8 Series - twitchy in the wet
Discussion
Theyre normally very well planted - but a bit fussy about tyres. What make do you have on the rear?
I once put Avon ZZ3's on my 850 and it was downright dangerous! They were off within 6 weeks.
I'd never describe an 8 as twitchy. Sure, you can kick the tail out but it has to be provoked. If the tyres are good, check that they pressures are ok.
I once put Avon ZZ3's on my 850 and it was downright dangerous! They were off within 6 weeks.
I'd never describe an 8 as twitchy. Sure, you can kick the tail out but it has to be provoked. If the tyres are good, check that they pressures are ok.
Job38 said:
Mine had the old Eagle F1s, now on Falken 452s. (but not had them on long enough to compare)
Respect is needed in the wet!
Had a few twitches in the dry too.....(I guess its all that torque).
The CSi's are a bit of a different animal! Not only do you have the torque of a Deltic loco, you have a direct engine/rear wheel link with no torque converter to ease delivery.Respect is needed in the wet!
Had a few twitches in the dry too.....(I guess its all that torque).
When I first got my CSi the ASC was inoperative. You learn to be very smooth - particularly at road juncions. I drove it like that for 6 months and when I fixed the problem, the car felt decidedly tame. I'd learn to use the throttle to steer without really noticing. Theyre so beautifully controllable without ASC, its worth turning it off for a while to appreciate the cars true dynamics.
8Tech said:
So is no-one using the traction control? With that switched on as normal you would have to be very unlucky to get the rear to break away.
Thats the thing, traction control is on but the rear washes round when going round wet corners/roundabouts. Going to check the tyres and pressures at the weekend, probably just need better ones on the back.Edited by 8Tech on Tuesday 8th July 17:31
The other thing that affects the powerful BMWs is having different tyres on the front and the back, it really does make them quite dangerouse.
You haven't got a different brand or pattern on the front to the rear have you??
If they are the same then check the rear trailing arm bushes, these are probably shot to bits by now and makes the back end very twitchy indeed.
You haven't got a different brand or pattern on the front to the rear have you??
If they are the same then check the rear trailing arm bushes, these are probably shot to bits by now and makes the back end very twitchy indeed.
Yeah, it's got Pirelli's on the front and Uniroyals on the back (bought it like that), if the pressures aren't down then I'll be buying a new set I think, then if that doesn't cure it I'll get a garage to give it a check over. Thanks for all the info guys.
Edited by Gun on Wednesday 9th July 13:53
8Tech said:
So is no-one using the traction control? With that switched on as normal you would have to be very unlucky to get the rear to break away.
Yup, traction control on, LOTS of yellow triangle flashing, especially pulling out of junctions.Edited by 8Tech on Tuesday 8th July 17:31
I accept it is very wet today though
Talkwrench said:
Job38 said:
Mine had the old Eagle F1s, now on Falken 452s. (but not had them on long enough to compare)
Respect is needed in the wet!
Had a few twitches in the dry too.....(I guess its all that torque).
The CSi's are a bit of a different animal! Not only do you have the torque of a Deltic loco, you have a direct engine/rear wheel link with no torque converter to ease delivery.Respect is needed in the wet!
Had a few twitches in the dry too.....(I guess its all that torque).
When I first got my CSi the ASC was inoperative. You learn to be very smooth - particularly at road juncions. I drove it like that for 6 months and when I fixed the problem, the car felt decidedly tame. I'd learn to use the throttle to steer without really noticing. Theyre so beautifully controllable without ASC, its worth turning it off for a while to appreciate the cars true dynamics.
Back to your OP, Gun, I'm pretty sure your problem is tyre related.
Are the rears old and hard? Cheap brands on the back of RWD cars are just as bad. Also worth checking the rear suspension bushes and shocks. Worn rear bushes with less than great tyres will give you exactly what you describe.
Does the 8 series have adjustable toe-in at the back? If so, get the back tracked and try adding a bit of toe-in to the rear wheels and see if that stops it washing out as badly.
Does the 8 series have adjustable toe-in at the back? If so, get the back tracked and try adding a bit of toe-in to the rear wheels and see if that stops it washing out as badly.
Edited by oagent on Friday 11th July 12:10
I can guarantee it is the mixed tyres, I had pilot sports on the front and pilot sport 2's on the back of my CSL when I collected it and I nearly lost the back end just overtaking someone on the motorway in the damp!
Thought it was knackered rear trailing arm bushes and took it into BMW as one of the techs races CSL's, he took it out and at the first round about said 'you have got mixed tyres on it'. Pulled over and sure enough they were.
Changed to same all round and the car was solid as a rock!!
The other day I spent 24 hours with Pilot Sport 2's on the rear of my 320d and Falken FK452s on the front and the same thing happened, if I hadn't have had the experience with the CSL I would have thought my rear suspension had gone, you can't mix tyres on these cars, they get to the point where they are almost dangerous.
Get 4 Falken FK452's on all round, great tyre at a superb price.
Thought it was knackered rear trailing arm bushes and took it into BMW as one of the techs races CSL's, he took it out and at the first round about said 'you have got mixed tyres on it'. Pulled over and sure enough they were.
Changed to same all round and the car was solid as a rock!!
The other day I spent 24 hours with Pilot Sport 2's on the rear of my 320d and Falken FK452s on the front and the same thing happened, if I hadn't have had the experience with the CSL I would have thought my rear suspension had gone, you can't mix tyres on these cars, they get to the point where they are almost dangerous.
Get 4 Falken FK452's on all round, great tyre at a superb price.
gizlaroc said:
I can guarantee it is the mixed tyres, I had pilot sports on the front and pilot sport 2's on the back of my CSL when I collected it and I nearly lost the back end just overtaking someone on the motorway in the damp!
