huge problems with Xk8 and dont know where to turn next
Discussion
I bought a 1997 low milage XK8 4.5 years ago (£30,000)from the main Jaguar dealer in my home town. It has only ever been serviced there (annually)and has consistently been in for repair work even though I have bearly done 30 thousand miles.It had a service done recently (£743,£280 of which was for transmission oil change even tho I had NO problems with the gear box)A week after the service the car really started to shake violently and noisily and I had it towed to an independent garage for assessment.They thought it best to call me in as they had only gone as far as checking the spark plugs and air filter,of which were highly corroded and filthy and looked like they had never been changed.They advised me my problem with the engine was possibly due to poor vehicle maintainence and were shocked when I said it had been maintained by the main Jag dealership.
I had it towed back to the jag garage and for 2months it has been sitting on their forecourt.I have been told it was? then was not?due to a design fault Jag had with nikasil lined engines (which until then I had never heard of) then it was the big end and little end had failed. When I asked for a report in writing I was told they could not do this as the car has not been in the workshop and they refuse to look at it unless I pay......and if I didnt remove the car from their premises they were going to charge me storage fees. I have no idea where to turn to next. I dont understand how they can say i need a new engine but then say they havnt done any testing. i am confused how with each servicing they were charging me for expensive items to be changed and apparently overlooked the smaller things. Should these and filters etc been changed automatically with regular servicing or is it up to the individual? 2 months down the line I still have a car I am told needs a new engine but have no idea why. I have have no trust in them whatso ever. Looking back at my service sheets I notice i have had 6 new indicator stalks (in the evening when indicating to turn left I was loosing my lights) The garage insisted it was faulty stalks each time even though I suggested a circuit fault. I was told when I bought the car it had had 1 previous ownwer then when I recieved the details from DVLC it had had 5 in less than 5 years. Also despite repeatedly asking for the service history they never produced any documentation. I feel I was probably sold a car that had already had serious problems but being female was completley duped. Can anyone offer me advice as to what to do next as at the moment I have a car that is worthless.
I had it towed back to the jag garage and for 2months it has been sitting on their forecourt.I have been told it was? then was not?due to a design fault Jag had with nikasil lined engines (which until then I had never heard of) then it was the big end and little end had failed. When I asked for a report in writing I was told they could not do this as the car has not been in the workshop and they refuse to look at it unless I pay......and if I didnt remove the car from their premises they were going to charge me storage fees. I have no idea where to turn to next. I dont understand how they can say i need a new engine but then say they havnt done any testing. i am confused how with each servicing they were charging me for expensive items to be changed and apparently overlooked the smaller things. Should these and filters etc been changed automatically with regular servicing or is it up to the individual? 2 months down the line I still have a car I am told needs a new engine but have no idea why. I have have no trust in them whatso ever. Looking back at my service sheets I notice i have had 6 new indicator stalks (in the evening when indicating to turn left I was loosing my lights) The garage insisted it was faulty stalks each time even though I suggested a circuit fault. I was told when I bought the car it had had 1 previous ownwer then when I recieved the details from DVLC it had had 5 in less than 5 years. Also despite repeatedly asking for the service history they never produced any documentation. I feel I was probably sold a car that had already had serious problems but being female was completley duped. Can anyone offer me advice as to what to do next as at the moment I have a car that is worthless.
I hope some of the more knowledgeable members here will offer you some constructive advice, but I just want to say I'm absolutely appalled at how you have been treated. It's not short of shocking, and unfortunately, you're probably right in thinking that you've had it that bad being female. Having said that, unscrupulous dealers would try to screw anyone over who would let them (not knowing much about your car unfortunately doesn't help) be that a man or a woman.
I think you should probably write to Jaguar, detailing your experience with this dealership, backed up with all the receipts for all the "work" they've done, and a written report from a reputable independent dealership, if you can get it, and hope Jaguar takes notice and do something about it.
Good luck!
I think you should probably write to Jaguar, detailing your experience with this dealership, backed up with all the receipts for all the "work" they've done, and a written report from a reputable independent dealership, if you can get it, and hope Jaguar takes notice and do something about it.
Good luck!
Your situation sounds absolutely shocking.
Try to find Broardbeans posting on this forum
- sorry I don't know how to set up a link to it, Vladman if you're following this could you help? - this will give a comprehensive and well informed resume of what can go wrong with the V8 engined cars.
If you are not making any progress with the dealer I'd suggest you take legal advice, possibly with the view of having an independent enginerers report prepared and use this as a basis for either negotiating a satisfactory solution or taking legal action.
