RE: Beefed up Boxster
Discussion
I, for one, think its a great idea. I really think that the demand for 911s is a specific need, one that causes people to intentionally pay 80 grand for a car that is slower than vipers and vette z06's. 911s sell b/c they are 911s in addition to porsche's continuous improvement of the vehicle. The boxster fills a different niche. I think, therefore, that only the poseurs who just wanted a carrera coupe b/c they wanted a porsche but didn't want to mess up their hair will be driven to buy a boxster coupe, especially if it is uprated instead, at a lower cost. What's more, there are poseurs that thought carrera coupes were too expensive that will be brought into porsche showrooms by the temptation of a lower price of entry. Anything that helps porsche's bottom line without ruining the image is fine with me. onward boxster coupe!
SLKs? Z3s. <subjective comment> But they're HORRIBLE! </subjective comment>(Puts on asbestos clothing whilst waiting for the replies!) At least the Boxster Coupe is nice to look at. BUT THE ROOF DOESN'T COME OFF! What's the point in that? Still 300+ bhp is good. Stick the engine in the regular car I say....
quote:Yeah. But in the real world a 1.6 Mondeo is probably quicker point to point than either of them due to its less attention grabbing nature, speed limits, and other traffic. A sports car is only very partially about the 'real world' surely? The bit I like about a Tiv isn't 0..60. Its the 55 to 90 overtaking band. That's power you can USE on a day to day basis that...rather than needing to wait for a track day. A Boxster has other things in its favour mind, as well as excellent performance (252bhp ain't bad!)...if not quite at TVR levels.
In the real world I a 300bhp Porsche will be as quick as any TVR as it stops better and handles better, stop reading 0-60 times as it is not the full picture
I'd question that it stops better than a TVR. The Tuscan and Cerbera in ALL their flavours would stop at LEAST as well as a Boxster and I'd say in several instances (i.e, All cerbera, Tuscan R, Tuscan S/RR) much better than the Porker. A Cerbera is, even in the real world, better than the boxster in terms of handling although I'd agree there may not be much in it without some minor tweaking. But there's another great thing about the TVRs, you can tweak, personalise, uprate without needing to remortgage or be told it's not possible. The level of upgrade and personalisation on Boxsters from the factory is nowhere near that of any TVR IMHO.
quote:None taken, glad you agree they are the best looking TVR ever. Regards Porsches, are we always having a pop at them? I don't think so. In any case it's only the 911 Turbos that bear any comparison to TVR in terms of performance, I don't see many pork boxsters keeping up with me
no offence intended to Griff owners (best looking TVR ever)
In the wet a Porkster would probably be quicker stopping/cornering etc. In the dry it's all down to the ability of the driver, we're not all Tiff Needell. I would hazard a guess that more TVR owners have been on track days/know the limits of their cars and give them a good thorough thrashing more often than your average Porkster owner.
An example - I've never 'lost it' in my TVR in over 3 years of ownership. My girlfriend has done so in her TT though (no damage, just a scarey slide). Funny thing is, I could have got the TVR through the same corner at the same speed without drama. The TT sticks to the road better than the TVR, but its also down to the user.
Personally I don't drive like a nutter in the wet, only in the dry, out of town etc. ... the sun's shining out there, time to go play.
T/.
P.S. I'll probably prang my car today after writing this!
Yes, but time to stop talking bollocks now. The reasons why people buy the cars are probbaly different. I buy TVRs because in a TVR you couldn't possibly be in another car. There is nothing like the look of one on the inside. Porches, well it's just another lump of preformed plastic, you could be in a Honda. Performance on my Chimp and Cerbie before that.... bonkers. Love it, but Tivs don't have a monopoly on that. In the real world read stomp my foot on the gas and it goes they are hard to beat. A Tiv says I have individuality and I like performance and appreciate design (and are prepared to suffer for it). A new Porche says only that you have money, an old Porche only that you don't but covet it. As Rowan Atkinson said, the man who buys a Porche is the man that leaves the hotel with his flies undone.
They are great cars, well made, perform like stars, last forever but at the end of the day, you look at them, you just know there's going to be a bald fat guy inside trying to impress teenagers or a dried out peroxide blonde with a dog and a skirt that doesn't become a woman in her 50s.
In short, great cars but the wrong statement.
quote:I'm a Tiv owner (Chimaera). Love it. Will always own one whilst I've the good fortune to be able to afford it! I've owned a Porsche too - and could own one again. They're different cars for different things. I didn't buy either one to make a "statement". I bought them to DRIVE. Surely that's what *most* owners do?
In short, great cars but the wrong statement.
Hey, I like Porsches too. The 996 is nice, as are the early 911s (VW beetle sounding ones, not the 80s failed rock singer 964/993 jobs).
TVR build quality - yep, it needs improving. At least it is improving. I thought we'd come bottom of JD Power, but IMHO beating the MGF was an achievement. (BTW, what happened to Subaru this year then eh?)
I think this tread has got a little carried away because the sterotypical Porsche driver is someone who graduated from a BMW/Saab. Anyone on this list is probably more of an enthusiast.
Now what is the sterotypical TVR driver - I'd have thought the general public think of us as brave fools with too much money (Working on the knowledge they may have of TVRs).
Trefor/. - an Audi owner :-)
I came from a BMW to a Chimaera, and when I need practicality I may go back to one, I tried a boxter, an early one, and it was pants compared to the TVR, the salesman even admited it wouldn't be as good, but told me to come back when I was tried of the TVR breaking down. Not tried yet it's character building.
PS
In the TVR you know which way to face to go forward, Porker doesn't know if it's coming or going?
Just going back to POR1's comments on handling at his track days. I'm not a good enough driver to comment personally on which car is the better but I do take comfort in seeing that EVO seems to think that a Tuscan is better than a 911;
- in a straight line 0-100-0
- on a slalom course
- overtaking TED
- on a circuit
Only thing it looses out on is 100-0 braking times but as it has no electrics to help 0.3s behind is pretty good going!
Now this is driving to extreme by people that know what they are doing but it does suggest that any Tuscans going slow round corners at your track days is down to the driver not the car!
One of the slowest pedestrain-speed drivers we ever had was in a 996.
One of the most exciting drives I've ever had was in a 993 Turbo 4
One of the most disappointing cars in terms of performance I have driven was a boxster
One of the most common sportscars on the road is a boxster
What does this all tell you? Nowt. I'd love to own a 993 turbo 4 as it's as raw as a TVR, It'd be bloody difficult to keep up even in a TVR cerbera 4.5 (and yes I've owned one and know how fast they are). Boxsters are hairdresser cars in comparison to most TVRs but then that's only in terms of performance (and yes that's useable too). Get a half decent driver in a boxstrer and he'll rung rings around any chimp/griff. Hell, on one track day we ran I was overtaking Cerberas in my 306 GTI-6 ferchrissakes yet I know that get Martin Short in a Honda Prelude and he'll almost certainly lap faster than me in a Cerbie. The speed of the car is really all down to the driver, inexperienced guys can gain an advantage down the straights in a fast car but come to corners and they lose out big time. It's a taste/style issue apart from that. The "porsche drivers are tossers" statements seem to have moved over to BMW drivers these days. Either way they are all good for the sportscar industry and well done to anyone that can afford one - you're doing well (or selling drugs!!)
On the final point - getting back to the reply on my comments about customising, the TVRs are more customisable than the boxsters from the factory period. I was in a Porsche garage with a friend when we looked at 996s for him. They told us how "customisable" they were and although better than the average manufacturer were not as "individual" as the TVR.
Dropping a v8 in a bathtub is easy. Real engineering costs money. A porsche 911 turbo driver appreciates this, and at the end of the day can buy a trevor if required, but how much fun is the tvr in the middle of summer when it's having it's engine rebuilt for the second time?
Yet another tvr performance bashing option is the Lotus Exige Turbo Technics supercharged 260bhp
conversion. This is comes with full warranty, reliability, is a little different and 0-60 in 3.5s.
Yet another tvr performance bashing option is the Lotus Exige Turbo Technics supercharged 260bhp
conversion. This is comes with full warranty, reliability, is a little different and 0-60 in 3.5s.
Out of interest just what is the axe you have to grind with TVR?
I'ts just that on every discussion you seem to pop up and use it as an oppourtunity to rant on having a go at TVR and I wondered why?
Some history perhaps or just miffed ant being out accelerated by a "V8 bathtub" in you souped up VW Beetle?
I'ts just that on every discussion you seem to pop up and use it as an oppourtunity to rant on having a go at TVR and I wondered why?
Some history perhaps or just miffed ant being out accelerated by a "V8 bathtub" in you souped up VW Beetle?
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