997 GT3 - Limited production: True or false?
Discussion
As most, if not all, of you will know, porkers have had issues with depreciation since becoming mass produced. However, I have been told there will be a limited production of right hand drive 997 GT3's.
I know this has been debated before, but what is the truth? Is there a limit (claimed 200 per annum over 3 years by OPC) or are they making as many as people want?
I know this has been debated before, but what is the truth? Is there a limit (claimed 200 per annum over 3 years by OPC) or are they making as many as people want?
The truth is that no one actually knows for sure. But there are a number of things to consider:
At the moment, production appears to be open ended, but each year's build numbers will probably be defined in advance, with dealers receiving a handful of cars each year.
The GT3 is quite a costly car to build and the profit margins are much smaller than the 997s, 997TT, Cayenne, Boxster/Cayman etc.
The GT3 and RS are flagship models and Porsche will want to preserve this status by keeping demand just ahead of supply.
Porsche GB have said several times that, in hindsight, extending the 996 GT3RS allocation contributed to the disappointing residuals and they would try to avoid that happening again.
Also, PCGB are trying to ensure that cars only go to bona fide customers, rather than speculators, hence the £10k deposit, positve vetting policy. This reduces the number of cars going back on sale immediately which damages residuals.
If the 997 GT3 is as good as early reports suggest, ie terrific 'on road' and 'on track', then it will appeal to a much wider audience further strengthening demand.
And, yes Porsche are a profit driven business, so one has to expect that they will want to accomodate some of this demand.
Overall it still looks good for residuals, but any number of factors could set off a global economic downturn, and then the values of all luxury cars would plumet.
At the moment, production appears to be open ended, but each year's build numbers will probably be defined in advance, with dealers receiving a handful of cars each year.
The GT3 is quite a costly car to build and the profit margins are much smaller than the 997s, 997TT, Cayenne, Boxster/Cayman etc.
The GT3 and RS are flagship models and Porsche will want to preserve this status by keeping demand just ahead of supply.
Porsche GB have said several times that, in hindsight, extending the 996 GT3RS allocation contributed to the disappointing residuals and they would try to avoid that happening again.
Also, PCGB are trying to ensure that cars only go to bona fide customers, rather than speculators, hence the £10k deposit, positve vetting policy. This reduces the number of cars going back on sale immediately which damages residuals.
If the 997 GT3 is as good as early reports suggest, ie terrific 'on road' and 'on track', then it will appeal to a much wider audience further strengthening demand.
And, yes Porsche are a profit driven business, so one has to expect that they will want to accomodate some of this demand.
Overall it still looks good for residuals, but any number of factors could set off a global economic downturn, and then the values of all luxury cars would plumet.
Geneve said:
Porsche GB have said several times that, in hindsight, extending the 996 GT3RS allocation contributed to the disappointing residuals and they would try to avoid that happening again.
We pinned them down on that at the Reading presentation, and whilst they said they shared our pain at the 996 RS residuals, they really didn't give the impression that they thought they'd got the numbers wrong.
If history repeats, extra demand will be met by imports from SA and HK. A few OPCs even got involved with that game last time round I'm told.
Anyway, no one buys a modern Porsche expecting not to lose a packet do they?
The 996 RS build run was limited too; it was just that the actual limit was three times the original stated limit.
As for the 200 cars/year, there is a physical limit to the total number of cars of all models that Porsche can assemble in one year. They may have allocated 200 slots to RSs, but it is not obvious why that number could not be expanded. There appear to be no substantial differences between RSs and standard GT3s - why could production resources not be reallocated?
Profit margins narrow on the RS?
If the factory receive roughly 18% more for an RS than for a standard GT3, do you think that an RS costs >18% more to construct? Unless the RS has a whole bunch of extra features that the factory have been keeping secret, it seems unlikely that the RS is less profitable than a st'd GT3.
There may be something in the idea that the factory should want to limit production to well below actual demand, in order to support residuals - just like they did with CGTs.
On the other hand, the RS will be going to the States, and the dealer network in the States seems to have more influence on company policy that the ROW all together does. If they want a small build run...
As for the 200 cars/year, there is a physical limit to the total number of cars of all models that Porsche can assemble in one year. They may have allocated 200 slots to RSs, but it is not obvious why that number could not be expanded. There appear to be no substantial differences between RSs and standard GT3s - why could production resources not be reallocated?
Profit margins narrow on the RS?
If the factory receive roughly 18% more for an RS than for a standard GT3, do you think that an RS costs >18% more to construct? Unless the RS has a whole bunch of extra features that the factory have been keeping secret, it seems unlikely that the RS is less profitable than a st'd GT3.
There may be something in the idea that the factory should want to limit production to well below actual demand, in order to support residuals - just like they did with CGTs.
On the other hand, the RS will be going to the States, and the dealer network in the States seems to have more influence on company policy that the ROW all together does. If they want a small build run...
997gt3 said:
My OPC "was under the impression" that 997GT3 numbers would be held at about 150 per year, about half that of the 996GT3.
Consider the source...and then ignore it.
The Mark I was in production for two years and more than 1850 were built.
Can't put my finger on MkII build numbers, but I see more Mark IIs around than Mark Is, don't you?
The concept that Porsche only made about 300 GT3s/year is fanciful.
You may not be in a position to know that, but this guy with the "impression" needs another impression.
flemke said:
997gt3 said:
I think of the world allocation as being a statistical irrelevancy.
It may be, but the cars aren't.
RHD is a dreadful thing to do to a poor, innocent car. Especially one that was designed to be driven on the left side of the road.
Apart from the fuel tank being smaller (due to budgetary considerations as far as I can tell), what disadvantages does a modern RHD 911 suffer from? Ok I grant you the stereo is designed for drivers on the left
p.s. not sure if you saw my previous post and tried to email me via pistonheads, but it doesn't seem to be working from the test I did earlier. ( danharman at hotmail dot com should work)
DanH said:
flemke said:
997gt3 said:
I think of the world allocation as being a statistical irrelevancy.
It may be, but the cars aren't.
RHD is a dreadful thing to do to a poor, innocent car. Especially one that was designed to be driven on the left side of the road.
Apart from the fuel tank being smaller (due to budgetary considerations as far as I can tell), what disadvantages does a modern RHD 911 suffer from? Ok I grant you the stereo is designed for drivers on the left
p.s. not sure if you saw my previous post and tried to email me via pistonheads, but it doesn't seem to be working from the test I did earlier. ( danharman at hotmail dot com should work)
The pedal layout is less good; in RHD your body is skewed.
In a car without a big transmission tunnel, the squeeze comes by pushing the driver's feet towards the centre of the car.
The throttle pedal has to move, so there needs to be space between it (and between the edge of your right foot) and the carpet on the back side of the right wheel arch.
The dead pedal functions with the edge of your left foot jammed against the back side of the left wheel arch.
Therefore there will always be a tendency for your feet to be pushed leftwards. This helps to straighten your position in LHD, and makes it worse in RHD.
The offset does seem to be less in the 97 GT3 than in the 96.
Then in a RHD Porsche we have the indicator stalk being on same side as the gearstick, so that it isn't really posible to indicate when your left hand is extended towards the console, as it frequently is.
The Japanese have this one covered with the indicator on the right, but of course their cars are designed from the start for RHD.
flemke said:
DanH said:
flemke said:
997gt3 said:
I think of the world allocation as being a statistical irrelevancy.
It may be, but the cars aren't.
RHD is a dreadful thing to do to a poor, innocent car. Especially one that was designed to be driven on the left side of the road.
Apart from the fuel tank being smaller (due to budgetary considerations as far as I can tell), what disadvantages does a modern RHD 911 suffer from? Ok I grant you the stereo is designed for drivers on the left
p.s. not sure if you saw my previous post and tried to email me via pistonheads, but it doesn't seem to be working from the test I did earlier. ( danharman at hotmail dot com should work)
The pedal layout is less good; in RHD your body is skewed.
In a car without a big transmission tunnel, the squeeze comes by pushing the driver's feet towards the centre of the car.
The throttle pedal has to move, so there needs to be space between it (and between the edge of your right foot) and the carpet on the back side of the right wheel arch.
The dead pedal functions with the edge of your left foot jammed against the back side of the left wheel arch.
Therefore there will always be a tendency for your feet to be pushed leftwards. This helps to straighten your position in LHD, and makes it worse in RHD.
The offset does seem to be less in the 97 GT3 than in the 96.
Then in a RHD Porsche we have the indicator stalk being on same side as the gearstick, so that it isn't really posible to indicate when your left hand is extended towards the console, as it frequently is.
The Japanese have this one covered with the indicator on the right, but of course their cars are designed from the start for RHD.
Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 2nd November 07:33
No doubt that the 997 GT3 and RS's are amazing cars.
Porsche know that they have a hardcore fan base who love their stripped out road racers. But by adding traction control, adjustable dampers etc to make the cars more managable on the road they are hoping to make them more accessible to a wider audience. I would therefore assume they are planning to shift more units than previous models and are not just going to sell the required homolagation numbers.
Of course Porsche UK and OPC's are going to talk up limited supply but any dealer in Europe will happily sell you a full UK spec car RHD car with probably, a far shorter lead time.
Porsche know that they have a hardcore fan base who love their stripped out road racers. But by adding traction control, adjustable dampers etc to make the cars more managable on the road they are hoping to make them more accessible to a wider audience. I would therefore assume they are planning to shift more units than previous models and are not just going to sell the required homolagation numbers.
Of course Porsche UK and OPC's are going to talk up limited supply but any dealer in Europe will happily sell you a full UK spec car RHD car with probably, a far shorter lead time.
IMO with Porsche clearly producing as many cars as they can because profit is all they are interested in i think they will fill every GT3 order and some more(bmw did the same with the CSL).Even if they say the GT3/rs will be produced in limited numbers they will just bring out another variant..GT3rsr,gt3 club sport rsr etc.I thought the Cayman 's' was the only Cayman,then came the Cayman.987 Boxster 's' now with a bigger engine etc.Even talk of a diesel Cayenne
.Porsche are becoming a mainstream car manafacturer and buying their cars for exclusivity because of the 'old 'days is potentially going to be very expensive...996 gt3 rs(limited edition) hardly portraying 'rare-car' bullet-proof residuals.
.Porsche are becoming a mainstream car manafacturer and buying their cars for exclusivity because of the 'old 'days is potentially going to be very expensive...996 gt3 rs(limited edition) hardly portraying 'rare-car' bullet-proof residuals.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff