Nos..... aka Nitrous oxide....
Discussion
I suppose people don't go for NoS for three reasons:
1) The Fast and the Furious
2) 2 Fast 2 Furious
3) See points 1 and 2
In other words, it has a pretty sad max muppet vin diesel neon lamp brigade image. It would knock thousands off a Porsche.
NoS has its place in dragsters, where replenishable rocket fuels and engine combustion additives are completely sensible.
Besides, a decently plumbed in and mapped NoS kit isn't that cheap (couple of grand normally), and your engine/transmission/rest of the car (brakes!) does have to be able to cope with the increased demands made on it.
I am not against NoS at all (if I had a dragster it would be a must) but why anyone would ever want to put one in a nice road car is beyond me.
Just my opinion
1) The Fast and the Furious
2) 2 Fast 2 Furious
3) See points 1 and 2
In other words, it has a pretty sad max muppet vin diesel neon lamp brigade image. It would knock thousands off a Porsche.
NoS has its place in dragsters, where replenishable rocket fuels and engine combustion additives are completely sensible.
Besides, a decently plumbed in and mapped NoS kit isn't that cheap (couple of grand normally), and your engine/transmission/rest of the car (brakes!) does have to be able to cope with the increased demands made on it.
I am not against NoS at all (if I had a dragster it would be a must) but why anyone would ever want to put one in a nice road car is beyond me.
Just my opinion
What I'm thinking of doing is keeping to small jets, apparently you can buy these as small
enough to provide a 25bhp increase, my intention was to have three of these set up to
provide a progressive power increase giving a maximum output of 75bhp as I have heard
of superchargers giving 80bhp extra with no problems. Am I right in thinking that the output
is the best way to measure the stress being put on the engine?
enough to provide a 25bhp increase, my intention was to have three of these set up to
provide a progressive power increase giving a maximum output of 75bhp as I have heard
of superchargers giving 80bhp extra with no problems. Am I right in thinking that the output
is the best way to measure the stress being put on the engine?
Short answer is no.... stress on engines is something ninemeister has probably written a thesis on and still only covered 1% of the topic. Basically, heat is a major consideration as some combustion charges burn hotter than others. Heat kills all sorts of things and raises cylinder head pressure, which also buggers things up a bit.
Also, you have to think about acceleration of moving bits and pieces and the speed they rotate at. Some engines will be fine with a mild charge of NoS - yes even 75bhp MAY be ok, but engine life could still be affected. It may hang together for six months and then your driveshafts mysteriously give up...
Whatever your Porsche, there is a more sensible route to more power. It may not be cheaper, but it will last longer and may even add value. NoS is a cheap way of extracting more performance from an engine, maybe something I'd put on an old XJS I'd strip out for trackday use for a laugh. If the NoS is done properly, like to some monster skylines, it is an expensive route anyhow and the normal tuning routes have normally been exhausted.
If you have a 911, transplanting an engine can be a cheap route to better power - say a 930 Turbo lump (tunable to 450bhp relatively easily), or put a tuned 944 turbo engine in a 924/944/968. These have the advantage of coming with correctly geared transmissions which can cope with the power etc.
Also, you have to think about acceleration of moving bits and pieces and the speed they rotate at. Some engines will be fine with a mild charge of NoS - yes even 75bhp MAY be ok, but engine life could still be affected. It may hang together for six months and then your driveshafts mysteriously give up...
Whatever your Porsche, there is a more sensible route to more power. It may not be cheaper, but it will last longer and may even add value. NoS is a cheap way of extracting more performance from an engine, maybe something I'd put on an old XJS I'd strip out for trackday use for a laugh. If the NoS is done properly, like to some monster skylines, it is an expensive route anyhow and the normal tuning routes have normally been exhausted.
If you have a 911, transplanting an engine can be a cheap route to better power - say a 930 Turbo lump (tunable to 450bhp relatively easily), or put a tuned 944 turbo engine in a 924/944/968. These have the advantage of coming with correctly geared transmissions which can cope with the power etc.
I suppose people don't go for NoS for three reasons:
1) The Fast and the Furious
2) 2 Fast 2 Furious
3) See points 1 and 2
In other words, it has a pretty sad max muppet vin diesel neon lamp brigade image. It would knock thousands off a Porsche.