I'm amazed your car has had so many indicator switches replaced for example, and this suggests to me the dealer has been fixing the symptom of a fault rather than the fault itself. If you can prove this is the case then there's clearly a question of competence involved which will cast doubt over his ability to properly maintain your car
You may also like to get in touch with and join the Jaguar Enthuisasts' Club. The membership fee, even if you join just to get help, will give you access to several, very highly regarded technicial experts, who would be able to advise and help you find an independent Jaguar specialist in your area. www.jec.org.uk
Hope this helps
JS
Try to find Broardbeans posting on this forum
- sorry I don't know how to set up a link to it, Vladman if you're following this could you help? - this will give a comprehensive and well informed resume of what can go wrong with the V8 engined cars.
If you are not making any progress with the dealer I'd suggest you take legal advice, possibly with the view of having an independent enginerers report prepared and use this as a basis for either negotiating a satisfactory solution or taking legal action.
I'm amazed your car has had so many indicator switches replaced for example, and this suggests to me the dealer has been fixing the symptom of a fault rather than the fault itself. If you can prove this is the case then there's clearly a question of competence involved which will cast doubt over his ability to properly maintain your car
You may also like to get in touch with and join the Jaguar Enthuisasts' Club. The membership fee, even if you join just to get help, will give you access to several, very highly regarded technicial experts, who would be able to advise and help you find an independent Jaguar specialist in your area. www.jec.org.uk
Hope this helps
JS
sjwb said:
Nikasil engines were renewed by Jaguar Cars as warranty failures.
I suggest you contact the company via Customer Support.
Good luck.
I suggest you contact the company via Customer Support.
Good luck.
Don't get her hopes up. The whole Nikasil engine saga (which has been well documented in this forum) was made worse by Jaguar NOT being helpful and only those with concrete cases got warranty support. There are a number of serious issues these cars are exposed to particularly if poorly maintained which is what this case looks like.I feel independent legal advice may be the way to go, from what the OP told us the dealership have behaved shockingly.
groomi said:
sjwb said:
Nikasil engines were renewed by Jaguar Cars as warranty failures.
I suggest you contact the company via Customer Support.
Good luck.
I suggest you contact the company via Customer Support.
Good luck.
Don't get her hopes up. The whole Nikasil engine saga (which has been well documented in this forum) was made worse by Jaguar NOT being helpful and only those with concrete cases got warranty support. There are a number of serious issues these cars are exposed to particularly if poorly maintained which is what this case looks like.I feel independent legal advice may be the way to go, from what the OP told us the dealership have behaved shockingly.
I am horrified by your tale of woe and think you may need to get an independent inspection and consider sueing the dealer. The description of the sale is the first warning and six indicator stalks !!! I would recommend joining the www.xkec.co.uk as this is the Jaguar XK8/R enthusiasts forum as we are only involved with the XK the JEC does all Jaguars, but joining one will give you access to more help (JEC have tools for loan/hire if you want to do work yourself) I suggest you get the car removed immeadiately from the dealer and can recommend Jaguar Specialist Parts in Sittingbourne for re-building engines should that even prove to be required http://www.jaguarspares.net/contact.htm
I do not think that Pistonheads allow name and shame but we certainly do at the XKEC (members only side)
Nikasil is rarely an issue now as the engines were only affected by high Sulphur fuel (gone since 2000) Oil changes on 8s are vital as the tollerances on the engines are very tight and the use of the wrong oil or worse not changing frequently enough are leading to a lot of problems with cams and bottom ends.
I do not think that Pistonheads allow name and shame but we certainly do at the XKEC (members only side)
Nikasil is rarely an issue now as the engines were only affected by high Sulphur fuel (gone since 2000) Oil changes on 8s are vital as the tollerances on the engines are very tight and the use of the wrong oil or worse not changing frequently enough are leading to a lot of problems with cams and bottom ends.
Sounds like you were sold a lemon.
First things first, do you have ALL the paperwork for this car? Namely the original advert for the car, detailing its number of owners etc.? Probably not.
Also all the servicing records? You can go to another dealer and ask them to print off all the work ever done to the car. Be advised not to go to another dealer also owned by the same group.
Get your car inspected by a Jaguar HQ Technician, they will be able to tell what has or has not been done by the main dealer, if it has been serviced in accordance with Jag requirements. (As of course it should have been). So your first port of call is to Jag Customer services, and ask for assistance. You will have to get past the first line of defence, so I would ask for the contact details of the senior individuals to deal with your request. Put it all in writing i.e. make your case. Jag will also be able to access their own servicing computers and look into things also. You may want to ask them to send you the service history?
The legal route is expensive and time consuming, no doubt the Dealership in question is counting on you not having the stamina to pursue them.
Also keep us in the loop.
G
PS There is only one Jag dealer in Buckinghamshire!!??
First things first, do you have ALL the paperwork for this car? Namely the original advert for the car, detailing its number of owners etc.? Probably not.
Also all the servicing records? You can go to another dealer and ask them to print off all the work ever done to the car. Be advised not to go to another dealer also owned by the same group.
Get your car inspected by a Jaguar HQ Technician, they will be able to tell what has or has not been done by the main dealer, if it has been serviced in accordance with Jag requirements. (As of course it should have been). So your first port of call is to Jag Customer services, and ask for assistance. You will have to get past the first line of defence, so I would ask for the contact details of the senior individuals to deal with your request. Put it all in writing i.e. make your case. Jag will also be able to access their own servicing computers and look into things also. You may want to ask them to send you the service history?
The legal route is expensive and time consuming, no doubt the Dealership in question is counting on you not having the stamina to pursue them.
Also keep us in the loop.
G
PS There is only one Jag dealer in Buckinghamshire!!??
Edited by Triple7 on Sunday 8th July 12:01
Thankyou to every one who has replied to me on this. Your advice and opinions have spurred me on.
Yesterday I tried to track down the previous owner to me......I had been told by the garage prior to purchase that the reason for them selling the car was that it was only used in the summer as a weekend car, garaged most of the time and the couple had just had twins so decided to sell. I drove round to the address,panicked to see a for sale sign so rang the door bell hoping I could ask the prev owner why they sold the XK8.I was told that the couple had moved 3 years ago because they had a 6month old baby ( only child ,no twins 4.5 years ago!)and the lady pointed out that the garage was so small and narrow it was hard work for her to get her tiny car into safely. I know this would not stand up in court as it would be my word against the garages but I dont know how a main dealership you go to thinking they are above board and honest can be so underhanded right from the start. To make sure there is no misunderstaning regarding the dealership it is Stratstone Jaguar at Northfiels in Milton Keynes.
Yesterday I tried to track down the previous owner to me......I had been told by the garage prior to purchase that the reason for them selling the car was that it was only used in the summer as a weekend car, garaged most of the time and the couple had just had twins so decided to sell. I drove round to the address,panicked to see a for sale sign so rang the door bell hoping I could ask the prev owner why they sold the XK8.I was told that the couple had moved 3 years ago because they had a 6month old baby ( only child ,no twins 4.5 years ago!)and the lady pointed out that the garage was so small and narrow it was hard work for her to get her tiny car into safely. I know this would not stand up in court as it would be my word against the garages but I dont know how a main dealership you go to thinking they are above board and honest can be so underhanded right from the start. To make sure there is no misunderstaning regarding the dealership it is Stratstone Jaguar at Northfiels in Milton Keynes.
Another place you can contact for help are trading standards.
Are you a member of either the AA or the RAC? both organisation have legal dept. who can help in these situations.
Then there is Jaguar customer service. You might find that someone at the AA/RAC can give you a better phone number than the "normal" one that is publicised.
Are you a member of either the AA or the RAC? both organisation have legal dept. who can help in these situations.
Then there is Jaguar customer service. You might find that someone at the AA/RAC can give you a better phone number than the "normal" one that is publicised.
You have had it for 4.5 years, no chance of claiming it was a lemon in the UK 
You are unlikely to get anywhere re sale details after such a long time but the service and the repeated failed fixes may lead to some redress. Legal route is tough but tempting.
From £30K for a 99T in Jan 03 your car is now worth about £10-12K. Do not waste £7k on a new engine as they can be rebuilt for much less. Get a proper independent inspection, preferably from someone who can re-build but at least a Jaguar specialist. Make a complaint to Jaguar customer services as they need to know even if you find it is cheaper to fix without their help. If with RAC/AA get them to visit when it is being done if you are going the legal route. Elite in Derby have a good reputation and may be your closest experts ?
Let us know what you choose to do, good luck
Richard
You are unlikely to get anywhere re sale details after such a long time but the service and the repeated failed fixes may lead to some redress. Legal route is tough but tempting.From £30K for a 99T in Jan 03 your car is now worth about £10-12K. Do not waste £7k on a new engine as they can be rebuilt for much less. Get a proper independent inspection, preferably from someone who can re-build but at least a Jaguar specialist. Make a complaint to Jaguar customer services as they need to know even if you find it is cheaper to fix without their help. If with RAC/AA get them to visit when it is being done if you are going the legal route. Elite in Derby have a good reputation and may be your closest experts ?
Let us know what you choose to do, good luck
Richard
It sounds to me that you have been very reasonable and made every attempt to look after the car, keeping it in top condition.
All of the filters etc should have been replaced in line with the schedule, and the dealer should be able to show you that.
As regards the service history your request is reasonable.
My recommendation is that you have the car removed immediately to avoid charges.
The issue here is that you have paid a lot of money for work and you aren't confident that is has been, and you have a report from somebody with some relevent qualifications that suggests that work may not have been done. That is fraud. It could also be that the car just wasn't worked on properly, and that would no be befitting a main agent.
I would then have your solicitor send a letter to the Dealer principal & their head office, asking them to help as an indicator of goodwill.
I would in the meantime get a copy of Jaguar World Monthly and find a specialist with a reputation to quote and have them do the work.
If the dealer wants to help, accept the offer.
But if the dealer doesn't help, have the dealer remove the engine and remove the ancilliaries, then in the presence of a Solicitor remove the heads, sump & then bearings. There will be dead giveaway evidence as to whether the dealer has done their job or not, if they haven't I would sue them. Having the Solicitor present is crucial because it gives your evidence some legitimacy, which looks good in the eyes of the court.
All of the filters etc should have been replaced in line with the schedule, and the dealer should be able to show you that.
As regards the service history your request is reasonable.
My recommendation is that you have the car removed immediately to avoid charges.
The issue here is that you have paid a lot of money for work and you aren't confident that is has been, and you have a report from somebody with some relevent qualifications that suggests that work may not have been done. That is fraud. It could also be that the car just wasn't worked on properly, and that would no be befitting a main agent.
I would then have your solicitor send a letter to the Dealer principal & their head office, asking them to help as an indicator of goodwill.
I would in the meantime get a copy of Jaguar World Monthly and find a specialist with a reputation to quote and have them do the work.
If the dealer wants to help, accept the offer.
But if the dealer doesn't help, have the dealer remove the engine and remove the ancilliaries, then in the presence of a Solicitor remove the heads, sump & then bearings. There will be dead giveaway evidence as to whether the dealer has done their job or not, if they haven't I would sue them. Having the Solicitor present is crucial because it gives your evidence some legitimacy, which looks good in the eyes of the court.
Bastards
No wonder pendragon are on their arse if they treat customers this way.
I still would suggest contacting Jaguar consumer affairs, if nothing else but to highlight the appalling service you've received. In my experiance (as an ex Jaguar main dealer employee) the consumer affairs team are usually pretty understanding to Jaguar owners.
No wonder pendragon are on their arse if they treat customers this way.
I still would suggest contacting Jaguar consumer affairs, if nothing else but to highlight the appalling service you've received. In my experiance (as an ex Jaguar main dealer employee) the consumer affairs team are usually pretty understanding to Jaguar owners.
Sadly I can offer no technical advice over what others have already done. I just wanted to post to reassure you that you HAVE been treated terribly if what you say is true, and that you MUST pursue them to the bitter end. If not for the money you have clearly wasted but for the principle and the pride of being able to prove them wrong.
Everything in writing, everything copied to Jaguar UK customer relations and a solicitor (even a friendly one you dont formally retain at this stage).
Lay down the entire history of you and the car, list all the things you have paid for on their advice and how unhappy you are to be told by an independent mechanic that the car has patantly not been maintained. Demand all their documentation and a joint inspection of the car if they wont put it right. Even if they don't take you up on it, it is very beneficial later on in court to be able to prove you offered them the chance to look into it and they refused.
Good luck and keep us all informed.
Everything in writing, everything copied to Jaguar UK customer relations and a solicitor (even a friendly one you dont formally retain at this stage).
Lay down the entire history of you and the car, list all the things you have paid for on their advice and how unhappy you are to be told by an independent mechanic that the car has patantly not been maintained. Demand all their documentation and a joint inspection of the car if they wont put it right. Even if they don't take you up on it, it is very beneficial later on in court to be able to prove you offered them the chance to look into it and they refused.
Good luck and keep us all informed.
Once again thank you to everyone who has offered me advice. I am in the process of collating my service history sheets from Stratstones and chasing up the ones I never received. So far can see no sign of filters or plugs being changed unless they are part of service kit JML20271!
I note I was wrong about the indicator stalk replacements....to date Ive had 7 not 6 !
