EVs... no one wants them!

[tamore]

loudlashadjuster said:

1 megawatt, maybe

yes…. 1000 of them. throughout germany.

[Boxster5]

tamore said:

Boxster5 said:

Whilst there he mentioned one of their other sites in Avonmouth Docks - the operators were trialling a Mercedes EV truck which took 17 hours to charge but only capable of 20 mile range. Clearly a long way to go.

sorry. this doesn't ring true at all. unless they were charging it from somebody's pocket power bank via USB.

Just what I was told - don’t know whether it’s true or not (plus the guy worked for CNG Fuels so he’s bound to say that- obviously!)

[otolith]

tamore said:

Boxster5 said:

Whilst there he mentioned one of their other sites in Avonmouth Docks - the operators were trialling a Mercedes EV truck which took 17 hours to charge but only capable of 20 mile range. Clearly a long way to go.

sorry. this doesn't ring true at all. unless they were charging it from somebody's pocket power bank via USB.

I think perhaps they accidentally bought a lead-acid powered milk float.

[GT9]

otolith said:

I think perhaps they accidentally bought a lead-acid powered milk float.

Careful, ban hammer fell on last poster who mentioned that word.
TBF, you'd probably need to post it another 374 times to catch up with him.

[Mikehig]

GT9 said:

To be clear, my point is that carbon footprint of e-fuel has a high entry point, either because the fuel is reconstituted natural gas (i.e. blue or grey hydrogen) combined with CO2 of questionable source, or the manufacturing and installation footprint of the very substantial new infrastructure required to produce it truly renewably has its own high footprint (on a per litre basis).
The timeline to get to low carbon e-fuel is too long and too expensive to save the majority of existing ICEs.
If we are talking a handful of TVRs, petrol probably achieves the same carbon footprint per litre for the foreseeable future.
in which case, what exactly is the point other than profiteering?

This article illustrates the "very substantial new infrastructure" for Direct Air Capture:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/1...
The energy consumption must be huge as well - excavating, transporting, crushing and then heating tons of limestone to 1600 deg C
In terms of the energy returned on the energy invested, making fuel using such a process must be hugely negative.

[tamore]

there are a few ideas which would allow the continued use of fossil fuels and/or combustion engines. none of them make any sense from an energy use perspective.

[otolith]

GT9 said:

otolith said:

I think perhaps they accidentally bought a lead-acid powered milk float.

Careful, ban hammer fell on last poster who mentioned that word.
TBF, you'd probably need to post it another 374 times to catch up with him.

They probably weren't using it in the context of something that apparently has worse charging characteristics than one! (8 hours and 60 miles, apparently)

[Mikehig]

tamore said:

loudlashadjuster said:

1 megawatt, maybe

yes…. 1000 of them. throughout germany.

That's a heck of a load!
Is there some sort of davit or mechanical assistance - must be a monster cable?

[RizzoTheRat]

soxboy said:

The Germans are also trialing electrified roads for trucks, seems like a sensible way to do it to me, use the pantograph on the autobahn and then switch to battery for last few miles

[Essarell]

RizzoTheRat said:

soxboy said:

The Germans are also trialing electrified roads for trucks, seems like a sensible way to do it to me, use the pantograph on the autobahn and then switch to battery for last few miles

Seems sensible but energy costs in Germany are pretty high.

[TikTak]

DriveSnowdonia said:

Would hate to think how much that would cost to install across the UK motorway network, plus the huge cost to maintain such infrastructure and the potential for accidents or weather related damage to cause chaos. And how much would the carbon footprint be to manufacture all of that steel - in China of course as the UK is busy dismantling our steel production capacity?

Pretty much what I was going to put. I can see it now.

I'd expect us to come up with some eye watering price like £80bn to complete all the major routes and complete in 20 years.

Fast forward to 2045, the M1 has been totally unusable for 20 years, with only a 100 mile stretch complete. They did manage between Heathrow and Gatwick on the M25 too but also set a record with a traffic jam that lasted 14 days and claimed 26 lives. A good portion of the M6 toll is complete but it's now £102.25 per trip.

Whole thing already cost £170bn too.

[DJMC]

RizzoTheRat said:

soxboy said:

The Germans are also trialing electrified roads for trucks, seems like a sensible way to do it to me, use the pantograph on the autobahn and then switch to battery for last few miles

The Americans first worked on the pantograph idea with the Dodge-M.

[FiF]

TikTak said:

DriveSnowdonia said:

Would hate to think how much that would cost to install across the UK motorway network, plus the huge cost to maintain such infrastructure and the potential for accidents or weather related damage to cause chaos. And how much would the carbon footprint be to manufacture all of that steel - in China of course as the UK is busy dismantling our steel production capacity?

Pretty much what I was going to put. I can see it now.

I'd expect us to come up with some eye watering price like £80bn to complete all the major routes and complete in 20 years.

Fast forward to 2045, the M1 has been totally unusable for 20 years, with only a 100 mile stretch complete. They did manage between Heathrow and Gatwick on the M25 too but also set a record with a traffic jam that lasted 14 days and claimed 26 lives. A good portion of the M6 toll is complete but it's now £102.25 per trip.

Whole thing already cost £170bn too.

Also you're forgetting the years of arguments about cancelling the project part way through but then you're into a sunk costs scenario.

And everything has an opportunity cost attached.

[wyson]

tamore said:

sounds a bit more like it, especially as germany are rolling out 1000 megawatt truck chargers.

1000 megawatts? Christ if they kitted them out with flux capacitors, they might be capable of time travel! It was 1.21 gigawatts wasn't it, so pretty close.

Edited by wyson on Wednesday 22 November 11:22

[anonymous-user]

This’ll most likely generate lots of passive aggression from the usual suspects, hopefully directed towards the mayor of London

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/28/electr...

“ Vehicles with larger batteries are set to pay more due to having a higher carbon footprint during their construction, taking up more space and causing more wear and tear to the road.”

At last, some sense. Tax these monsters off the road.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 28th November 17:40

[TTmonkey]

We really don’t need massive batteries. We need faster charging. So I like that idea.

[Earthdweller]

https://x.com/gregkable/status/1729421585424027906...

Germany proposes new law to cap charger speeds at times of peak demand

The German government has proposed an "electricity rationalisation" act for 2024. It would require charger operators to cap charging speeds of EVs to "50km (31 miles) in two hours of charging" at times when the electricity network is overloaded.

[anonymous-user]

TTmonkey said:

We really don’t need massive batteries. We need faster charging. So I like that idea.

Or smaller cars, more appropriate for an urban environment. https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/t...

[otolith]

wormus said:

This’ll most likely generate lots of passive aggression from the usual suspects, hopefully directed towards the mayor of London

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/28/electr...

“ Vehicles with larger batteries are set to pay more due to having a higher carbon footprint during their construction, taking up more space and causing more wear and tear to the road.”

At last, some sense. Tax these monsters off the road.

Article seems a bit thin on what the charges for ICEs will be? Telegraph FUDding about EVs again?

[Penny Whistle]

Earthdweller said:

https://x.com/gregkable/status/1729421585424027906...

Germany proposes new law to cap charger speeds at times of peak demand

The German government has proposed an "electricity rationalisation" act for 2024. It would require charger operators to cap charging speeds of EVs to "50km (31 miles) in two hours of charging" at times when the electricity network is overloaded.

That's dumb. How can the charger know how many km/kWh the plugged-in car will do ? If anything, the proposal would simply be to cap the charge rate at 5kW.