Which Porsche 911 for £20-30K?
Discussion
I've just nipped over from the PCGB forum as I wanted to ask a question to all Porsche owners rather than just getting understandably biased opinions on the models owned by the people responding....
I currently drive an SC but in the New Year thinking of changing for another Porsche. My total budget will be up to £30k depending on which model I buy. There a quite a quite few Porsche models which fit this budget so I was hoping for a few pointers from you guys.
My plan is to buy it outright, with a view to adding 10K to my budget every few years - the ultimate aim is to own a 993 GT2.
I therefore don't want to buy something which will depreciate too quickly, and I also want something which is faster than the SC.
My shortlist is as follows:
1. 930 Turbo. Either stock or one of the 'tuned' versions I've seen on the market (DP Motorsport / Kremer)
2. 964 Turbo.
3. 993 carrera 2 (most probably) or 4. I like the idea of a Speed Yellow RS lookalike 993 while aiming for the GT2.
4. Finally, and no offence to anyone intended - but it has to be a 911 or derivative.
All the above have their pro's and con's - little depreciation Vs potentially more, original 911 style Vs facelifts, different driving experiences, etc.
I'm sure this can't be a unique dilemma - so what would (or did) you do?
Thanks for your views,
Rich
Team Gulp Racing
Le Mans 1997 - 2005
>> Edited by rich claridge on Thursday 22 December 12:52
I currently drive an SC but in the New Year thinking of changing for another Porsche. My total budget will be up to £30k depending on which model I buy. There a quite a quite few Porsche models which fit this budget so I was hoping for a few pointers from you guys.
My plan is to buy it outright, with a view to adding 10K to my budget every few years - the ultimate aim is to own a 993 GT2.
I therefore don't want to buy something which will depreciate too quickly, and I also want something which is faster than the SC.
My shortlist is as follows:
1. 930 Turbo. Either stock or one of the 'tuned' versions I've seen on the market (DP Motorsport / Kremer)
2. 964 Turbo.
3. 993 carrera 2 (most probably) or 4. I like the idea of a Speed Yellow RS lookalike 993 while aiming for the GT2.
4. Finally, and no offence to anyone intended - but it has to be a 911 or derivative.
All the above have their pro's and con's - little depreciation Vs potentially more, original 911 style Vs facelifts, different driving experiences, etc.
I'm sure this can't be a unique dilemma - so what would (or did) you do?
Thanks for your views,
Rich
Team Gulp Racing
Le Mans 1997 - 2005
>> Edited by rich claridge on Thursday 22 December 12:52
Not a bad little dilemma to have I'd say!
Clearly you are not considering any of the 996 variants (too much potential for depreciation?), but we don't want to start the whole 993v996 debate again (not that it ever ended..... or ever will!).
The only thing close to that list I've ever driven was a 993 turbo and, IMHO, it was a pretty impressive bit if kit. In fact, if it weren't for the wife saying 'you can have a 911 but it has to be a 996' I'd have broken the bank (or broken into a bank!) and gone for a 993TT.
But it's just my opinion so drive 'em all (it'll take a while to find them all), if you haven't already, and go with your heart!
What they recommending over on PCGB?
>> Edited by LeeME3 on Thursday 22 December 12:52
Clearly you are not considering any of the 996 variants (too much potential for depreciation?), but we don't want to start the whole 993v996 debate again (not that it ever ended..... or ever will!).
The only thing close to that list I've ever driven was a 993 turbo and, IMHO, it was a pretty impressive bit if kit. In fact, if it weren't for the wife saying 'you can have a 911 but it has to be a 996' I'd have broken the bank (or broken into a bank!) and gone for a 993TT.
But it's just my opinion so drive 'em all (it'll take a while to find them all), if you haven't already, and go with your heart!
What they recommending over on PCGB?
>> Edited by LeeME3 on Thursday 22 December 12:52
rich claridge said:
... My total budget will be up to £30k depending on which model I buy. ...
My plan is to buy it outright, with a view to adding 10K to my budget every few years - the ultimate aim is to own a 993 GT2.
That's quite a long term plan ... assuming "few" = 3, at current prices that'll take about 30 years ... !
rich claridge said:
My shortlist is as follows:
1. 930 Turbo. Either stock or one of the 'tuned' versions I've seen on the market (DP Motorsport / Kremer)
2. 964 Turbo.
3. 993 carrera 2 (most probably) or 4. I like the idea of a Speed Yellow RS lookalike 993 while aiming for the GT2.
4. Finally, and no offence to anyone intended - but it has to be a 911 or derivative.
Of those I've driven the 964 turbo and the 993 Carrera (2 only) I would say the 993 is easier to live with, but for that money you could get a really nice 964 turbo which would probably hold its value the best.
In fact there was a RUF conversion of an Anniversary car chatted about on here a while ago that went for about that - I imagine something like that would be wholly depreciation free ... and bring your plan down to only 29 years ...