Racing Developments have written a brief report stating that they did a compression check on all cylinders and the drivers side bank was lower than recommended. The car showed a fault code on the dash which only Jaguar can access and recommends Jaguar do all engine tests available,( which they are refusing to do unless I pay for it.) RD also stated the poor condition of the filter and very poor condition of spark plugs. The response from Stratstone, Milton keynes and Jaguar themselves was that due to the age of the car ( irrelevant of its low milage and Jaguar dealership maintanance) neither of the two are prepared to do anything to help. I thought the average car would probably do about 100,000 before needing a new engine......but hey......I'M a woman!
I have gone and bought myself another car ( after hiring a car for 2 months already thought it would be cheaper) whilst my XK sits and waits. If this takes a year to resolve then so be it........
I have already spoken to trading standards who think I have a case, I am contacting the various forums you have suggested could also be helpful and if I get sufficient proof for negligent or fraudulent servicing then will take them to court. I hope this will also help others in the future when purchasing a car. IF I could turn the clock back 4.5years I would have spent my £30,000 totally differently, probably spent £10,000 on something that didnt look as good, was still running and be treated with some curtesy and respect. HUGE thanks to you all and will keep you in the loop.
I note I was wrong about the indicator stalk replacements....to date Ive had 7 not 6 !
Racing Developments have written a brief report stating that they did a compression check on all cylinders and the drivers side bank was lower than recommended. The car showed a fault code on the dash which only Jaguar can access and recommends Jaguar do all engine tests available,( which they are refusing to do unless I pay for it.) RD also stated the poor condition of the filter and very poor condition of spark plugs. The response from Stratstone, Milton keynes and Jaguar themselves was that due to the age of the car ( irrelevant of its low milage and Jaguar dealership maintanance) neither of the two are prepared to do anything to help. I thought the average car would probably do about 100,000 before needing a new engine......but hey......I'M a woman!
I have gone and bought myself another car ( after hiring a car for 2 months already thought it would be cheaper) whilst my XK sits and waits. If this takes a year to resolve then so be it........
I have already spoken to trading standards who think I have a case, I am contacting the various forums you have suggested could also be helpful and if I get sufficient proof for negligent or fraudulent servicing then will take them to court. I hope this will also help others in the future when purchasing a car. IF I could turn the clock back 4.5years I would have spent my £30,000 totally differently, probably spent £10,000 on something that didnt look as good, was still running and be treated with some curtesy and respect. HUGE thanks to you all and will keep you in the loop.
Thanks for the update. I disagree with you on the last part though. The XK is a fabulous car, don't let the bad dealership experience and ongoing woes detract from this.
In order to get your car back in tip top condition do you know what is required. Is it a rebuild/new engine? Will this alone solve all the troubles or do you have other issues with the car.
Jaguar have been known to refuse to help, first salvo and all that, but keep up the pressure. They in the end may meet you half way with a new engine, or you pay the labour and they pay the parts. But hopefully a proposition of a court case will give Stratstones the shove they need. In the interim, good luck.
In order to get your car back in tip top condition do you know what is required. Is it a rebuild/new engine? Will this alone solve all the troubles or do you have other issues with the car.
Jaguar have been known to refuse to help, first salvo and all that, but keep up the pressure. They in the end may meet you half way with a new engine, or you pay the labour and they pay the parts. But hopefully a proposition of a court case will give Stratstones the shove they need. In the interim, good luck.
Triple7 said:
Thanks for the update. I disagree with you on the last part though. The XK is a fabulous car, don't let the bad dealership experience and ongoing woes detract from this.
In order to get your car back in tip top condition do you know what is required. Is it a rebuild/new engine? Will this alone solve all the troubles or do you have other issues with the car.
Jaguar have been known to refuse to help, first salvo and all that, but keep up the pressure. They in the end may meet you half way with a new engine, or you pay the labour and they pay the parts. But hopefully a proposition of a court case will give Stratstones the shove they need. In the interim, good luck.
There are also people out there who can rebuild these engines. If you search back through this group theres at least one article from someone who has done this themself... requires tooling not normally found in the domestic garage :-)In order to get your car back in tip top condition do you know what is required. Is it a rebuild/new engine? Will this alone solve all the troubles or do you have other issues with the car.
Jaguar have been known to refuse to help, first salvo and all that, but keep up the pressure. They in the end may meet you half way with a new engine, or you pay the labour and they pay the parts. But hopefully a proposition of a court case will give Stratstones the shove they need. In the interim, good luck.
I know Racing Green Cars can do a rebuild and turn the standard 4L spec engine into a 4.2. I might be wrong, but I though the people you've already been talking too were another company that had been mentioned.
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