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souper said:
Brother has a first floor flat, maisonette. the main fuse keeps blowing on the ground floor flats incomer fuse.
Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.
This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
That sounds very odd.Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.
This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
Does he have his own supply contract with an electricity supplier or is it paid to a landlord who is sub-metering?
No ideas for a name said:
souper said:
Brother has a first floor flat, maisonette. the main fuse keeps blowing on the ground floor flats incomer fuse.
Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.
This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
That sounds very odd.Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.
This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
Does he have his own supply contract with an electricity supplier or is it paid to a landlord who is sub-metering?
He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.
But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.
Edited by souper on Tuesday 14th November 18:45
Sounds like they are treating this as a BNO situation, I assume the cable is therefore coming from a Bemco/Ryefield and a new lateral needs dropped between the two.
They’ve been reversing away from this stuff since the 80’s, shrinking back responsibility to just the incomer to the building.
Joke is, they only accept replacements fully to 7671 when their stuff was never designed to the regs in the first place, so you can’t do like for like.
They’ve been reversing away from this stuff since the 80’s, shrinking back responsibility to just the incomer to the building.
Joke is, they only accept replacements fully to 7671 when their stuff was never designed to the regs in the first place, so you can’t do like for like.
Rough101 said:
Sounds like they are treating this as a BNO situation, I assume the cable is therefore coming from a Bemco/Ryefield and a new lateral needs dropped between the two.
They’ve been reversing away from this stuff since the 80’s, shrinking back responsibility to just the incomer to the building.
Joke is, they only accept replacements fully to 7671 when their stuff was never designed to the regs in the first place, so you can’t do like for like.
Just uploaded a pic as you replied, above.They’ve been reversing away from this stuff since the 80’s, shrinking back responsibility to just the incomer to the building.
Joke is, they only accept replacements fully to 7671 when their stuff was never designed to the regs in the first place, so you can’t do like for like.
I know enough about electrics to be dangerous and I'm aware of those cables that turn to powder or green goo, I think those cable come from the head and maybe there's a 60amp fuse on my brothers board also I'm asking him now, but the question is who owns those cables? DNO or homeowner, where neither are in my brothers flat and has obviously shorted on the metal pipe downstairs feeding to upstairs.
I need to replace a triple-gang dimmer with a triple gang switch. (because LED bulbs + elderly relative who would be hopelessly confused by the slow switching time of varilight-pros)
The only double-width triple-gang switches I can find are 'grid' system like this.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/32595-3-g...
Question: Do these fit into a regular back box? I really don't want to get into replacing that too.
The only double-width triple-gang switches I can find are 'grid' system like this.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/32595-3-g...
Question: Do these fit into a regular back box? I really don't want to get into replacing that too.
miniman said:
Interesting, thanks! Plain white would be ideal, but seems unavailable. Odd that white doesn’t seem to be an option. To your original question, the grid system single switches are pretty shallow so I’d reckon you’d be ok.
You’ll need a grid plate, a face plate and the 3 switches.
I recently binned my Varilight dimmers for LED strips because they never really worked properly so you’re not alone!
You’ll need a grid plate, a face plate and the 3 switches.
I recently binned my Varilight dimmers for LED strips because they never really worked properly so you’re not alone!
souper said:
Yes, he has his own electric supply it's just how it's wired, the flat is rented out so he got a call at 2am and the DNO were the ones who disconnected the riser cables to his flat from flat below. I would assume supply is split after the ground floor incomer, via Henley blocks or similar.
He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.
But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.
"It's complex"He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.
But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.
Edited by souper on Tuesday 14th November 18:45
Technically the sub main feeding the upstairs flat is the responsibility of the leasehold, but the jurisdiction of the DNO ie you can't go messing with it and your replacement has to be approved/specified by them. However the two flats shouldn't be fed by a single 60a service fuse, and as they've been happy to collect two sets of standing charges for the last 50 years, one might say provision of said service is on them. But if it's UKPN you'll be expected to fund a new main to the street to replace their worn out rubbish cable, something they'll see as an opportunity to gouge you several grand for in addition to you paying for and carry out 90% of their work, then they'll send engineers that will try to find something wrong and cancel their job, leaving you with no electricity and a hefty cancellation charge for "wasting their time". On these types of job I have to allow for a babysitting day for the changeover, as they can, will and do try it every time, and it needs someone experienced to call them on their BS to get it done.
Many simply choose option B...
silentbrown said:
I need to replace a triple-gang dimmer with a triple gang switch. (because LED bulbs + elderly relative who would be hopelessly confused by the slow switching time of varilight-pros)
The only double-width triple-gang switches I can find are 'grid' system like this.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/32595-3-g...
Question: Do these fit into a regular back box? I really don't want to get into replacing that too.
As said, you need the grid, face, and switches, but if you can fit a dimmer in the backbox a grid switch shouldnt be an issue.The only double-width triple-gang switches I can find are 'grid' system like this.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/32595-3-g...
Question: Do these fit into a regular back box? I really don't want to get into replacing that too.
Worst case you can het 5mm thick frames to go around the switch to give a bit more room.
Teddy Lop said:
souper said:
Yes, he has his own electric supply it's just how it's wired, the flat is rented out so he got a call at 2am and the DNO were the ones who disconnected the riser cables to his flat from flat below. I would assume supply is split after the ground floor incomer, via Henley blocks or similar.
He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.
But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.
"It's complex"He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.
But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.
Edited by souper on Tuesday 14th November 18:45
Technically the sub main feeding the upstairs flat is the responsibility of the leasehold, but the jurisdiction of the DNO ie you can't go messing with it and your replacement has to be approved/specified by them. However the two flats shouldn't be fed by a single 60a service fuse, and as they've been happy to collect two sets of standing charges for the last 50 years, one might say provision of said service is on them. But if it's UKPN you'll be expected to fund a new main to the street to replace their worn out rubbish cable, something they'll see as an opportunity to gouge you several grand for in addition to you paying for and carry out 90% of their work, then they'll send engineers that will try to find something wrong and cancel their job, leaving you with no electricity and a hefty cancellation charge for "wasting their time". On these types of job I have to allow for a babysitting day for the changeover, as they can, will and do try it every time, and it needs someone experienced to call them on their BS to get it done.
Many simply choose option B...
Option B was chosen & a sparky replaced the cables between the two flats, not without the ground floor flat owner trying to get the sparky to bury & alter the cables in the wall, my brother told sparky to replace as is and was to enable the electrics to be put on in his flat, also an isolator was put in in brothers flat so he can work on his own property without calling DNO to pull Service Fuse.
What a palaver.
Can any experts offer their opinion on this please.
I live in a detached house with an ensuit shower and separate shower room.
Last week I noticed when showering a small tingle in my finger when touching the metal shower hose (I could only feel it where I had a small cut in my finger)
Using a meter I measured 8v ac between the plastic shower tray and hose. There was 0v between the shower hose and the cold & hot water taps or radiator pipework. Also zero between the taps and radiator. There was 8v between the shower tray and taps or radiator.
I then took readings in the other shower room and found 8v between the shower hose and tray or tray to taps or radiator but zero volts between the shower hose and radiator or taps.
The showers are both 240v electric pump, not water heater, that comes from a gch fed cylinder
The showers drain to different (plastic)soil stacks on opposite sides of the house.
I first called a plumber who replicated my measurements and suggested it wasn't the shower units causing the fault, why would they both fail at same time and also didn't seem to be the source.
An Elecrician called in today, he obtained the same reading as above with his no doubt more expensive kit. He opened the consumer unit and checked all the connections were tight. I then turned of the main breaker which resulted in zero volts. We then turned on each circuit one at a time and the 8v reading returned when the upstairs lights and sockets were on.
He suggested updating the board to one with rcbo as at the moment only the sockets and lights are on an rcd circuit. I agreed as the box is quote old and I'd prefer each circuit to be protected.
He said when fitting he would check each circuit for faults in more detail.
Any guess what could be the cause? I should also add only see the voltage when the plastic shower tray is wet.
I live in a detached house with an ensuit shower and separate shower room.
Last week I noticed when showering a small tingle in my finger when touching the metal shower hose (I could only feel it where I had a small cut in my finger)
Using a meter I measured 8v ac between the plastic shower tray and hose. There was 0v between the shower hose and the cold & hot water taps or radiator pipework. Also zero between the taps and radiator. There was 8v between the shower tray and taps or radiator.
I then took readings in the other shower room and found 8v between the shower hose and tray or tray to taps or radiator but zero volts between the shower hose and radiator or taps.
The showers are both 240v electric pump, not water heater, that comes from a gch fed cylinder
The showers drain to different (plastic)soil stacks on opposite sides of the house.
I first called a plumber who replicated my measurements and suggested it wasn't the shower units causing the fault, why would they both fail at same time and also didn't seem to be the source.
An Elecrician called in today, he obtained the same reading as above with his no doubt more expensive kit. He opened the consumer unit and checked all the connections were tight. I then turned of the main breaker which resulted in zero volts. We then turned on each circuit one at a time and the 8v reading returned when the upstairs lights and sockets were on.
He suggested updating the board to one with rcbo as at the moment only the sockets and lights are on an rcd circuit. I agreed as the box is quote old and I'd prefer each circuit to be protected.
He said when fitting he would check each circuit for faults in more detail.
Any guess what could be the cause? I should also add only see the voltage when the plastic shower tray is wet.
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