The car will do up to 6000 miles a year, mainly on weekends on Sunday blasts, and for trips to Le Mans, etc - it won't be my daily driver. It'll be insured on a 'classic' limited mileage policy.
I have a good independent who looks after my current SC, although I tend to do most things that don't need specialist tools or a stamp in the service book. LHD could be an option - I wouldn't be put off by it, although it would mean rearranging the garage so the l/h side door has access!
I have a brother who lives in Germany and I keep an eye on german classifieds and specialists local to him and importing from there wouldn't be a problem.
I want a Porsche which looks purposeful, makes me grin, is fast enough to scare me every now and then, and if I'm honest, will throw down the gauntlet to friends.
As I said the 993 GT2 is an ambition, but don't get hung up about that at the moment - I really am after anyone's real experience of my shortlist, have you had the same dilemma or any other suggestions to throw into the melting pot?
My thoughts:
930 Turbo,
Pro's: Original 911 looks.
A huge step up from the SC.
Find a good one = minimal depreciation (looking at current market)
Fairly high running costs to keep in good order.
Con's: Looks not to different to what I have already (kind of).
Potential for occasional big bills.
Potential for rust or corrosion.
Not many really good ones to chose from.
964 Turbo,
Pro's: Even quicker than the 930
Find a good one = minimal depreciation (but probably greater than the 930?)
Acceptable running costs.
Con's: Potential for occasional big bills.
Not many around to chose from.
993 C2 (I've seen a few with RS style rear wings and spoilers and things - i really want a car which looks 'purposeful'),
Pro's: I guess a totally different driving experience to an older 911 - more refined, easier on long journeys, more sedate?
I'd guess not as quick as a 930/964 turbo.
Con's: Potential for occasional big bills.
Depreciation.
Finally, does anyone know of a website where I could get performance figures for the above cars all in one place (if not I'll google).
Many thanks and sorry for all the reading (if you've made it this far!)
I have a good independent who looks after my current SC, although I tend to do most things that don't need specialist tools or a stamp in the service book. LHD could be an option - I wouldn't be put off by it, although it would mean rearranging the garage so the l/h side door has access!
I have a brother who lives in Germany and I keep an eye on german classifieds and specialists local to him and importing from there wouldn't be a problem.
I want a Porsche which looks purposeful, makes me grin, is fast enough to scare me every now and then, and if I'm honest, will throw down the gauntlet to friends.
As I said the 993 GT2 is an ambition, but don't get hung up about that at the moment - I really am after anyone's real experience of my shortlist, have you had the same dilemma or any other suggestions to throw into the melting pot?
My thoughts:
930 Turbo,
Pro's: Original 911 looks.
A huge step up from the SC.
Find a good one = minimal depreciation (looking at current market)
Fairly high running costs to keep in good order.
Con's: Looks not to different to what I have already (kind of).
Potential for occasional big bills.
Potential for rust or corrosion.
Not many really good ones to chose from.
964 Turbo,
Pro's: Even quicker than the 930
Find a good one = minimal depreciation (but probably greater than the 930?)
Acceptable running costs.
Con's: Potential for occasional big bills.
Not many around to chose from.
993 C2 (I've seen a few with RS style rear wings and spoilers and things - i really want a car which looks 'purposeful'),
Pro's: I guess a totally different driving experience to an older 911 - more refined, easier on long journeys, more sedate?
I'd guess not as quick as a 930/964 turbo.
Con's: Potential for occasional big bills.
Depreciation.
Finally, does anyone know of a website where I could get performance figures for the above cars all in one place (if not I'll google).
Many thanks and sorry for all the reading (if you've made it this far!)
a) i'd forget the performance figures, they're largely irrelevant. Go out and drive a good example of each and they will feel very very different.
For example, a 993C2 with varioram doesn't feel as fast as one without. The reality is the one with varioram is faster, but because the torque isn't as good in the one without varioram through the midrange, it picks up a lot more as it "comes on cam" and so feels quicker at the top (in reality it's just slower at the bottom).
b) a 930 is about the feel of it - if you are concerned about throwing down the gaunlet with your mates, or bragging rights down the pub, don't bother.
c) a 993C2 with some sort of aerokit is a nice car, very very useable, but i think a 964 turbo would feel more special as an occasional car, and again because it takes some time to pick up (and then punches you in the face!) it feels (and is) very fast.
So, IMHO, go drive all 3, then find yourself a nice 964 3.3 turbo (low 20's lhd, high 20's rhd).
