't the Ford gearboxes called a 'Powershift' which is like a DSG only even less reliable?
Also for those that have driven a DSG, does it drive like a normal auto? Does it creep when you take your foot off the brake and does it roll back on hills? I have also heard they can be a bit clunky at slow speeds?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st June 14:02
MDifficult said:
My middle daughter has had her manual licence for 2 years and spent her learning and 1st year in a MINI R56 One.
Now she's about to be commuting to a new job on a daily basis and is after an auto. I'm looking at small autos at <£5k and have gone through a bit of a list:
- Toyota IQ
- MINI
- Fiesta
- Polo
- BMW 116i SE
The preferences at the moment are the Polo and the BMW. Any advice from anyone on the 116i? Appreciate it's going to be dog slow, particularly with the auto box. I'm pretty up to speed with 1-series in general but don't know much about the 116i in particular. 120bhp version.
All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received!
Is the 1 series the first (E87) model that you are looking for? Depending on year they were originally 1.6 then were offered as a detuned (122bhp) 2.0 from about 2009. I think the later 2.0 with a torque converter auto would be fine - quite a torquey engine. We test drove a manual version a few years ago and it was way quicker than you would think from the badge alone.Now she's about to be commuting to a new job on a daily basis and is after an auto. I'm looking at small autos at <£5k and have gone through a bit of a list:
- Toyota IQ
- MINI
- Fiesta
- Polo
- BMW 116i SE
The preferences at the moment are the Polo and the BMW. Any advice from anyone on the 116i? Appreciate it's going to be dog slow, particularly with the auto box. I'm pretty up to speed with 1-series in general but don't know much about the 116i in particular. 120bhp version.
All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received!
You're spot on, and part of the reason we landed on the Polo and the BMW (she also prefers them in general).
For the Polo, budget juuuust about stretches to the DSG models. I used to have a DSG R32 Golf and the gearbox was fantastic even back in 2006.
For the BMW, my logic is a that its a bit of a bigger car and BMW are pretty handy at autos (or at least their suppliers are) because they're set for much more demanding engines elsewhere in the range.
For the Polo, budget juuuust about stretches to the DSG models. I used to have a DSG R32 Golf and the gearbox was fantastic even back in 2006.
For the BMW, my logic is a that its a bit of a bigger car and BMW are pretty handy at autos (or at least their suppliers are) because they're set for much more demanding engines elsewhere in the range.
The BMW will be the nicer place to sit out of the ones you listed.
Its not going to be a rocket ship but it will be a nice and comfortable ride.
Guessing you have suggested the 116i rather than the 118/120 for insurance reasons?
Looking online they all share the same N46 engine I think which is the 2.0 N/A?
Assuming its the N46, they can suffer a few issues. Namely the timing chain can jump a tooth or two randomly. Our Z4 had this engine and we got away with it, chain guide snapped and it jumped a tooth. £300 later is was fine but something to be aware of.
Its not going to be a rocket ship but it will be a nice and comfortable ride.
Guessing you have suggested the 116i rather than the 118/120 for insurance reasons?
Looking online they all share the same N46 engine I think which is the 2.0 N/A?
Assuming its the N46, they can suffer a few issues. Namely the timing chain can jump a tooth or two randomly. Our Z4 had this engine and we got away with it, chain guide snapped and it jumped a tooth. £300 later is was fine but something to be aware of.
Edited by Wagonwheel555 on Monday 21st June 14:33
Toyota iQ is interesting because it's got a different box to the equivalent year Yaris, Yaris would have MMT..avoid like the plague even Toyota can't make these robotised manual things reliable when you think in terms of Toyota years..with the 1.3 engine its a decent enough and very compact design.
Pistonheader101 said:
Wouldn’t worry about the scare stories about the bmw petrol engines.
It’s like saying all diesel cars have dpf issues.
I believe the N46 has been described as "the worst engine BMW have ever made". As was said earlier, they have a habit of the cam chain stretching and jumping a tooth.It’s like saying all diesel cars have dpf issues.
My fear with these sort of cars in the £5K range is the owner knows there is a problem so gets shot of the car. You then discover the problem and are in the dilema of buying a £5K no mans land car. If it was a shed you would weigh it in, but at £5K you are resigned to spending the money to get it fixed. You then end up throwing more and more money at it chasing issues as you have spent so much on it already.
For £2K I would take the gamble, but not at £5K
Om said:
Is the 1 series the first (E87) model that you are looking for? Depending on year they were originally 1.6 then were offered as a detuned (122bhp) 2.0 from about 2009. I think the later 2.0 with a torque converter auto would be fine - quite a torquey engine. We test drove a manual version a few years ago and it was way quicker than you would think from the badge alone.
