What's like a faster, possibly more refined Pug 107?

[Inspectorclueso]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a 2008 Peugeot 107 as a learner car for my son. I've been running around in it and I have to say I really like it...The daily up to this point has been either an M4 or a Discovery, but the 107 is just so easy, nippy, rides well, gets into spaces without any hassle and is clearly very simple.

In addition I love the fact that it's £20 tax and is proving to be super economical.

The only real drawbacks I have are a) there's lots of road noise b) If you do need a bit more power, it's clearly not there

So, any views on similar size cars, but that address these two points, at sub £3k ?

I wonder about an early mini, or Clio, haven't really looked at prices yet.

[ZX10R NIN]

Look at the RS Twingo.

[InitialDave]

ZX10R NIN said:

Look at the RS Twingo.

They're faster, but tbh feel about as tinny.

The Panda 100HP isn't as big a margin in performance, but feels surprisingly solid.

[Darkslider]

In true recommend what you own style, my girlfriend has an Alfa Romeo MiTo that would fit the bill. 1.4 turbo engine, 155bhp, Brembo 4 pot front brakes, Bose sound system etc, it's a nippy little pocket rocket that's just refined enough to not feel like a biscuit tin.

[Inspectorclueso]

Boo-urns said:

A Peugeot 207?

In all seriousness, the 207 is a fairly good car IF you get one of the early TU-engined ones. Avoid the later Prince engine models.

The TU engine is an old-school 16v NA petrol engine producing 110bhp. Bulletproof and perky, if not exactly fast.

I believe Bearman68 on the 'Joy of Running an Old Shed' thread rates the 1.4-litre diesel as well.

Thanks for rec on 207, may take a look. I should have said, def no diesels. I'm generally trying to get out of them, current disco is a temporary exception.

A few bits I came across whilst browsing

- Mini Cooper S, never had one, looks like you can get an R53 or R56, with c.100k for sub £3k. I think though there maybe some expensive issues if I drop unlucky

- Random one, there seems to be a Yaris 1.3 with more than 100bhp and low tax

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308130...

Edited by Inspectorclueso on Monday 20th November 19:17

[Neil1323bolts]

ZX10R NIN said:

Look at the RS Twingo.

These are absolutely cracking little cars, just need to find a good one

[Inspectorclueso]

Scope creep kicking in. Didn't take long.

Tax is £365, but never had one and could be fun I guess !

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310253...

[ZX10R NIN]

Darkslider said:

In true recommend what you own style, my girlfriend has an Alfa Romeo MiTo that would fit the bill. 1.4 turbo engine, 155bhp, Brembo 4 pot front brakes, Bose sound system etc, it's a nippy little pocket rocket that's just refined enough to not feel like a biscuit tin.

+1 to this but you could also get a full fat C;overleaf:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310273...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309011...

[Hammer67]

Micra 160SR

[pidsy]

Abarth in 135 guise?

[HustleRussell]

Inspectorclueso said:

Random one, there seems to be a Yaris 1.3 with more than 100bhp and low tax

Yaris is probably exactly as tinny as the 107

[georgeyboy12345]

Alfa Romeo Mito TwinAir

Sportiva
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...

Live
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308060...



Renault Twingo TCe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307169...



Seat Ibiza 1.4 TSI ACT FR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311073...

[AnhBanhBao]

+1 for the Panda 100HP being put together better than most think. Mine used to ape the sound of a Golf when you closed its doors.

[defblade]

Inspectorclueso said:

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a 2008 Peugeot 107 as a learner car for my son. I've been running around in it and I have to say I really like it...The daily up to this point has been either an M4 or a Discovery, but the 107 is just so easy, nippy, rides well, gets into spaces without any hassle and is clearly very simple.

In addition I love the fact that it's £20 tax and is proving to be super economical.

The only real drawbacks I have are a) there's lots of road noise b) If you do need a bit more power, it's clearly not there

So, any views on similar size cars, but that address these two points, at sub £3k ?

I wonder about an early mini, or Clio, haven't really looked at prices yet.

If you want to address (a) you will have to add a load of (heavy) NVH-absorbing material. You will lose a good chunk of the nippy, good ride, small size (unless you lose interior space instead), and good mpg. Power:weight will fall further.

To address (b) you'd mostly need a bigger engine as there's not a lot of room for making it lighter; there's few options that hit this in this end of the market. And, if nothing else, you'll pay in mpg... and if you want to address (a) as well you need to go bigger again to make up for the weight... And also you'll need bigger, heavier tyres for the more extra power; bigger, heavier brakes (which will likely need servicing more often); bigger, heavier fuel tank to get the same range; etc etc...



The 107/aygo/c1 win from a virtuous circle of lightness - the less of everything you have, the less you need.


The 2 main drawbacks of this are, as you say, noise and (lack of) power.
I never found our Aygo unable to keep up with traffic, but you do have to accept that overtakes are going to be extremely rare.
And I fitted some better speakers and a more powerful stereo

[Inspectorclueso]

defblade said:

If you want to address (a) you will have to add a load of (heavy) NVH-absorbing material. You will lose a good chunk of the nippy, good ride, small size (unless you lose interior space instead), and good mpg. Power:weight will fall further.

To address (b) you'd mostly need a bigger engine as there's not a lot of room for making it lighter; there's few options that hit this in this end of the market. And, if nothing else, you'll pay in mpg... and if you want to address (a) as well you need to go bigger again to make up for the weight... And also you'll need bigger, heavier tyres for the more extra power; bigger, heavier brakes (which will likely need servicing more often); bigger, heavier fuel tank to get the same range; etc etc...



The 107/aygo/c1 win from a virtuous circle of lightness - the less of everything you have, the less you need.


The 2 main drawbacks of this are, as you say, noise and (lack of) power.
I never found our Aygo unable to keep up with traffic, but you do have to accept that overtakes are going to be extremely rare.
And I fitted some better speakers and a more powerful stereo

All good points and I'm coming to the same conclusion about them being a fairly unique offering in the relatively modern motoring world It was also great value at £1200, with a few of the options being cited more like £3k, which is no great issue, but I'm loving the feeling of next to no money tied up.

Given the difficulties of getting youngsters through the driving test regime, I could be tooling around in it for some time anyway I sense.

Having said that and I didn't think I'd hear myself say this, I do quite like the look of the 100hp Panda

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311083...

[sosidge]

VW Up with a turbo. TSI or GTI. Not sure any of them fall into that old £20-ish tax bracket though.

Sorry just saw 3k limit. You won't find a higher powered Up for that.

[Save Ferris]

HustleRussell said:

Inspectorclueso said:

Random one, there seems to be a Yaris 1.3 with more than 100bhp and low tax

Yaris is probably exactly as tinny as the 107

The Aygo will be the same, the Yaris 1.33 is way more refined.

[XR]

Suzuki Swift Sport

[ChrisH72]

Fiesta Zetec S

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023110637...

Plenty around and should do pretty much what you’re looking for.

[Ilovejapcrap]

XR said:

Suzuki Swift Sport

This