Used M3 vs New ST
Discussion
I'm coming up (well 12mths away but the decision process has already started) to replacing my company car.
I have the usual issue around opting out and getting something more interesting or staying with the security and lack of hassle of the company car.
My calculations tell me that, for the price of a Focus ST3 on my company scheme, I can buy and run a nice '02 M3 (circa £22k) (that's based on it being worth £10k in 3yrs time with 100k miles and costing £1600/year to service/maintain).
It's heart vs head stuff - start living and run a proper sports car or take the safe option and not worry when I leave the ST parked in a station car park. (I cover 20k miles a year on business and only my fuel costs are refunded by the way).
Any views as which way you'd go and why (oh and on the viability of my costings for the M3)?
I have the usual issue around opting out and getting something more interesting or staying with the security and lack of hassle of the company car.
My calculations tell me that, for the price of a Focus ST3 on my company scheme, I can buy and run a nice '02 M3 (circa £22k) (that's based on it being worth £10k in 3yrs time with 100k miles and costing £1600/year to service/maintain).
It's heart vs head stuff - start living and run a proper sports car or take the safe option and not worry when I leave the ST parked in a station car park. (I cover 20k miles a year on business and only my fuel costs are refunded by the way).
Any views as which way you'd go and why (oh and on the viability of my costings for the M3)?
If fuel is covered - M3 all the way - a safe purchase with the warranty intact, and you'll love it.
not only will you get more power than the ST and in certain circumstances, will it be more chuckable, but it'll be a very nice place to be.
Straight 6 vs Turbo-lump? i know where my money would go - heck, it has done!
M Raks
not only will you get more power than the ST and in certain circumstances, will it be more chuckable, but it'll be a very nice place to be.
Straight 6 vs Turbo-lump? i know where my money would go - heck, it has done!
M Raks
I opted out, giving up an ST200 a couple years back and went for a 2001 M5 using the car allowance to help fund it. Similar idea that in three years time with about 100k on the clock it would still be worth 10k, whereas staying in the company scheme and paying additional tax it would have cost me £18k+ over 3 year with nothing to show for it at the end.
Ford ST Vs BMW //M bit of a no brainer
Ford ST Vs BMW //M bit of a no brainer
)I always knew that I'd get a very pro M3 view from this forum - that's great since its what I want to hear.
However, what if the question was a used M3 vs a company 130i M Sport? (I can just about squeeze them into letting me have one of these). The overall costs of the options would be broadly comparable.
I'd have imagined that the a new 130 that could be thrashed without conscience would be as enjoyable as an M3 day to day (I'm not into track days so that's not a consideration)
However, what if the question was a used M3 vs a company 130i M Sport? (I can just about squeeze them into letting me have one of these). The overall costs of the options would be broadly comparable.
I'd have imagined that the a new 130 that could be thrashed without conscience would be as enjoyable as an M3 day to day (I'm not into track days so that's not a consideration)
a fair point - I'm sure everyone would recommend the M3 with somebody else's money but how many of them would honestly make that decision with their own?
what can I expect in terms of bills on an '02 M3 with 40k miles assuming I keep it for a further 3 years and 60k miles?
(all work will be done by a local independent)
what can I expect in terms of bills on an '02 M3 with 40k miles assuming I keep it for a further 3 years and 60k miles?
(all work will be done by a local independent)
well i did have the same situation - spend on new or on used car.
i opted for an all-rounder package that can deliver EVERYTHING i wanted - hence the M3.
Not sure on servicing costs - but in all, i'd expect 1 major-ish service and 1 oil change, as dictated by those miles you intend to cover. what's that - circa £1500?
i opted for an all-rounder package that can deliver EVERYTHING i wanted - hence the M3.
Not sure on servicing costs - but in all, i'd expect 1 major-ish service and 1 oil change, as dictated by those miles you intend to cover. what's that - circa £1500?
If you drive it hard and do a few trackdays then bank on a service every 10k miles, 12k if you are nicer to it, about a grand for an oil and inspection service.
The 130i Msport is only 13 seconds per lap behind the E46 M3 at 8:35 so the performance is pretty good, it has an open diff which may be a consideration for you. People also complain about the ride on runflats.
Test drive them both and see if the extra performance of the M3 is worth the money to you?
The 130i Msport is only 13 seconds per lap behind the E46 M3 at 8:35 so the performance is pretty good, it has an open diff which may be a consideration for you. People also complain about the ride on runflats.
Test drive them both and see if the extra performance of the M3 is worth the money to you?
