just bought a 330ci - DESIGN FAULTS...
Discussion
Hi,
I recently bought a 2002 330ci sport. It’s been great, but, there are 2 really annoying things that I am amazed to find on this level of BMW.
1. My seat doesn’t go low enough, I am quite tall, about 6’2, and my hair skims the roof! I had a 320ci cab before this, non sport, and that wasn’t as bad because the seat wasn’t as thick, so ended up being lower.
2. The steering wheel is off centre! The wheel is about 1 inch to the left… this is ultra annoying, you really notice it in normal driving and with the sport style bucket seats your firmly in the middle of the seat, with an off centre steering wheel.
I have had a 2001 318ci, and a 2001 320ci, didn’t notice the steering being off centre on these, however they weren’t sport models, so the seats weren’t the bucket style, and I may have naturally positioned my self over a little and never noticed.
The 330 has been my dream car (dream affordable car anyway) for years, finally I have one, and right now I’m thinking about selling it 3 weeks later because of these 2 issues that I am amazed to find on a BMW, is it that hard to line up a steering wheel?!?!
Really quite disappointed and pissed off at BMW to be honest.
Am I missing a really easy to find leaver that will fix this and line things up?
Many thanks,
Sam
UPDATE: This was posted back in 2005... I kept the car for a some time, then bought a automatic cabriolet version (330ci sport). Still my favourite car for the money.
I recently bought a 2002 330ci sport. It’s been great, but, there are 2 really annoying things that I am amazed to find on this level of BMW.
1. My seat doesn’t go low enough, I am quite tall, about 6’2, and my hair skims the roof! I had a 320ci cab before this, non sport, and that wasn’t as bad because the seat wasn’t as thick, so ended up being lower.
2. The steering wheel is off centre! The wheel is about 1 inch to the left… this is ultra annoying, you really notice it in normal driving and with the sport style bucket seats your firmly in the middle of the seat, with an off centre steering wheel.
I have had a 2001 318ci, and a 2001 320ci, didn’t notice the steering being off centre on these, however they weren’t sport models, so the seats weren’t the bucket style, and I may have naturally positioned my self over a little and never noticed.
The 330 has been my dream car (dream affordable car anyway) for years, finally I have one, and right now I’m thinking about selling it 3 weeks later because of these 2 issues that I am amazed to find on a BMW, is it that hard to line up a steering wheel?!?!
Really quite disappointed and pissed off at BMW to be honest.
Am I missing a really easy to find leaver that will fix this and line things up?
Many thanks,
Sam
UPDATE: This was posted back in 2005... I kept the car for a some time, then bought a automatic cabriolet version (330ci sport). Still my favourite car for the money.
Edited by S a m on Saturday 4th August 12:49
Sam, sorry to hear of your woe's, but I'd have thought that hustling your 330 down some nice lanes would act as a suitable distraction for you to forget about the steering/seat.
I drove a 330Ci with step/auto a few years back and didn't notice any major ergonomic issues, but I've had a few beemers and might just not notice these things.
Anyway, go for a really good hoon and then tell us what you think!
BTW, Did you test drive the car before buying?
I drove a 330Ci with step/auto a few years back and didn't notice any major ergonomic issues, but I've had a few beemers and might just not notice these things.
Anyway, go for a really good hoon and then tell us what you think!
BTW, Did you test drive the car before buying?
This all sounds familiar! If you look elsewhere on this forum you will see my woes with regard to the 330! I bought a 2000 model 330ci in May and I'm so annoyed with it I've asked for my money back. You're right, the electric seats don't go anywhere near low enough, and I'm only little (5'10"
. It surprised me as the E30 and E36 both went low enough for most people - a definate step backwards.
The steering wheel is a bit off centre, yes, but it doesn't annoy me too much.
Does your car have a delay on the throttle? I'm selling mine because of it - I find the car undriveable. If your car doesn't, then I may be interested in buying it if you're selling it...
. It surprised me as the E30 and E36 both went low enough for most people - a definate step backwards. The steering wheel is a bit off centre, yes, but it doesn't annoy me too much.
Does your car have a delay on the throttle? I'm selling mine because of it - I find the car undriveable. If your car doesn't, then I may be interested in buying it if you're selling it...
outnumbered said:
Offset wheel and pedals on RHD have been a 3 series trait since at least the E36, probably earlier.
I've read a lot of complaints about the offset pedals. Everytime Auto Express rates a BMW they complain about the pedals - I suppose there isn't that much else to complain about
I've never noticed this myself, or I've never found it to be a problem. Does anyone else have a complaint about offset pedals?
Cheers guys, well I guess there isn’t a leaver I’ve missed that adjusts the seats left/right… dam.
The seats are the sports electric memory with lumbar support, which is very comfortable, but they are thicker than the normal ones making the height issue even worse.
As I said I’ve had a few E46’s and not noticed the steering being off centre before, but I think that’s down to these seats. I haven’t noticed the pedals being off, they seam fine, or maybe I haven’t noticed that yet.
I did test drive it, it’s a mint example of a 330, great condition, good mileage etc, and I only noticed the steering wheel issue after about 1000miles of driving it when I realised my body was hunched over to one side pressing against the left of the seat. Now I’ve realised, its started to really bug me and prove uncomfortable.
With this sort of car (well, the money it costs new and second hand) I would have thought little flaws like this wouldn’t exist… not sure what to do at this stage, I love everything else about the car and yes it sure makes up for it in speed/handling. It was also quite a job to find, its fully loaded with the bmw satnav, harmon/kardon etc there’s not all that many about with that at this age.
I also can’t think of any car I would rather have, or would have as a horizontal switch – not for the same money (thinks of new Aston Martin
). Feeling a bit frustrated, keep it and lump it I guess.
The seats are the sports electric memory with lumbar support, which is very comfortable, but they are thicker than the normal ones making the height issue even worse.
As I said I’ve had a few E46’s and not noticed the steering being off centre before, but I think that’s down to these seats. I haven’t noticed the pedals being off, they seam fine, or maybe I haven’t noticed that yet.
I did test drive it, it’s a mint example of a 330, great condition, good mileage etc, and I only noticed the steering wheel issue after about 1000miles of driving it when I realised my body was hunched over to one side pressing against the left of the seat. Now I’ve realised, its started to really bug me and prove uncomfortable.
With this sort of car (well, the money it costs new and second hand) I would have thought little flaws like this wouldn’t exist… not sure what to do at this stage, I love everything else about the car and yes it sure makes up for it in speed/handling. It was also quite a job to find, its fully loaded with the bmw satnav, harmon/kardon etc there’s not all that many about with that at this age.
I also can’t think of any car I would rather have, or would have as a horizontal switch – not for the same money (thinks of new Aston Martin
). Feeling a bit frustrated, keep it and lump it I guess.Yes actually, on long journeys I find it a very unnatural position to sit in and used to get pains in my legs and hip because of it. Now of course, you've got cruise control in BMWs so you can turn that on and waggle your leg around for a bit every half hour or so - seems to solve the problem!
To be honest, it must be a real pain for car manufacturers to design a car for both left and right hand drive!
Whilst slightly offset pedals and steering don't bother me massively, I can imagine how they do for some people. My personal gripes are fly-by-wire throttle (any car that has a delay I see as just transport - there's no satisfaction in it at all and I might as well be in a Daewoo Matiz), and over assisted steering and brakes. Even the clutch in my 330 feels a bit odd compared with a clutch in a traditional car such as an MGB or Mini.
One thing that is for certain - the controls and seating position are crucial in a car. You can make the best car in the world, but if it has rubbish controls I won't buy it (Nissan 350Z for instance).
To be honest, it must be a real pain for car manufacturers to design a car for both left and right hand drive!
Whilst slightly offset pedals and steering don't bother me massively, I can imagine how they do for some people. My personal gripes are fly-by-wire throttle (any car that has a delay I see as just transport - there's no satisfaction in it at all and I might as well be in a Daewoo Matiz), and over assisted steering and brakes. Even the clutch in my 330 feels a bit odd compared with a clutch in a traditional car such as an MGB or Mini.
One thing that is for certain - the controls and seating position are crucial in a car. You can make the best car in the world, but if it has rubbish controls I won't buy it (Nissan 350Z for instance).
We had an 02 330d sport and it had several very annoying design faults which considering how long the car has been in development is pi55 poor.
Ones i can remember
1. Offset peddles / driving position - just not comfortable
2. Very poor ride on b roads (18"mv's and sports suspension far too severe for everyday driving - our elise was more comfortable!) I want a firm ride with good body control but this was just unacceptable for uk roads
3. Rear view mirror and alarm sensor soo huge it creates a blind spot
4. Wing mirrors such a stupid shape that you can't see anything out of them
5. Shiny plastic where the wing mirror joins the car which reflects white lines etc catching your eye
6. Rear seats which didn't fold and a stupidly small boot (a cost option for split fold - we didn't spec the car)
Apart from that a very good car, especially given that it retained nearly 50% of its value at 3 1/2 years and 85K - but too many of the above should have not made it to production IMHO
BMW is not alone though... new A4 has shiny controls for the air vents which reflect in the side windows / wing mirrors.... arghhhh
Ones i can remember
1. Offset peddles / driving position - just not comfortable
2. Very poor ride on b roads (18"mv's and sports suspension far too severe for everyday driving - our elise was more comfortable!) I want a firm ride with good body control but this was just unacceptable for uk roads
3. Rear view mirror and alarm sensor soo huge it creates a blind spot
4. Wing mirrors such a stupid shape that you can't see anything out of them
5. Shiny plastic where the wing mirror joins the car which reflects white lines etc catching your eye
6. Rear seats which didn't fold and a stupidly small boot (a cost option for split fold - we didn't spec the car)
Apart from that a very good car, especially given that it retained nearly 50% of its value at 3 1/2 years and 85K - but too many of the above should have not made it to production IMHO
BMW is not alone though... new A4 has shiny controls for the air vents which reflect in the side windows / wing mirrors.... arghhhh
Ruxpin said:
We had an 02 330d sport and it had several very annoying design faults which considering how long the car has been in development is pi55 poor.
Ones i can remember
1. Offset peddles / driving position - just not comfortable
agree.
Ruxpin said:
2. Very poor ride on b roads (18"mv's and sports suspension far too severe for everyday driving - our elise was more comfortable!) I want a firm ride with good body control but this was just unacceptable for uk roads
agree. I have 18" MVs and the ride isn't the best. If BMW can't gaurantee good ride and handling with a wheel, they shouldn't offer it in my honest opinion.
Ruxpin said:
3. Rear view mirror and alarm sensor soo huge it creates a blind spot
Yes, that alarm sensor is a joke!! I couldn't believe it when my Dad picked up his new 3 series and I saw it. Probably the ugliest thing ever to adorn a rear view mirror. Also - I find that the auto dip just doesn't protect my eys from people on main beam behind me. My eyes were hurting for some while after a Fiesta followed me on main beam the othe day. I pulled in to let him past after a few minutes, but I could still feel the pain in my eyes much later on!
Oh, and the rear view mirror seems so heavy that it droops.. mine needs adjusting every other day!
Ruxpin said:
4. Wing mirrors such a stupid shape that you can't see anything out of them
5. Shiny plastic where the wing mirror joins the car which reflects white lines etc catching your eye
6. Rear seats which didn't fold and a stupidly small boot (a cost option for split fold - we didn't spec the car)
I've got the folding seats and they're brilliant. Should be standard though on a £30k car!
I have a 2000 330Ci SE with electric seats and I am 6 ft 2. I don't have any problem with the head room as I am able to elevate the seat up and down. Granted that the 'up and down' is done in a diagonal direction though when moving the seat forward and back.
Interesting comment about the offset pedals - I hadn't noticed but have on occasions got a pain in my legs after a long journey. Now I know why!
Rgds, Brin
Interesting comment about the offset pedals - I hadn't noticed but have on occasions got a pain in my legs after a long journey. Now I know why!
Rgds, Brin
RobM77 said:
3. Rear view mirror and alarm sensor soo huge it creates a blind spot
Yes, that alarm sensor is a joke!! I couldn't believe it when my Dad picked up his new 3 series and I saw it. Probably the ugliest thing ever to adorn a rear view mirror. Also - I find that the auto dip just doesn't protect my eys from people on main beam behind me. My eyes were hurting for some while after a Fiesta followed me on main beam the othe day. I pulled in to let him past after a few minutes, but I could still feel the pain in my eyes much later on!
Oh, and the rear view mirror seems so heavy that it droops.. mine needs adjusting every other day!
I had someone point out the huge ugly alarm sensor the other day. I made the excuse it's larger so more likely to blind burglars
The rear view mirror drives me mad with it drooping. Makes me feel like I have a growth spurt every couple of days!
My rear window is tinted so that helps with the auto tint so I'm not sure whether it's bad or good at it's job. Pitty I can't see a damn thing out the back at night.
john_p said:
Did any of you actually test drive these cars before buying them?
err, yes. When I was looking for mine they were so popular they were selling before I could even get down to the dealer to look at them. The one I ended up buying I got in to look at it the morning after the evening it was traded in. I knew I had to make a decision then and there if I wanted it. The salesman offered me a *five minute* drive round the block, no more, as he "didn't have time".
I was silly and I've learnt my lesson. Next time, I'm not buying a car without doing proper research first, and I'm also demanding at least a half hour test drive. I've always done this with cars in the past, and didn't this time - I've paid my price!
Mine's for sale soon as well
It is an immaculate 26,000 mile 330 coupe with a great spec if anyone wants it!
I took two. On the same day It seems to me that most cars have the steering wheel offset at least some. On my MkII Scirocco and on my E30 M3 the steering wheel is somewhat inboard of the centerline of the driver's seat.
Of course on a Yank tank or pickup with a bench seat, you can plop your butt directly in line with or to either side of the wheel as you like it.
Of course on a Yank tank or pickup with a bench seat, you can plop your butt directly in line with or to either side of the wheel as you like it.
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