Thought it was knackered rear trailing arm bushes and took it into BMW as one of the techs races CSL's, he took it out and at the first round about said 'you have got mixed tyres on it'. Pulled over and sure enough they were.
Changed to same all round and the car was solid as a rock!!
The other day I spent 24 hours with Pilot Sport 2's on the rear of my 320d and Falken FK452s on the front and the same thing happened, if I hadn't have had the experience with the CSL I would have thought my rear suspension had gone, you can't mix tyres on these cars, they get to the point where they are almost dangerous.
Get 4 Falken FK452's on all round, great tyre at a superb price.
Yeah I think you're right, I've got Pirelli P zero Rosso's on the front, they look brand new as well, and some sort of Uniroyals on the back, the tread also seems pretty shallow as well, so I'll look into getting some P zero's on the back to match if they make them in this size.Thought it was knackered rear trailing arm bushes and took it into BMW as one of the techs races CSL's, he took it out and at the first round about said 'you have got mixed tyres on it'. Pulled over and sure enough they were.
Changed to same all round and the car was solid as a rock!!
The other day I spent 24 hours with Pilot Sport 2's on the rear of my 320d and Falken FK452s on the front and the same thing happened, if I hadn't have had the experience with the CSL I would have thought my rear suspension had gone, you can't mix tyres on these cars, they get to the point where they are almost dangerous.
Get 4 Falken FK452's on all round, great tyre at a superb price.
Out of interest does someone know the sizes of the tyres front and back, I've got the standard 5 spoke M Sport alloys on mine, cheers.
235/45 ZR 17 on the front and 265/40 ZR 17 on the rear.
You have quite probably pinpointed the problem by saying that the tread is fairly worn.
The tyres will have hardened and the levels of grip seriously diminished. I must confess, there have been times when both my 850's have had a mix of manufacturer front and rear and with the exception of the appalling Avon's, I've never had a problem of balance or twitchiness. Having said that, I would never recommend mixing - its just another potential source for handling imbalance.
If new rears dont ease the problem (and remember to let them bed in for a couple of hundred miles before making a judgement), look to the longitudinal arm bushes - particularly the large ones at the front end of the arm where they attach to the body shell. Very prone to wear and give exactly the symptoms described. Theyre around £65 each and I'd guess about the same for fitting at a decent indie.
You have quite probably pinpointed the problem by saying that the tread is fairly worn.
The tyres will have hardened and the levels of grip seriously diminished. I must confess, there have been times when both my 850's have had a mix of manufacturer front and rear and with the exception of the appalling Avon's, I've never had a problem of balance or twitchiness. Having said that, I would never recommend mixing - its just another potential source for handling imbalance.
If new rears dont ease the problem (and remember to let them bed in for a couple of hundred miles before making a judgement), look to the longitudinal arm bushes - particularly the large ones at the front end of the arm where they attach to the body shell. Very prone to wear and give exactly the symptoms described. Theyre around £65 each and I'd guess about the same for fitting at a decent indie.
Talkwrench said:
235/45 ZR 17 on the front and 265/40 ZR 17 on the rear.
You have quite probably pinpointed the problem by saying that the tread is fairly worn.
The tyres will have hardened and the levels of grip seriously diminished. I must confess, there have been times when both my 850's have had a mix of manufacturer front and rear and with the exception of the appalling Avon's, I've never had a problem of balance or twitchiness. Having said that, I would never recommend mixing - its just another potential source for handling imbalance.
If new rears dont ease the problem (and remember to let them bed in for a couple of hundred miles before making a judgement), look to the longitudinal arm bushes - particularly the large ones at the front end of the arm where they attach to the body shell. Very prone to wear and give exactly the symptoms described. Theyre around £65 each and I'd guess about the same for fitting at a decent indie.
Great info there, cheers. I've just checked the pressures and they are down in the low 20's at the rear so I'm going to inflate them and see if that improves things.You have quite probably pinpointed the problem by saying that the tread is fairly worn.
The tyres will have hardened and the levels of grip seriously diminished. I must confess, there have been times when both my 850's have had a mix of manufacturer front and rear and with the exception of the appalling Avon's, I've never had a problem of balance or twitchiness. Having said that, I would never recommend mixing - its just another potential source for handling imbalance.
If new rears dont ease the problem (and remember to let them bed in for a couple of hundred miles before making a judgement), look to the longitudinal arm bushes - particularly the large ones at the front end of the arm where they attach to the body shell. Very prone to wear and give exactly the symptoms described. Theyre around £65 each and I'd guess about the same for fitting at a decent indie.
A few people have mentioned Avons. I used to have Avon ZZ1's on the back of my Lexus Soarer.
I always reckoned they were the WORST tyre in the World because they always let go in the wet at low speeds.
My brother always reckoned they were the BEST tyre in the World because they always let go in the wet at low speeds. But then he had to change his tyres more frequently than he changed his oil.
When it was wet, I always seemed to go into the car park at work sideways. Of course, it wasn't always accidental... Seriously though, while I haven't had an 8 series, my experience with a 525i, a 540i and a 750i is that big, heavy powerful BMWs really do need good tyres.
Nick
I always reckoned they were the WORST tyre in the World because they always let go in the wet at low speeds.
My brother always reckoned they were the BEST tyre in the World because they always let go in the wet at low speeds. But then he had to change his tyres more frequently than he changed his oil.
When it was wet, I always seemed to go into the car park at work sideways. Of course, it wasn't always accidental... Seriously though, while I haven't had an 8 series, my experience with a 525i, a 540i and a 750i is that big, heavy powerful BMWs really do need good tyres.
Nick
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff