Discussion
I guess the best way would be to go and check a few out..
I don't know what sort of interior they come with either.
I do know a good alternative to consider would be an audi coupe, they come in varying models, i.e. 2.0 8v, 2.0 16v, 2.2, 2.3 10v, 2.3 20 valve, 2.6 12 valve, 2.8 12 valve.
I don't know what sort of interior they come with either.
I do know a good alternative to consider would be an audi coupe, they come in varying models, i.e. 2.0 8v, 2.0 16v, 2.2, 2.3 10v, 2.3 20 valve, 2.6 12 valve, 2.8 12 valve.
I drove a few 16vs and the handling/steering/suspension seems sharper than VR6 and I felt more confident throwing the car into bends at what seemed a higher speed than the VR6.
Gearing is quite short (eg 50 in 2nd), so you can easily make the most of the engine.
No interior or exterior differences to the VR6 that I can recall, except the VR6 has slightly wider wheels and tyres.
G60s are priced mid-way between 16v and VR6 and well worth a look.
The 16v model is a great car, but the VR6 is better.
Gearing is quite short (eg 50 in 2nd), so you can easily make the most of the engine.
No interior or exterior differences to the VR6 that I can recall, except the VR6 has slightly wider wheels and tyres.
G60s are priced mid-way between 16v and VR6 and well worth a look.
The 16v model is a great car, but the VR6 is better.
My friend had a 16V and he absolutely adores my VR6 and says that it is so much better than his 16V. Mind you his was a shed and had scary brakes or lack of 
Seriously though, the best thing to do is to go and have a test drive. The VR6 will no doubt be a great deal more to insure, especially if you are a young lad. The VR6 engine is a big old lump to have over the front axle so you have to get your speed right on the twisties and not brake where you shouldn't. It might be worth considering the G60. I've never driven or riden in one so cannot comment. Most people warn you about the supercharger but if you keep it maintained well I don't see why it would be a real concern.
Leather on standard and Recaro Sport Steats are an optional extra on the 16V.
Seriously though, the best thing to do is to go and have a test drive. The VR6 will no doubt be a great deal more to insure, especially if you are a young lad. The VR6 engine is a big old lump to have over the front axle so you have to get your speed right on the twisties and not brake where you shouldn't. It might be worth considering the G60. I've never driven or riden in one so cannot comment. Most people warn you about the supercharger but if you keep it maintained well I don't see why it would be a real concern.Leather on standard and Recaro Sport Steats are an optional extra on the 16V.
I had a G60 that i bought with 120 thuo on, it was the best car i have had to date. I had no problems with the charger at all i sold the car when it had 160,000 on it purely as i got an E39 bmw. looking back i should have kept it without doubt, as an all rounder it was the business and handling wise superb. I used to get goodyear eagle f1s for it for around 50 each fitted, probably longer lasting tyres around but they had good grip and reasonable life so just an example, not if you ve got an MGF!
All other components are very reasonabley priced, all i fitted were new pads and discs, air filter, oil change from local garage at £45.00, cheaper than you can buy the oil and the filter plus do it yourself!.
You can get a procedure were you press the trip computer button at the end of the stalk and switch the ignition on and off, cant remember correctly but you should be able to find it easily on the net, this tells you the amount of pressure the charger is giving at idle and you can relate this number to a table and it tells you whats worn or what needs to be replaced. I done this on mine an it was at the high end of the pressure scale therefore ok. I wouldnt worry about the charger if its been given regular oil changes.
Driving wise its very torquey as you would expect, low down grunt and plenty for overtaking in fifth. I used to drive 100 miles to glasgow every week sometimes twice and it was sound and capable. Around the country roads for a front wheel drive car it was excellent as you dont have to thrash it.
i cuoldnt reccomend the G60 enough, having never driven the VR6 i couldnt comment.Fuel consumption may be different, the G60 was pretty freindly in this area.
If i could go back a couple of years i wouldnt have bought my E39, i would have stuck with the Corrado, perhaps got it resprayed, and kept it!!
All other components are very reasonabley priced, all i fitted were new pads and discs, air filter, oil change from local garage at £45.00, cheaper than you can buy the oil and the filter plus do it yourself!.