NoS has its place in dragsters, where replenishable rocket fuels and engine combustion additives are completely sensible.
Besides, a decently plumbed in and mapped NoS kit isn't that cheap (couple of grand normally), and your engine/transmission/rest of the car (brakes!) does have to be able to cope with the increased demands made on it.
I am not against NoS at all (if I had a dragster it would be a must) but why anyone would ever want to put one in a nice road car is beyond me.
Just my opinion
my opinion is that perhaps you need a TVR!!
It works great in one!!! (ducks and runs for cover!!)
1) The Fast and the Furious
2) 2 Fast 2 Furious
3) See points 1 and 2
In other words, it has a pretty sad max muppet vin diesel neon lamp brigade image. It would knock thousands off a Porsche.
NoS has its place in dragsters, where replenishable rocket fuels and engine combustion additives are completely sensible.
Besides, a decently plumbed in and mapped NoS kit isn't that cheap (couple of grand normally), and your engine/transmission/rest of the car (brakes!) does have to be able to cope with the increased demands made on it.
I am not against NoS at all (if I had a dragster it would be a must) but why anyone would ever want to put one in a nice road car is beyond me.
Just my opinion
my opinion is that perhaps you need a TVR!!
It works great in one!!! (ducks and runs for cover!!)
Several decades ago I bought a 911 E that had a NoS kit fitted, with a claimed 100 bhp increase - 2 stage kit. I stripped it out and sold it to a guy for his 944. Shortly afterwards a mate of Terry Hoyle managed to seize the engine in the car on a test drive (OK so it was a bit smokey and OK so I was trying to get shot of it before it blew up) and when we stripped it for the rebuild we examined it very carefully. There was noticeable pitting on all components, beyond natural wear, especially on the pistons, valves and head. Nitrous is highly corrosive and had clearly caused this pitting (I still ahve one of the most badly damaged pistons and Iguana can vouch for the state of that, having seen it over Christmas).
IMHO since a 911 relies heavily on the engine oil to cool it, the increase in temperatures that Nitrous gives is going to subject the engine to sudden temperature changes and I wouldn't want to run it in my car.
Better to go for one of the proven horsepower upgrades than a Max Power type fix IMHO
IMHO since a 911 relies heavily on the engine oil to cool it, the increase in temperatures that Nitrous gives is going to subject the engine to sudden temperature changes and I wouldn't want to run it in my car.
Better to go for one of the proven horsepower upgrades than a Max Power type fix IMHO
Trouble is that unless you go for very clever controllers, most NOS kits just use simple on/off type valves that control the gas and extra fuel supplies (remember the NOS itself is just a means of cramming more oxygen in the cylinder, not a fuel in itself).
This is what puts lots of stress on the bottom end of your engine, the sudden "hit" when the blue touch paper is lit. A supercharger is much more progressive and controllable by comparison, being a crank driven compressor forcing extra air/fuel mixture into the cylinder in rough proportion to engine speed.
Another big risk with NOS is that you don't cram enough extra petrol in at the same time as the NOS, so the whole thing leans out really badly and melts your pistons like they're made of chocolate!
Overall though, it would seem to me Porsche's are about having fun on the twisty stuff, and the on/off nature of NOS is about going faster in a straight line, so to me the two don't seem that compatible.
I'd put it on my Rover V8 engined kit car for a bit of fun though, and in fact might be doing so soon!
This is what puts lots of stress on the bottom end of your engine, the sudden "hit" when the blue touch paper is lit. A supercharger is much more progressive and controllable by comparison, being a crank driven compressor forcing extra air/fuel mixture into the cylinder in rough proportion to engine speed.
Another big risk with NOS is that you don't cram enough extra petrol in at the same time as the NOS, so the whole thing leans out really badly and melts your pistons like they're made of chocolate!
Overall though, it would seem to me Porsche's are about having fun on the twisty stuff, and the on/off nature of NOS is about going faster in a straight line, so to me the two don't seem that compatible.
I'd put it on my Rover V8 engined kit car for a bit of fun though, and in fact might be doing so soon!
rubystone said:
There was noticeable pitting on all components, beyond natural wear, especially on the pistons, valves and head. Nitrous is highly corrosive and had clearly caused this pitting
My A-level chemistry is a while ago now, but IIRC I don't think nitrous is corrosive, you can inhale it in it's medical grade form after all, and in the combustion chamber it just breaks down into Nitrogen and Oxygen. Are you sure the pitting wasn't caused by detonation due to the engine running too lean with the nitrous switched on?
Hi Guys,
I have a nitrous kit on a small block chevy Cobra.
It involved a great deal of planning through the build and since as the car was upgraded to cope with the extra horse power. ie transmission, fuel lines, pumps, electronics etc. In the end it quadrupled my original N20 budget but I wanted to do it properly.
I did it to give me the option of an 'economical' 350 bhp vehicle for fun driving without worrying about consumption too much. Averages 17 mpg. The idea was/is to have 500+ bhp when I want it without having to drag a petrol tanker behind me every time I went to the shops if I went for a more radical tuned stroked motor.
If done and set up correctly with specialist advice (mine was actual drag racers rather than the shop 'specialists' who just want a sale) the N20 is very safe. I have an ECU progressive controller which builds the release of gas and cuts it at a rev limit. It allows ultimate safety.
Anyway, N20 on a porker sounds like a hanging offence to me! They are for fun not just top acceleration. This sort of non progressive upgrade would unbalance the car and spoil it. Spend your money on a lump upgrade or just px the car and keep trading up.
N20 would be more fun on a bespoke car like mine, or in a 'street sleeper' which I'm sure would be top laughs!
400bhp Hyundai Pony anyone? It can be done!
I have a nitrous kit on a small block chevy Cobra.
It involved a great deal of planning through the build and since as the car was upgraded to cope with the extra horse power. ie transmission, fuel lines, pumps, electronics etc. In the end it quadrupled my original N20 budget but I wanted to do it properly.
I did it to give me the option of an 'economical' 350 bhp vehicle for fun driving without worrying about consumption too much. Averages 17 mpg. The idea was/is to have 500+ bhp when I want it without having to drag a petrol tanker behind me every time I went to the shops if I went for a more radical tuned stroked motor.
If done and set up correctly with specialist advice (mine was actual drag racers rather than the shop 'specialists' who just want a sale) the N20 is very safe. I have an ECU progressive controller which builds the release of gas and cuts it at a rev limit. It allows ultimate safety.
Anyway, N20 on a porker sounds like a hanging offence to me! They are for fun not just top acceleration. This sort of non progressive upgrade would unbalance the car and spoil it. Spend your money on a lump upgrade or just px the car and keep trading up.
N20 would be more fun on a bespoke car like mine, or in a 'street sleeper' which I'm sure would be top laughs!
400bhp Hyundai Pony anyone? It can be done!
domster said:
As for Q cars, we had an amazing 170mph Seat Ibiza at Bruntingthorpe last time
Wha-hey!!!!
For fun you could build an N20 kit up for £500, bolt it onto a £100 snotter without worrying about the expensive safety stuff and have imense fun. When the inevitable happens just unbolt it and buy another scrapper!
Traffic light fun for peanuts. What ever happens to the engine, chances are the N20 kit would be undamaged.
If you do this I suggest getting a technically basic mechanicl injection or carbs powered vehicle making bolt on easy.
If any one does it please let me know.
Skid
Cheap fun!
skid said:
domster said:
As for Q cars, we had an amazing 170mph Seat Ibiza at Bruntingthorpe last time
Wha-hey!!!!
For fun you could build an N20 kit up for £500, bolt it onto a £100 snotter without worrying about the expensive safety stuff and have imense fun. When the inevitable happens just unbolt it and buy another scrapper!
Traffic light fun for peanuts. What ever happens to the engine, chances are the N20 kit would be undamaged.
If you do this I suggest getting a technically basic mechanicl injection or carbs powered vehicle making bolt on easy.
If any one does it please let me know.
Skid
Cheap fun!
Mark I know whare there is a good mk 2 golf that could be used
>> Edited by lightweight on Tuesday 6th January 17:51
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