£1.6K / yr to fully maintain a M3?
I don't want to piss on your bonfire, but you have to realise that is very tight?
I am picking up an Estoril E46 next Friday (YEYEYEYEYYEYEEYYEEY), so have looked at the numbers loads.
Assuming 20K /yr, thats as good as near 2 services - so as said, £800 per year for both of them (Assuming independant, other wise 1.1K) - this is a rough number and averaged over InsI, and II, but near the mark I think.
Tyres, £200 a corner minimum. You'll be getting through these, and may have to buy some very soon after purchase (if tyres are old on car). It really depends how you drive, but I am estimating rears every 12 months, and fronts every 24 with me doing under 1/2 your milage. Certainly youll need £500 / year for tyres if you drive like a granny, going up to £1K + if you are hard on them for the 20K/yr.
Now for me, I am budgeting 1K / yr for the BMW warranty - you obviously are not. With servicing and tyres alone we are pretty much on (or past) your £1.6K budget with a big problem - you havent factored in any other consumables?
A full fitted set of disks+pads is the best part of a grand - youll almost certainly need pads and disks over the 40K miles. What if something goes wrong? The engines seem pretty darn good, but loads can go wrong on any car this complex - what if the gearbox goes, or the clutch - you have no slush left.
I think that assuming you can run one for £1.6K/yr @20K miles is off the mark by a margin of at least £1K - and this is assuming nothing expensive lets go. If you cant afford to use the BMW warranty@1K, then I dont think you can afford to run the car if it lets go IMO (now when the car is >60K and warranty is £2K, I will not renew, and self insure, but i'll have those funds on standby as and when)
Of course you should stretch yourself to get an awesome car if you enjoy it (as I plan to!!), but just don't over stretch yourself - thats all I am cautioning
Kindest,
Stu
I don't want to piss on your bonfire, but you have to realise that is very tight?
I am picking up an Estoril E46 next Friday (YEYEYEYEYYEYEEYYEEY), so have looked at the numbers loads.
Assuming 20K /yr, thats as good as near 2 services - so as said, £800 per year for both of them (Assuming independant, other wise 1.1K) - this is a rough number and averaged over InsI, and II, but near the mark I think.
Tyres, £200 a corner minimum. You'll be getting through these, and may have to buy some very soon after purchase (if tyres are old on car). It really depends how you drive, but I am estimating rears every 12 months, and fronts every 24 with me doing under 1/2 your milage. Certainly youll need £500 / year for tyres if you drive like a granny, going up to £1K + if you are hard on them for the 20K/yr.
Now for me, I am budgeting 1K / yr for the BMW warranty - you obviously are not. With servicing and tyres alone we are pretty much on (or past) your £1.6K budget with a big problem - you havent factored in any other consumables?
A full fitted set of disks+pads is the best part of a grand - youll almost certainly need pads and disks over the 40K miles. What if something goes wrong? The engines seem pretty darn good, but loads can go wrong on any car this complex - what if the gearbox goes, or the clutch - you have no slush left.
I think that assuming you can run one for £1.6K/yr @20K miles is off the mark by a margin of at least £1K - and this is assuming nothing expensive lets go. If you cant afford to use the BMW warranty@1K, then I dont think you can afford to run the car if it lets go IMO (now when the car is >60K and warranty is £2K, I will not renew, and self insure, but i'll have those funds on standby as and when)
Of course you should stretch yourself to get an awesome car if you enjoy it (as I plan to!!), but just don't over stretch yourself - thats all I am cautioning
Kindest,
Stu
stuthemong said:
£1.6K / yr to fully maintain a M3?
I don't want to piss on your bonfire, but you have to realise that is very tight?
I am picking up an Estoril E46 next Friday (YEYEYEYEYYEYEEYYEEY), so have looked at the numbers loads.
Assuming 20K /yr, thats as good as near 2 services - so as said, £800 per year for both of them (Assuming independant, other wise 1.1K) - this is a rough number and averaged over InsI, and II, but near the mark I think.
Tyres, £200 a corner minimum. You'll be getting through these, and may have to buy some very soon after purchase (if tyres are old on car). It really depends how you drive, but I am estimating rears every 12 months, and fronts every 24 with me doing under 1/2 your milage. Certainly youll need £500 / year for tyres if you drive like a granny, going up to £1K + if you are hard on them for the 20K/yr.
Now for me, I am budgeting 1K / yr for the BMW warranty - you obviously are not. With servicing and tyres alone we are pretty much on (or past) your £1.6K budget with a big problem - you havent factored in any other consumables?