You can get a procedure were you press the trip computer button at the end of the stalk and switch the ignition on and off, cant remember correctly but you should be able to find it easily on the net, this tells you the amount of pressure the charger is giving at idle and you can relate this number to a table and it tells you whats worn or what needs to be replaced. I done this on mine an it was at the high end of the pressure scale therefore ok. I wouldnt worry about the charger if its been given regular oil changes.
Driving wise its very torquey as you would expect, low down grunt and plenty for overtaking in fifth. I used to drive 100 miles to glasgow every week sometimes twice and it was sound and capable. Around the country roads for a front wheel drive car it was excellent as you dont have to thrash it.
i cuoldnt reccomend the G60 enough, having never driven the VR6 i couldnt comment.Fuel consumption may be different, the G60 was pretty freindly in this area.
If i could go back a couple of years i wouldnt have bought my E39, i would have stuck with the Corrado, perhaps got it resprayed, and kept it!!
2.0 16v weigh 1175kg
2.9 VR6 weighs 1210kg
according to Parkers. Mind you, they also state figures for a 2.0 V8, so not sure how accurate!
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?m...
2.9 VR6 weighs 1210kg
according to Parkers. Mind you, they also state figures for a 2.0 V8, so not sure how accurate!
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?m...
hang on a 16v is NOT a slow car and will certainly make over 60MPH in 2nd. i can only assume the guy who sad they cant hasnt driven one in anger before.
a little detail about the 16v is that depending on the year some are 1.8L like a mk2 golf gti and others are 2.0L and have the same engine as found in passats of a similar era.
The 1.8 can be tuned to a good 160 ish with little more than a exhaust air filter and a good set up on a rolling road- Stealth racing for example do a mod to the Warm up reg and that sees good fueling increases an power delivery.
the 2.0 is constrained by emmissions targets. is you get a pre 1993 ditch the CAT an fit a straight through system. apply the same mods as a 1.8. then find yourself a 1.8 KR inlet CAM and fit that as it is much higher lift than a 9a standard cam, a decent port an polish and a 2.0 can run 180hp.
I ran a corrado 9a engine with a 1.8 head an could comfortably get 0-60 down to sub 7 seconds and had a indicated 140mph on the clocks which is standard VR6 teritory. on the open road inless you want to race well over 100MPH there isnt as much in a 16v v VR6 as you would think and also in a 16v you are using a hell of a lot less fuel but you miss out on the legendry VR6 howl !!!!
The downside to a 16v is the perceived lack of low down torque you hear people talking about, well that is more than made up for at 4k revs when it enters the power band an you can rev all the way to 7300ish
,
also a 16v is easy to work on and cheap to maintain compared to a G60 or VR6, a g60 charger rebuild is circa 400-600quid and a VR6 timing chain change can set you back 400quid +
suggest you go and drive a few and try an decide.
a little detail about the 16v is that depending on the year some are 1.8L like a mk2 golf gti and others are 2.0L and have the same engine as found in passats of a similar era.
The 1.8 can be tuned to a good 160 ish with little more than a exhaust air filter and a good set up on a rolling road- Stealth racing for example do a mod to the Warm up reg and that sees good fueling increases an power delivery.
the 2.0 is constrained by emmissions targets. is you get a pre 1993 ditch the CAT an fit a straight through system. apply the same mods as a 1.8. then find yourself a 1.8 KR inlet CAM and fit that as it is much higher lift than a 9a standard cam, a decent port an polish and a 2.0 can run 180hp.
I ran a corrado 9a engine with a 1.8 head an could comfortably get 0-60 down to sub 7 seconds and had a indicated 140mph on the clocks which is standard VR6 teritory. on the open road inless you want to race well over 100MPH there isnt as much in a 16v v VR6 as you would think and also in a 16v you are using a hell of a lot less fuel but you miss out on the legendry VR6 howl !!!!
The downside to a 16v is the perceived lack of low down torque you hear people talking about, well that is more than made up for at 4k revs when it enters the power band an you can rev all the way to 7300ish
, also a 16v is easy to work on and cheap to maintain compared to a G60 or VR6, a g60 charger rebuild is circa 400-600quid and a VR6 timing chain change can set you back 400quid +
suggest you go and drive a few and try an decide.
