DSG - Love/Hate? Marmite?
Discussion
I'm seriously considering a DSG car next.
I currently drive a Honda S2000 and LOVE the short throw gear change, one of THE best manual boxes I've driven.
But I fancy a change next and the DSG is something that appeals.
Now I've driven auto boxes before and found them uninvolving, so is the DSG better?
I presume you can use either full auto for lazy mornings or switch to Flappy Paddle for thrashing fun?
Anyone got any thoughts?
I currently drive a Honda S2000 and LOVE the short throw gear change, one of THE best manual boxes I've driven.
But I fancy a change next and the DSG is something that appeals.
Now I've driven auto boxes before and found them uninvolving, so is the DSG better?
I presume you can use either full auto for lazy mornings or switch to Flappy Paddle for thrashing fun?
Anyone got any thoughts?
I test drove a manuel and DSG on a 3.2TT.
The DSG is superb, faster to 60, more economical and lower tax bracket too, but i didnt order one.
The thing is, after you get over the excitment of playstation style changing gear with flappy paddels, you realise it is just an automatic. For example it will always change down gear if you dont, so why bother doing it yourself, it will also change up, regardless of the setting, if you rev too far.
Me, I love changing gear, even if i am more inefficient, to me its all part of the driving experiance, but many love it, so I reckon marmite is spot on.
The DSG is superb, faster to 60, more economical and lower tax bracket too, but i didnt order one.
The thing is, after you get over the excitment of playstation style changing gear with flappy paddels, you realise it is just an automatic. For example it will always change down gear if you dont, so why bother doing it yourself, it will also change up, regardless of the setting, if you rev too far.
Me, I love changing gear, even if i am more inefficient, to me its all part of the driving experiance, but many love it, so I reckon marmite is spot on.
CocoPops said:
Thats my thinking Mr Worm.
I love being in control of what gear, when to change etc.
I thought the DSG would be the best of both worlds?
I have a DSG GTI, the gearbox is awesome and definitely worth having. You can drive it in full auto if you want, but when you want to really drive - put it into manual and away you go ! I love being in control of what gear, when to change etc.
I thought the DSG would be the best of both worlds?
satans worm said:
The thing is, after you get over the excitment of playstation style changing gear with flappy paddels, you realise it is just an automatic. For example it will always change down gear if you dont, so why bother doing it yourself, it will also change up, regardless of the setting, if you rev too far.
so it does not have a sports mode or similar that will not change up or down unless you do it (or it is going to stall/bang off the rev limiter)?satans worm said:
I test drove a manuel and DSG on a 3.2TT.
The DSG is superb, faster to 60, more economical and lower tax bracket too, but i didnt order one.
The thing is, after you get over the excitment of playstation style changing gear with flappy paddels, you realise it is just an automatic. For example it will always change down gear if you dont, so why bother doing it yourself, it will also change up, regardless of the setting, if you rev too far.
Me, I love changing gear, even if i am more inefficient, to me its all part of the driving experiance, but many love it, so I reckon marmite is spot on.
I had a markV golf r32, and i think this appraisal is spot on.The r32 is a great little car, but i sold mine after 6mths. The DSG is superb, faster to 60, more economical and lower tax bracket too, but i didnt order one.
The thing is, after you get over the excitment of playstation style changing gear with flappy paddels, you realise it is just an automatic. For example it will always change down gear if you dont, so why bother doing it yourself, it will also change up, regardless of the setting, if you rev too far.
Me, I love changing gear, even if i am more inefficient, to me its all part of the driving experiance, but many love it, so I reckon marmite is spot on.
However, i would add that if i were going for a car with this type of transmition, it would be the DSG hands down. The merc tiptronic type thing is inferioir and the bmw "dsg" is not competition, as it's not even a proper auto in auto mode. THe dsg has the best of all worlds: auto is auto, sport is excellent (but for me took driver "involvement" away, and the manual with the paddles is amazing, and holds in the gear till u decide to chg, or u hit the limiter. Prob is,with the r32 at least, u hit the limiter v quickly, so in practise its not so "manual" afterall.
I thought the DSG was terrible. Sold my A3 after 6 months of torture, having specced it from reading all the great reviews about it.
1) You can never have full manual control - even selecting sport and then engaging the paddles to take over does not leave you with manual control. After about 30secs, it starts to do the gear changing again. Bugged me to tears and caused a few nasty moments. Why, oh why?!
2) Horribly flawed as an auto - the car always seems a second behind what you wanted. Even using a slow take-off to allow the clutch to engage, I found you would then press the acclerator for some punch and nothing would happen. Then you push a bit harder due to the proximity of bearing down traffic and suddenly the car panics and gives you the whole lot in a rush when half of that would have done, one second earlier.
If you have ever tried to hover a helicopter, you'll know exactly what I mean.
I think the very nature of a turbo engine didn't help it's atrocious decision making, but frankly I thought the whole thing was so underdeveloped I was shocked it was signed off and on sale. Horrible.
1) You can never have full manual control - even selecting sport and then engaging the paddles to take over does not leave you with manual control. After about 30secs, it starts to do the gear changing again. Bugged me to tears and caused a few nasty moments. Why, oh why?!
2) Horribly flawed as an auto - the car always seems a second behind what you wanted. Even using a slow take-off to allow the clutch to engage, I found you would then press the acclerator for some punch and nothing would happen. Then you push a bit harder due to the proximity of bearing down traffic and suddenly the car panics and gives you the whole lot in a rush when half of that would have done, one second earlier.
If you have ever tried to hover a helicopter, you'll know exactly what I mean.
I think the very nature of a turbo engine didn't help it's atrocious decision making, but frankly I thought the whole thing was so underdeveloped I was shocked it was signed off and on sale. Horrible.
daytona600 said:
1) You can never have full manual control - even selecting sport and then engaging the paddles to take over does not leave you with manual control. After about 30secs, it starts to do the gear changing again. Bugged me to tears and caused a few nasty moments. Why, oh why?!
It only reverts back to auto after 30 seconds if you leave the lever in D or S, move the lever across to the manual position and it will only self-upshift when you hit the limiter on accelaration or downshift if you go too slow for the gear or stop when it selects 1st.As for not having full control, the computer only 'takes over' if you try to over-rev, excessively labour the engine or try to start pull away not in 1st gear - sure you can't select 2nd gear at 120mph but why would you want to?
To me the only downside is the clutch grabbiness when pulling away from standstill and some of that is due to the sensitive throttle (on 3.2l) otherwise it is the best of both worlds IMO.
I like Marmite too.......
Edited by catso on Friday 2nd November 18:36
GTi driver here - agree with the general gist of the above - its a good auto box, not a clever manual. With the best will in the world, you will end up using it in auto mode 97% if the time. It is actually only a great auto when out on the open road and pushing on. Around town it can be a bit jerky and will sometimes catch you out with its decisions. It isn't the smoothest but it only really annoys me when it changes down to first way before I would do in a manual.
I test drove a Golf GTI MKV with DSG and a Golf GT TDI 140BHP with DSG both left me very much against DSG and wondering what the fuss was about it just didn't suit the Golf IMHO. Fast Forward a couple of years and i've just got a Passat 170BHP TDI with DSG and it really suits the car and engine prefectly it just works. I am therefore in the love it now camp for DSG having been in the it's not quite right in a Golf. Probably because the GTI is a hot hatch and the manual adds to the experience, haven't got a reason on the TDI it just didn't feel right.
Earlier this year I test drove a manual MK5 GTI and a DSG R32, one after the other, in that order.
The GTI really is a fantastic all round good egg. I gelled with it immediately and enjoyed every one of the 30 minutes. I suppose my only complaint was a lack of urge past 4000rpm due to the miniscule turbo.
Jumped into the R32 and I thought the GTI was smooth, the R32 is creamy.....and then it all went wrong. The throttle mapping is truly dreadful. It opens far too wide for such a small pedal movement. VW need to map it to a more user friendly linear fashion like a good old fashioned cable.
Jerky set offs aside, full bore acceleration through the gears is brilliant and being a proper manual gearbox with automated clutches, you get none of the power sap of a traditional slush box, or the see sawing engine note.....just a crisp, Bwaaaaaah, bwaaaaaah, bwaaaaah. Totally addictive.
After 20 mins it felt a bit Gran Turismo and I longed for the tactility of a stick shift again, and the rewarding feel of pulling off a really sweet manual change.
The DSG is best left in manual imo. The Auto shuffling of the gears can be a pain, like dropping a gear too low when overtaking a lorry and changing up too early half way past it too.
Mechanically brilliant, but the software needs more work.
The GTI really is a fantastic all round good egg. I gelled with it immediately and enjoyed every one of the 30 minutes. I suppose my only complaint was a lack of urge past 4000rpm due to the miniscule turbo.
Jumped into the R32 and I thought the GTI was smooth, the R32 is creamy.....and then it all went wrong. The throttle mapping is truly dreadful. It opens far too wide for such a small pedal movement. VW need to map it to a more user friendly linear fashion like a good old fashioned cable.
Jerky set offs aside, full bore acceleration through the gears is brilliant and being a proper manual gearbox with automated clutches, you get none of the power sap of a traditional slush box, or the see sawing engine note.....just a crisp, Bwaaaaaah, bwaaaaaah, bwaaaaah. Totally addictive.
After 20 mins it felt a bit Gran Turismo and I longed for the tactility of a stick shift again, and the rewarding feel of pulling off a really sweet manual change.
The DSG is best left in manual imo. The Auto shuffling of the gears can be a pain, like dropping a gear too low when overtaking a lorry and changing up too early half way past it too.
Mechanically brilliant, but the software needs more work.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
The DSG is best left in manual imo. The Auto shuffling of the gears can be a pain, like dropping a gear too low when overtaking a lorry and changing up too early half way past it too.
Doesn't change up too early if your foot's to the floor 
DSG takes a little getting used to but once you know it there are no surprises.catso said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
The DSG is best left in manual imo. The Auto shuffling of the gears can be a pain, like dropping a gear too low when overtaking a lorry and changing up too early half way past it too.
Doesn't change up too early if your foot's to the floor DSG takes a little getting used to but once you know it there are no surprises.You have to weigh up the pros & conns. It is great 98% of the time. A manual is not so great when in traffic, which is quiet a lot of the time.
Paul.B
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