how hard is it to build an original kit car ?
Discussion
Are you talking about producing a one-off for your own use or starting a business to sell these cars?
If it is for yourself and you need to ask how difficult then I'm afraid this is not a task you should take on. IMHO someone who could do this will already know the difficulties they face and will have the confidence in their own ability to pull it off.
If on the other hand it is a question of how to set up the business and what would it cost then that is a different matter. I've not done it but some on here are heading that way so may be able to advise. Needless to say you will need a huge sum of money as you will most likely spend the first year or maybe two of full time work (unpaid) before you get anywhere near a first production kit.
You will also need to be supremely confident that lots of people will want that model.
It is very much like the Ultima so you could do worse than buy one of those second-hand and evolve your chassis and body design from there.
I'm with you on this as I would also love to be in the business but despite the fact that I regard myself as a reasonably competent engineer I'm also a realist and accept that this is way beyond me to make a viable business.
Remember, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Steve
If it is for yourself and you need to ask how difficult then I'm afraid this is not a task you should take on. IMHO someone who could do this will already know the difficulties they face and will have the confidence in their own ability to pull it off.
If on the other hand it is a question of how to set up the business and what would it cost then that is a different matter. I've not done it but some on here are heading that way so may be able to advise. Needless to say you will need a huge sum of money as you will most likely spend the first year or maybe two of full time work (unpaid) before you get anywhere near a first production kit.
You will also need to be supremely confident that lots of people will want that model.
It is very much like the Ultima so you could do worse than buy one of those second-hand and evolve your chassis and body design from there.
I'm with you on this as I would also love to be in the business but despite the fact that I regard myself as a reasonably competent engineer I'm also a realist and accept that this is way beyond me to make a viable business.
Remember, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Steve
try these:
dpcars
pick the fourth pic down, which is under the three bikes, and then go to page 1. From there click on "initial design phase" and go to page 1. Fantastic project.
grabercars
A home build that very nearly looks like a production car. Now being turned into a kit. Theres a good blog of the design from first sketches onwards plus a forum to discuss your owm car ideas.
meerkat
A car that looks like a kit, not in a bad way, but in a "I built this and it's great fun!" way. Great build blog. IIRC it was never finished which is a shame.
dpcars
pick the fourth pic down, which is under the three bikes, and then go to page 1. From there click on "initial design phase" and go to page 1. Fantastic project.
grabercars
A home build that very nearly looks like a production car. Now being turned into a kit. Theres a good blog of the design from first sketches onwards plus a forum to discuss your owm car ideas.
meerkat
A car that looks like a kit, not in a bad way, but in a "I built this and it's great fun!" way. Great build blog. IIRC it was never finished which is a shame.
I know that I have over $400k invested in the design and execution of the Superlite Coupe prototypes and being able to make the whole car a production/business process.....
Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
http://www.superlitecars.com/coupe_images.html
Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
http://www.superlitecars.com/coupe_images.html
Edited by Fran Hall on Sunday 27th April 20:32
I'm not usually a fan of kit cars but Fran those are very nice designs. From the pics they look well engineered.
What's the coupe like on a hot day? Is air con a necessity?
The roadster looks like a bargain imo. How much would you say it would cost to get it from a rolling chassis to finished article with say a Honda vtec unit?
What's the coupe like on a hot day? Is air con a necessity?
The roadster looks like a bargain imo. How much would you say it would cost to get it from a rolling chassis to finished article with say a Honda vtec unit?
Rodent ..thanks
The Coupe comes with AC as standard..also power tilt and telescoping steering column and switchgear.
I have three Honda K20 packages for customers roadsters in the shop at present.The drivetrain package runs approx 5-6k usd.It all depends upon JDM or US domestic as to what else is needed.
The JDM can run off the stock ECU with a jumper harness whereas the US spec needs a reflash/ standalone..
Full up cost ready to drive is between 23-24k usd...the Roadster is quite complete as delivered...rolling...for the 16kusd pricetag.
The Coupe comes with AC as standard..also power tilt and telescoping steering column and switchgear.
I have three Honda K20 packages for customers roadsters in the shop at present.The drivetrain package runs approx 5-6k usd.It all depends upon JDM or US domestic as to what else is needed.
The JDM can run off the stock ECU with a jumper harness whereas the US spec needs a reflash/ standalone..
Full up cost ready to drive is between 23-24k usd...the Roadster is quite complete as delivered...rolling...for the 16kusd pricetag.
Fran Hall said:
I have a very mildly tuned LS7 making over 625hp and a Ricardo transaxle in the demo.
I designed the chassis to except almost any longitudinal drivetrain 4/6/810 cyl...also just about any transaxle too....
Just out of interest, which Ricardo Tranny are you using Fran? All this time I've been looking at transaxles I didn't even think of them - which is a bit daft as I know someone that works there...!I designed the chassis to except almost any longitudinal drivetrain 4/6/810 cyl...also just about any transaxle too....
Edited by Fran Hall on Monday 28th April 12:44
The New Ford GT....will relaibaly hold 1000hp.
We make our own conversions and flywheels
I have been using that box for a while...its the only production box in 30 years that has been OEM tested and designed from day one to hold V8 torque and power...its a shoe-in.
We make our own conversions and flywheels
I have been using that box for a while...its the only production box in 30 years that has been OEM tested and designed from day one to hold V8 torque and power...its a shoe-in.
Edited by Fran Hall on Tuesday 29th April 11:47
Fran Hall said:
The New Ford GT....will relaibaly hold 1000hp.
I have been doing conversions using that box for a while...its the only production box in 30 years that has been OEM tested and designed from day one to hold V8 torque and power...its a shoe-in
Sounds good - I'll have to gently remind her of some of her earlier exploits and see if I can get a discount I have been doing conversions using that box for a while...its the only production box in 30 years that has been OEM tested and designed from day one to hold V8 torque and power...its a shoe-in
The biggest single problem is probably making the bodywork.
The traditional kit car approach is to make a buck (time consuming), then make molds from the buck (space consuming) and finally take panels from the molds (more space and more time). It can be done cheaply but you need a big shed and a long time to do it.
A few kit cars however have been made from a hand made alloy prototype, which was used as a buck. The big advantage been that the buck is a driveable prototype that you can keep even if no one ever buys the kit plus you do don't need to take molds and then make panels to get to this stage though you obviously will if decide to make any more. I think one of the GD its and the Caterham 21 were done this way.
Sabaro used a cage of metal tubes which was covered with fibre glass and lots and lots of body filler. Again this got a driveable prototype but at the cost of a heavy body.
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
The traditional kit car approach is to make a buck (time consuming), then make molds from the buck (space consuming) and finally take panels from the molds (more space and more time). It can be done cheaply but you need a big shed and a long time to do it.
A few kit cars however have been made from a hand made alloy prototype, which was used as a buck. The big advantage been that the buck is a driveable prototype that you can keep even if no one ever buys the kit plus you do don't need to take molds and then make panels to get to this stage though you obviously will if decide to make any more. I think one of the GD its and the Caterham 21 were done this way.
Sabaro used a cage of metal tubes which was covered with fibre glass and lots and lots of body filler. Again this got a driveable prototype but at the cost of a heavy body.
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
cymtriks said:
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
are you trying to sugest a metal skin over the traditional wooden buck to build the first body?also consider what 9FF did with there GT9, chop the front/back/roof of a car and then add the rest as you need or want.
ezakimak said:
cymtriks said:
Has anyone ever costed an alloy bodyshell for a one off car? Has anyone else managed to think of a way to simplify the time, effort, space restraints and mess of the traditional buck-mold-bodywork approach?
are you trying to sugest a metal skin over the traditional wooden buck to build the first body?also consider what 9FF did with there GT9, chop the front/back/roof of a car and then add the rest as you need or want.
Has anyone ever costed a one off alloy body versus a one off fibre glass buck-molds-body approach?
I'm actually involved in developing a kit car at the moment. When designing a car it rapidly becomes obvious that the bodywork is the most expensive or time consuming aspect of the build.
The approach that I am taking is to build a car the requires little in the way of bodywork. Yes, I would love to do a Le Mans prototype style car but I'm just not in a position to do so right now, hence my choosing to do a different style of car altogether.
On the other hand, the more of the cars internal structure that is exposed, the more attractive that needs to be! (Ariel Atom is a good example)
The approach that I am taking is to build a car the requires little in the way of bodywork. Yes, I would love to do a Le Mans prototype style car but I'm just not in a position to do so right now, hence my choosing to do a different style of car altogether.
On the other hand, the more of the cars internal structure that is exposed, the more attractive that needs to be! (Ariel Atom is a good example)
Fran Hall said:
I know that I have over $400k invested in the design and execution of the Superlite Coupe prototypes and being able to make the whole car a production/business process.....
Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
http://www.superlitecars.com/coupe_images.html
Fran,Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
http://www.superlitecars.com/coupe_images.html
Edited by Fran Hall on Sunday 27th April 20:32
I was looking at the fantastic looking black Superlite Coupe pics on another thread, the yellow car on your site does not do it justice.
So are we talking 22 GBP for everything bar interior, engine & drive train?
What about the chassis, is it a tubular space frame or is the body of a monocoque construction?
I think you would get a lot of interest over here, when will it be available in the UK?
Edited by Erich Stahler on Monday 19th May 22:30
singlecoil said:
I'm actually involved in developing a kit car at the moment. When designing a car it rapidly becomes obvious that the bodywork is the most expensive or time consuming aspect of the build.
Indeed. However, companies that skimp on that do so at their peril. An ugly body design can break an otherwise decent car.Case in point: kit car a few years ago - I can't even remember what it was called. Ugly as sin, got a panning on the GS here, then the designer came in and told us all we knew nothing, to which it was politely pointed out that we were his target customer and if he wasn't going to listen to a cost-free market survey / customer clinic then there was little hope of success. It all ended in tears. Or probably bankruptcy. Or both.
Fran Hall said:
I know that I have over $400k invested in the design and execution of the Superlite Coupe prototypes and being able to make the whole car a production/business process.....
Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
I like that look of that Fran. I'd be interested in knowing how much a decent-spec turnkey car would be though - quite a bit more than £22k I'd imagine. Selling the car at approx 22k pounds as a roller with AC, double adjustable shocks, alum rad. etc etc etc ... it takes a long time to recoup the investment nevermind make a profit..but it has to be price and quality targeted for the marketplace to be successful
I love the styling though. Very Le Mans Prototype / Group C, of course. Hints of 90's Peugeot LM to me for some reason, but in a good way.
Edited by JonRB on Monday 19th May 22:53
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