Edited by aka_kerrly on Wednesday 13th February 14:24
If its costs 400-600 quid to recon a g-charger, then you now have a reconditioned G60 with 160+ bhp thats going to be reliable in its designed state of tune.
How much is it going to cost to get an exhaust/air filter mod/ and rolling road to take a 16V to an alleged 160hp and have the reliabilty behind a now modded engine, which will also hike the insurance up? and you ve still got a 16V
A standard designed well looked after reliable G60 is easier to sell and more desirable, rather than a car thats been modified.
How much is it going to cost to get an exhaust/air filter mod/ and rolling road to take a 16V to an alleged 160hp and have the reliabilty behind a now modded engine, which will also hike the insurance up? and you ve still got a 16V
A standard designed well looked after reliable G60 is easier to sell and more desirable, rather than a car thats been modified.
Edited by sam919 on Wednesday 13th February 16:14
oh no, are you anti modifying a car. one of these you cant gain a few horse power from these mods. I have and i know others who have had standard 1.8 KR 16v that have in excess of 150hp so adding a 30quid filter and 200quid exhaust and seeing over 160 is perfectly reasonable. There are plenty of 16v around that are close to 200hp and are used as track cars with proven reliabilty.
Buying a 16v gives you are far better choice too. There arent as many G60s around and they are older than most 2.0 16v. I belive G60 production ended in 91. I am not suggesting a G60 is all that bad, the whine of a charger and power delivery is very good but for someone on a budget a G60 is not a good option compared to a 16v. you certainly cannot treat a G60 hard and get away with it, they do not like to be reved high and require considerably more maintenance than a 16v thats all.
Before you accuse me of not knowing what im on about yes i have experienced a g60 and have had a selection of 1.8 an 2.0 16v and for me a 16v handles as much abuse as ytou can give it
Buying a 16v gives you are far better choice too. There arent as many G60s around and they are older than most 2.0 16v. I belive G60 production ended in 91. I am not suggesting a G60 is all that bad, the whine of a charger and power delivery is very good but for someone on a budget a G60 is not a good option compared to a 16v. you certainly cannot treat a G60 hard and get away with it, they do not like to be reved high and require considerably more maintenance than a 16v thats all.
Before you accuse me of not knowing what im on about yes i have experienced a g60 and have had a selection of 1.8 an 2.0 16v and for me a 16v handles as much abuse as ytou can give it
All good and well, but if you're going into modifying, a forced induction version will always give you more bang for the buck. A genuine 200 horses from an N/A engine that's supposed to give 139(?) is not ever going to come cheaply - not if it's to be driveable and reliable anyway.
Whichever route you take, it'll always be a case of 'fast, reliable, cheap - pick any two'...
[edited to say that 10 bhp+ with just an air filter and exhaust aren't going to happen on a 2l N/A motor unless the OE items were particularly restrictive].
Whichever route you take, it'll always be a case of 'fast, reliable, cheap - pick any two'...
[edited to say that 10 bhp+ with just an air filter and exhaust aren't going to happen on a 2l N/A motor unless the OE items were particularly restrictive].
Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 13th February 17:11
I wouldnt accuse anyone of not knowing what there on about as everyones opinion is based on there own experience.
My G60 was thrashed and still maintined its reliabilty, probably the same as a 16v, dont know never had one.
Modifying any car comes with cost and element of doubt behind reliabilty over a standard car.
I have an R400 which i race, with 1800 k-series, forged pistons, steel crank, lightened flywheel etc producing 230bhp and potentially costing thousands if it goes pop.
If i was on a budget i would keep things standard 16V or G60
My G60 was thrashed and still maintined its reliabilty, probably the same as a 16v, dont know never had one.
Modifying any car comes with cost and element of doubt behind reliabilty over a standard car.
I have an R400 which i race, with 1800 k-series, forged pistons, steel crank, lightened flywheel etc producing 230bhp and potentially costing thousands if it goes pop.