A full fitted set of disks+pads is the best part of a grand - youll almost certainly need pads and disks over the 40K miles. What if something goes wrong? The engines seem pretty darn good, but loads can go wrong on any car this complex - what if the gearbox goes, or the clutch - you have no slush left.
I think that assuming you can run one for £1.6K/yr @20K miles is off the mark by a margin of at least £1K - and this is assuming nothing expensive lets go. If you cant afford to use the BMW warranty@1K, then I dont think you can afford to run the car if it lets go IMO (now when the car is >60K and warranty is £2K, I will not renew, and self insure, but i'll have those funds on standby as and when)
Of course you should stretch yourself to get an awesome car if you enjoy it (as I plan to!!), but just don't over stretch yourself - thats all I am cautioning
Kindest,
Stu
Once the big-end bearings have been done under the recall the running gear is fairly unstressed really, and should prove to be quite reliable.
I was doing 25k+ pa, a service every 14-15k (as long as you keep an eye on the oil levels you can stretch it a bit) and to be honest once you get over 60k miles I wouldn't bother with the BMW warranty - you'll save the £1k+ and by using an independant you can halve your servicing costs (BMW service is at £100+ per hour), so saving even more that you can put away for a rainy day (or towards your next mota)
25mpg is easily achievable if you do a mix of motorway (up to 100 cruise) and cross country and if it was my money, I'd have an M3 again no problem. Great car, quick, agile, comfortable, economic, ticks all the boxes for me (except there are just too many of them around, which is why I swapped for an M5
)some really good insights and advice - thanks
I can certainly afford to run an M3, it's just a question of priorities with family, mortgage etc.
That's why I want to understand how much it'll actually cost and why my 'budget' is set at about £22k. No way would I use a main dealer - there's a really good independent on my door step.
Part of the problem is that I don't have any 'car equity'as I've had company cars for years. Thinking that maybe a 330 Sport might be a useful buy for a couple of years as a stepping stone to an M3 (which in turn will be a stepping stone to an M5 or 911.
I can certainly afford to run an M3, it's just a question of priorities with family, mortgage etc.
That's why I want to understand how much it'll actually cost and why my 'budget' is set at about £22k. No way would I use a main dealer - there's a really good independent on my door step.
Part of the problem is that I don't have any 'car equity'as I've had company cars for years. Thinking that maybe a 330 Sport might be a useful buy for a couple of years as a stepping stone to an M3 (which in turn will be a stepping stone to an M5 or 911.
mondeoman,
I agree with what you are saying almost 100% - I agree that after 60K the warranty looks silly, and indys are the way.
Alfa,
OK, thats fine. I think it realstic that you could maintain for £2K/yr say, and it sounds as if you are not stretching yourself on that (i.e. should something happen above that youll be able to sort it and not be in a corner) - in which case, go for it
Stu
>> Edited by stuthemong on Friday 28th April 12:28
I agree with what you are saying almost 100% - I agree that after 60K the warranty looks silly, and indys are the way.
Alfa,
OK, thats fine. I think it realstic that you could maintain for £2K/yr say, and it sounds as if you are not stretching yourself on that (i.e. should something happen above that youll be able to sort it and not be in a corner) - in which case, go for it
Stu
>> Edited by stuthemong on Friday 28th April 12:28
Hi,
Not sure why running an M3 should be so expensive...
I'm on my fourth M3 and my 2nd E46.
My servicing is all done by a BM Main dealer...
oil service £90 + supplied my own oil £35
inspec I £450
inspec II £650
Brakes/pads upgraded and changed myself £1k, should last another 50k
Warranty at £1050 (<60k)...optional, mines runs out in Apr 07 and I wont renew.
Tyres Mich 19" PS2 all round £700, fronts last 22k rears 18k.
In two years this is all i've spent...oh yeh and the £10k on mods, vorsteiner cf hood, acs cf, acs alloys...list is endless lol
Mits
Not sure why running an M3 should be so expensive...
I'm on my fourth M3 and my 2nd E46.
My servicing is all done by a BM Main dealer...
oil service £90 + supplied my own oil £35
inspec I £450
inspec II £650
Brakes/pads upgraded and changed myself £1k, should last another 50k
Warranty at £1050 (<60k)...optional, mines runs out in Apr 07 and I wont renew.
Tyres Mich 19" PS2 all round £700, fronts last 22k rears 18k.
In two years this is all i've spent...oh yeh and the £10k on mods, vorsteiner cf hood, acs cf, acs alloys...list is endless lol
Mits
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