Whatever you do, tell us about it, and then show us what you've bought
VS
For example, a 993C2 with varioram doesn't feel as fast as one without. The reality is the one with varioram is faster, but because the torque isn't as good in the one without varioram through the midrange, it picks up a lot more as it "comes on cam" and so feels quicker at the top (in reality it's just slower at the bottom).
b) a 930 is about the feel of it - if you are concerned about throwing down the gaunlet with your mates, or bragging rights down the pub, don't bother.
c) a 993C2 with some sort of aerokit is a nice car, very very useable, but i think a 964 turbo would feel more special as an occasional car, and again because it takes some time to pick up (and then punches you in the face!) it feels (and is) very fast.
So, IMHO, go drive all 3, then find yourself a nice 964 3.3 turbo (low 20's lhd, high 20's rhd).
Whatever you do, tell us about it, and then show us what you've bought
VS
The 964 turbo and the 993 c2 are very similar in performance (the 964t is quite a bit heavier approx 200lbs)
A 993 with no complicated options to go wrong that you could modify to suit your own preferences could be your best bet. If you go LHD then your budget should allow some very worth while improvements.
A 993 with no complicated options to go wrong that you could modify to suit your own preferences could be your best bet. If you go LHD then your budget should allow some very worth while improvements.
Verysideways - thanks for the advice. I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet - the 964 Turbo seems to be winning me over the more I look at it. I wanted to sound out a few people first, as I really don't want to waste any sellers time test driving (whether private or trade). Many thanks for the input.
Domster - a 964RS would be excellent, but can I really find a good one for less than £30k? All the ads I've seen tend to be mid to high 30's?
Rich
>> Edited by rich claridge on Thursday 22 December 16:30
Domster - a 964RS would be excellent, but can I really find a good one for less than £30k? All the ads I've seen tend to be mid to high 30's?
Rich
>> Edited by rich claridge on Thursday 22 December 16:30
rich claridge said:
...the 964 Turbo seems to be winning me over the more I look at it.....
Given that your ultimate aim is to own a 993GT2, the 964 turbo would be a good introduction to RWD turboed porkers and as such good training for handling the sudden arrival of ridiculous power mid-corner!
From what I've read in various threads on PH, the 3.3 version is a better bet than the 3.6 though someone may come and correct me on that. Also, it is a strong engine capable of taking the power upgrades that might feel necessary once you've got used to that turbo woooosh!
Best of luck on your hunt.
To answer your earlier question (and I do agree with VS btw about the figures being largely irrelevant) Portiacraft have basic stats for each model on their website: www.portiacraft.com/
You'll see that on paper, they all are about the same.
Its the "feel" that differs.
Dom, could you get a LHD 964RS for 30K?
You'll see that on paper, they all are about the same.
Its the "feel" that differs.
Dom, could you get a LHD 964RS for 30K?
rich claridge said:
Domster - a 964RS would be excellent, but can I really find a good one for less than £30k? All the ads I've seen tend to be mid to high 30's?
Rich
Late 20s over winter; 30k should get you a good one (LHD) but maybe not a Clubsport spec car or one with delivery miles
See www.gtclassics.co.ukPS 964 Turbos are too lardy; different kind of drive, more a GT than a race car. Electro seats, weight in the wrong places. Certain lack of finesse compared to the RS. Foot to the floor in 3rd is great in a 3.6 Turbo, don't get me wrong, they are quick and feel quicker thanks to lag, but I stopped my 6 month search for one when I finally 'got' what the RS was all about.
The standard 993C2 is a great car, more modern than either 964s, but just a tad boring IMO.
The standard 993C2 is a great car, more modern than either 964s, but just a tad boring IMO.
A bit of a coincidence, after my last post I flicked over to gtclassics to check out prices, then came back here to find your reply Domster. You're right, a LHD RS is probably just within the budget.
Mind you, that 993RS/RSR on there looks the dogs danglies...
[url]www.gtclassics.co.uk/gtclassics2.htm[url]
Mind you, that 993RS/RSR on there looks the dogs danglies...
[url]www.gtclassics.co.uk/gtclassics2.htm[url]
Honestly, tertius, I love them but 1) they're not that quick, 2) they look like the proverbial bar of soap you refer to and 3) they're not as 'alive' as a 964RS in terms of feedback, handling etc. In short, they just don't float my boat any more. The 993RS and Turbo on the other hand, are something else. Ohhhhh yes. If you think the sun shines out of a 993C2's tailpipes then you must drive a 964RS/993RS for an appreciable amount of time; it's the good made better
domster said:
If you think the sun shines out of a 993C2's tailpipes
steady ...
domster said:
you must drive a 964RS/993RS for an appreciable amount of time; it's the good made better
I would absolutely love to, but they have a big big drawback for me - they only have 2 seats - so can't see me actually owning one, or at least not until I have space for 2 toys. So over time I will see what can be done to steadily improve the C2.
domster said:
but 1) they're not that quick
I think that is very subjective - compared with the RS maybe not, but in absolute terms, reasonably nippy I feel.
Edited to remove uncalled for bit.
>> Edited by tertius on Thursday 22 December 21:42
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