If i was on a budget i would keep things standard 16V or G60
i didnt mean to sound like i am having a dig at you "SAM" clearly if you have a 1.8K series running 230BHP you know about engine tuning, you will then also know that represents a 70hp gain over standard and you havent used FI (assuming you started with the 160hp VVC engine)
VW engineers are rather conservative when it comes to power figures... most 1.8 16valve engines manage 150-155 just by having a 100 thousand miles on them and the timing set to 6-8* BTDC instead of factory settings. Similarly with the exhaust 16v feature a huge centre silencer and a suitcase sized silencer as standard. fitting a 2.5inch bore straight through centre makes a noticible difference in midrange and above power delivery. I have witnessed 3 16v all with just exhaust and filter modifications on the rollers producing 150-160 hp. similarly i have seen totally standard VR6s make 190hp when standard they are meant to be 172.
The 2.0 9A engine fitted to corrados was hampered further by having a CAT fitted to it and in order to get emmisions within certain levels the Cam profile was also made a lot milder giving slightly more torque over a wider band, therefore swapping to the KR 1.8 cam which is considerably more aggressive allows you to make more of the torque from 2k rpm until you hit 4K rpm and the second cam really starts to make a difference and also allows a higher rev limit to be used.
The main reason i rather stick to 16v over a G60 is for the cost. Destroy a 16v engine an pick up another from a scrappy, If your G60 lets go not only is the charger in need of replacement but it can take the engine to - a 8v G60 bottom end is NOT the same as a 8v GTI engine. Not to say i dont believe you when you say your g60 has taken abuse. A relative of mine has a corrado G60 on 80k on its original charger and is totally standard and goes very well but i have read rather a few horror stories of G60s letting go without warning and on apparently very well maintained cars.
Yes i know it is possible to run 230HP or more from a G60 by using a 60mm or smaller pulley and a heavily developed head and bottom end but lets consider the OP question. HE has already stated he cannot afford to run a VR6, i always argue a G60 is not going to be much better on fuel or maintanance than a VR and similarly and thats before you begin modifying it. Depending on ADZ budget i would still say i think a late model 16v will be a sounder bet than a early G60.
Also ADZ, i believe you are gloucester based, certianly the name rings a bell from E38 is that right?
ps since it hasnt already been said. early corrados have grey cloth seats grey dash detailing and grey carpets. later models have black carpets and dash detailing and black seats.
VW engineers are rather conservative when it comes to power figures... most 1.8 16valve engines manage 150-155 just by having a 100 thousand miles on them and the timing set to 6-8* BTDC instead of factory settings. Similarly with the exhaust 16v feature a huge centre silencer and a suitcase sized silencer as standard. fitting a 2.5inch bore straight through centre makes a noticible difference in midrange and above power delivery. I have witnessed 3 16v all with just exhaust and filter modifications on the rollers producing 150-160 hp. similarly i have seen totally standard VR6s make 190hp when standard they are meant to be 172.
The 2.0 9A engine fitted to corrados was hampered further by having a CAT fitted to it and in order to get emmisions within certain levels the Cam profile was also made a lot milder giving slightly more torque over a wider band, therefore swapping to the KR 1.8 cam which is considerably more aggressive allows you to make more of the torque from 2k rpm until you hit 4K rpm and the second cam really starts to make a difference and also allows a higher rev limit to be used.
The main reason i rather stick to 16v over a G60 is for the cost. Destroy a 16v engine an pick up another from a scrappy, If your G60 lets go not only is the charger in need of replacement but it can take the engine to - a 8v G60 bottom end is NOT the same as a 8v GTI engine. Not to say i dont believe you when you say your g60 has taken abuse. A relative of mine has a corrado G60 on 80k on its original charger and is totally standard and goes very well but i have read rather a few horror stories of G60s letting go without warning and on apparently very well maintained cars.
Yes i know it is possible to run 230HP or more from a G60 by using a 60mm or smaller pulley and a heavily developed head and bottom end but lets consider the OP question. HE has already stated he cannot afford to run a VR6, i always argue a G60 is not going to be much better on fuel or maintanance than a VR and similarly and thats before you begin modifying it. Depending on ADZ budget i would still say i think a late model 16v will be a sounder bet than a early G60.
Also ADZ, i believe you are gloucester based, certianly the name rings a bell from E38 is that right?
ps since it hasnt already been said. early corrados have grey cloth seats grey dash detailing and grey carpets. later models have black carpets and dash detailing and black seats.
Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 14th February 16:39
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