Cheers for that. Had a quick chat with my local BMW indy and they agreed with you - the 2.0 116i much better than the 1.6. But they pushed me towards the 118d or 120d so I might break the habit of a lifetime and look at a derv 
Wagonwheel555 said:
Guessing you have suggested the 116i rather than the 118/120 for insurance reasons?
That's right - although after a couple of quotes it's really not that much different. I though the diesels would be more expensive again, but not too bad and probably more than offset by the reduced running costsPistonheader101 said:
Wouldn’t worry about the scare stories about the bmw petrol engines.
It’s like saying all diesel cars have dpf issues.
Cheers - as per my other post, my BMW indy said to look at the Diesels, both as more robust and got a lot more shove which works better with the auto. It’s like saying all diesel cars have dpf issues.
Smint said:
Toyota iQ is interesting because it's got a different box to the equivalent year Yaris, Yaris would have MMT..avoid like the plague even Toyota can't make these robotised manual things reliable when you think in terms of Toyota years..with the 1.3 engine its a decent enough and very compact design.
The iQ was my choice 
There's one up the road and I just really admire its packaging. Great looking thing, but would absolutely want to test-drive an auto version before committing as no idea what it would be like. Sadly, my daughter is not a fan of the looks!Joey Deacon said:
I believe the N46 has been described as "the worst engine BMW have ever made". As was said earlier, they have a habit of the cam chain stretching and jumping a tooth.
My fear with these sort of cars in the £5K range is the owner knows there is a problem so gets shot of the car. You then discover the problem and are in the dilema of buying a £5K no mans land car. If it was a shed you would weigh it in, but at £5K you are resigned to spending the money to get it fixed. You then end up throwing more and more money at it chasing issues as you have spent so much on it already.
For £2K I would take the gamble, but not at £5K
You're spot on - definitely hunting with my eyes open. My fear with these sort of cars in the £5K range is the owner knows there is a problem so gets shot of the car. You then discover the problem and are in the dilema of buying a £5K no mans land car. If it was a shed you would weigh it in, but at £5K you are resigned to spending the money to get it fixed. You then end up throwing more and more money at it chasing issues as you have spent so much on it already.
For £2K I would take the gamble, but not at £5K
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
ElectricSoup said:
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
You and I think the same, after a lot of investigation I have come to the conclusion that the Vauxhall Astra J is the best value TC auto you are going to get for under £5K. Also in the past I seriously thought about getting a brand new manual version of the Tipo when Fiat were selling them for £9995. You are right about the Auto Tipo being rare though, there seems to be 4 autos out of 94 cars on eBay.Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
I am 100% about getting the most bang for my buck, I personally don't care about the badge on the front.
ElectricSoup said:
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
I hear you, and it's a great recommendation - but equally she's a young girl where image is important, and I want to encourage her to use the car, strive for her independence etc. Also, the more proud of her car she is... the less chance she's getting into lad's cars instead Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
Right now, the Polo seems to be winning the day. Has the added benefit that there seem to be a few one-owner, very low mileage autos out there. Almost certainly cars owned by the elderly who've given up/passed on but with exemplary VW and MOT histories and pretty close to budget. I think I'm going to start there unless anyone's got any horror stories about the Polo?
ElectricSoup said:
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Can you not just suggest the car rather than going off on some strange rant!Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
MDifficult said:
ElectricSoup said:
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
I hear you, and it's a great recommendation - but equally she's a young girl where image is important, and I want to encourage her to use the car, strive for her independence etc. Also, the more proud of her car she is... the less chance she's getting into lad's cars instead Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
I'm going through similar myself with a boy about to turn 17 and looking around for a car (obvs manual in this case) for him. He says pretty much anything is fine except a Vauxhall of any kind. But ideally wants "something Japanese". Shouldn't have let him watch Tokyo Drift.
My daughter is 13 and wants a "white washing machine" car - by which she means an Aygo or the like.
Good luck getting it right!
PH User said:
ElectricSoup said:
I know absolutely nobody on this forum is going to care, because it's just the wrong badge, but there's a 1.6 petrol verison of the FIAT Tipo which comes with a proper 6-speed torque converter auto. They're under rated cars, and very good value scond hand, although rare because of badge snobbery and the under rating thing. That would be my choice, but I'm more interested in value and function over image.
Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Can you not just suggest the car rather than going off on some strange rant!Oh, and again in the same badge snobbery vein, the most recent Vauxhall Astras are jolly nice and also come with TC autos.
You don't have to have DSG/CVT rubbish if you look beyond the badges.
Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 21st June 15:35
Is that better?
My apologies for a trying to inject a little colour into a slightly dull subject.
SAS Tom said:
Similar to the polo you could get an Ibiza or Fabia. Possibly a better car for the same money.
Normally, I'd say that's a great shout. Sadly though, the Fabia of the same generation isn't much cheaper and really isn't much of a looker. An Ibiza with DSG seems to be like hens teeth. They also both seem to have sold extensively with the 1.2, rather than the 1.4 in the Polo. 
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