"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series
Discussion
e36er said:
Due to the changes in regulations we won't be there, which is a shame.
whilst I have absolutely no interest in changing anything as we loved last year, I think CSCC and the complaining busybodies will see it as an existing rule enforcement rather than a rule change, so there will be no change, just a clarification I guess so some Porsche can finish 8th instead of 10th meanwhile we will loose the fun we had last year with all the close competition.Errr.. what change? I am confused!
Is it the items for the drivers meeting? I hope they change the pit stops to more Roadsports style. Getting in and out really benefits the drivers with large crews, where as solo drivers like me and a few others have to faf around on our own for minutes. Kind of spoils the race because it is effectively over after 20 minutes.
Is it the items for the drivers meeting? I hope they change the pit stops to more Roadsports style. Getting in and out really benefits the drivers with large crews, where as solo drivers like me and a few others have to faf around on our own for minutes. Kind of spoils the race because it is effectively over after 20 minutes.
shim said:
whilst I have absolutely no interest in changing anything as we loved last year, I think CSCC and the complaining busybodies will see it as an existing rule enforcement rather than a rule change, so there will be no change, just a clarification I guess so some Porsche can finish 8th instead of 10th meanwhile we will loose the fun we had last year with all the close competition.
I suspect that the rules will be clarified, not changed, so that it's even clearer that those people who have been bending the rules will have to comply.Well with that rule clarification S54 powered E36 M3's are no longer eligible for Modern Classics or New Millenniums. This is a shame as there as some fantastic racing out there in 2015. I know of 4 cars including mine that are now ruled out, big question is if they all move together somewhere else will then other still eligible BMWs, TVRs and Porsches that had such tight races with them defect and join them?
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.
If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
Edited by andy97 on Thursday 26th November 22:53
andy97 said:
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.
If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
The E36/7 did come with an S54 in 2001+ so I think in theory it could run in NM although I think it will be argued the "body shape" was different.If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
Edited by andy97 on Thursday 26th November 22:53
andy97 said:
S54 engined E36 M3s never were eligible because that model never existed in the range.
If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
Andy - don't think you need to worry about what happened on your watch. Fwiw to my knowledge there were no S54 power BMW E36 M3's in the series in 2014, the changes came from 2015.If they raced before then they should not have done. I wasn't expert enough to know when I was the co-or donator up to end of 2014, but plenty of people were BMW experts.
Cscc has very few rules. It's not unreasonable to expect competitors to comply with the few they do have.
The rules were open to interpretation as they only referred to "same engine type" - my car as discussed already on this thread was one of those which moved to an S54 engine in 2015. I accept not all will believe me but this decision was made for economic reasons not performance reasons and my car now has less power than it did in 2014... all I can say to corroborate this is that if you look back at my historic times on TSL timing you will see my car is no quicker than it was pre 2015.
Anyway, not that this matters.
For the record we were very open with the club about the engine change in 2015. After the end of the season they've considered everything and their decision to clarify the rules for 2016 now leaves my car ineligible, that is their decision and I respect that.
I only lament that there has been some great close racing in the Modern Classics and New Millennium series in 2015 between 8-9 different cars at the front and it will be a shame to no longer be part of that
I have a slightly OT question to put to you guys (Andy especially) but is related to the interpretation of the rules: what's the view on non-standard flush bonnet vents in relation to the silhouette rule? I was considering some venting for my 951 to maximise cooling, similar to these deutch nine vents: http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen...
Yes, no or a grey area?
Yes, no or a grey area?
Richair said:
I have a slightly OT question to put to you guys (Andy especially) but is related to the interpretation of the rules: what's the view on non-standard flush bonnet vents in relation to the silhouette rule? I was considering some venting for my 951 to maximise cooling, similar to these deutch nine vents: http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen...
Yes, no or a grey area?
Rich, I'm no longer the co-ordinator so it's not my call any more; you need to ask at the CSCC office, but in my opinion, they should be ok, but ask!Yes, no or a grey area?
Thanks chaps, I'll get in touch with them to check before I start hacking through any bodywork! I'm only thinking of some fairly minimal vents just to improve flow through the rad and coolers so any aero advantage would be negligible (think Siera Cosworth scale of vents), but I don't want to be accused of cheating.
Our plans for next season have hit a bump. We were hoping to have a monster engine build, but our 5 speed gearbox is the limiting factor. Dog box kits are expensive! It may yet happen this year, but it's more likely to be ready for the following season.
We'll just make do with current power levels and invest in a brake upgrade to make the most of what we have.
It's a shame. I fancied giving the Bimmers and Porkers a bit of a surprise. ;-)
We'll just make do with current power levels and invest in a brake upgrade to make the most of what we have.
It's a shame. I fancied giving the Bimmers and Porkers a bit of a surprise. ;-)
Richair said:
Thanks chaps, I'll get in touch with them to check before I start hacking through any bodywork! I'm only thinking of some fairly minimal vents just to improve flow through the rad and coolers so any aero advantage would be negligible (think Siera Cosworth scale of vents), but I don't want to be accused of cheating.
Don't go there - my 928 has radiator exhaust vent on the bonnet as well as intake vents either side of it. Someone reported me to the Office and was told I have to get rid of all. The exhaust vent has a spoiler lip at the front, which is 10mm raised, while the intakes are also 10mm. I have zero aero advantage, since I am not running a splitter or a flat floor. However, the radiator exhaust allows me to run a 12:1 compression engine consistently at 90C, even allowing for heat soak, and the cold air intake vents allow the engine to run ITBs and make 500bhp. Hence it was all deemed unfair advantage because of the 10mm protrusion. I would be allowed to keep all bonnet openings as long as they are flush with the original bodywork. I can kind of see their point, but frankly, it is getting a bit funny with everything...
Cheburator mk2 said:
Don't go there - my 928 has radiator exhaust vent on the bonnet as well as intake vents either side of it. Someone reported me to the Office and was told I have to get rid of all. The exhaust vent has a spoiler lip at the front, which is 10mm raised, while the intakes are also 10mm. I have zero aero advantage, since I am not running a splitter or a flat floor. However, the radiator exhaust allows me to run a 12:1 compression engine consistently at 90C, even allowing for heat soak, and the cold air intake vents allow the engine to run ITBs and make 500bhp. Hence it was all deemed unfair advantage because of the 10mm protrusion. I would be allowed to keep all bonnet openings as long as they are flush with the original bodywork.
I can kind of see their point, but frankly, it is getting a bit funny with everything...
Interesting... Thanks for this, I was afraid that someone might pick fault with any protrusion if they'd had their nose put out on circuit. I've not spoken with them yet as I'm working on other areas of the car at present, but I will do. I would really like to improve airflow through the coolers and over the turbo though (nothing more than this) just to keep the car reliable. I guess a flush vent (maybe with some recessed fins) would still achieve this, but obviously would not be as effective as louvres and wouldn't look as pretty. It's a bit of a frustrating one if its seen a no-go when Sierra Cosworth's in the same series have them as standard, but rules be rules!I can kind of see their point, but frankly, it is getting a bit funny with everything...
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