Moto GP Thread 2023
Discussion
Track conditions changed between Saturday and Sunday too (temperature, and more rubber down). Plus the GP is obviously longer than the Sprint so requires a different approach. All of that could have made the difference, maybe with a bit of a duff tyre as well.
The Sprints definitely favour Martin's attacking style over Bagnaia. I do wonder how the season would have shaped up without them.
The Sprints definitely favour Martin's attacking style over Bagnaia. I do wonder how the season would have shaped up without them.
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
Ref Moto3, Masia might have looked like someone nicked his dog but Veijer's win was akin to when Danny Kent mugged Sandro Cortese for the win he needed to bring Red Bull KTM the title. If I was Sasaki I would not be a happy camper.
From after Malaysia...pisspoor by both Leopard riders to be honest. Think a long lap would have been appropriate for Masia after the second one. Veijer going to Sasaki at the first corner after the last lap rightly got short shrift.Just reflecting .....
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
Johno said:
Just reflecting .....
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
I was thinking about this too. More bikes from more manufacturers helps them get data, try parts etc with the hope of eventually being competitive again. I don't see any other manufacturer competing until the change of rules comes into effect. It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
But on the other hand people have always said they didnt know if 'X' was the best rider or if hes on a better bike etc. 8 Ducatis on the grid goes some way to level it some what. But for the record I would much prefer it to be multiple manufacturers competing.
Tam_Mullen said:
I was thinking about this too. More bikes from more manufacturers helps them get data, try parts etc with the hope of eventually being competitive again. I don't see any other manufacturer competing until the change of rules comes into effect.
But on the other hand people have always said they didnt know if 'X' was the best rider or if hes on a better bike etc. 8 Ducatis on the grid goes some way to level it some what. But for the record I would much prefer it to be multiple manufacturers competing.
It suggests that the Ducati is easier to get on with too - Alex Marquez came from being beaten up by the Honda to being relatively competitive quite quickly on the Gresini Ducati. I think that's ultimately what got Digi the sack, he'd been on it a year already and was getting the run around by someone who had less experience on the bike. It also suggests Alex Marquez is better than a lot of people consider too...But on the other hand people have always said they didnt know if 'X' was the best rider or if hes on a better bike etc. 8 Ducatis on the grid goes some way to level it some what. But for the record I would much prefer it to be multiple manufacturers competing.
I do wonder what KTM and Aprilia get out of their four bikes on the grid through - usually Brad Binder and Aleix Espagaro are at the sharper end with their other riders well back. Raul Fernandez hasn't done much and Augusto Fernandez is arguably lucky Pol Espagaro smashed himself into retirement as he's not shown much position improvement over the year. Yamaha have suffered from the disdain they've treated their satellite teams with and as such nobody wants their bike now.
Johno said:
Just reflecting .....
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
Absolutely. All the moaning about the 'Ducati Cup'. Imagine the alternative, or if they had not let the satellite teams race the factory team. It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
On the flip side, if Ducati hadn't had so many bikes over the past few years, it might not have become so dominant with the massive data advantage. The Japanese teams only have themselves to blame for that I think.
Zarco said:
Absolutely. All the moaning about the 'Ducati Cup'. Imagine the alternative, or if they had not let the satellite teams race the factory team.
On the flip side, if Ducati hadn't had so many bikes over the past few years, it might not have become so dominant with the massive data advantage. The Japanese teams only have themselves to blame for that I think.
Agree but it's taken a while for a lot of the other Ducati riders to come good. Now they have I don't care too much about the marque as long as there's some racing going on. On the flip side, if Ducati hadn't had so many bikes over the past few years, it might not have become so dominant with the massive data advantage. The Japanese teams only have themselves to blame for that I think.
Johno said:
Just reflecting .....
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
The Gresini and VR46 bikes have added colour and sparkle to the second half of the year, but don't forget how predictably dull the first half of the season was. Locking out the front two rows locks out the podium except for the odd surprises from Brad or Aleix. The monopoly on data acquisition isn't good for the sport. It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
I'm surprised KTM haven't put up more of a challenge for the past few rounds, with their rate of development I was expecting them to be almost overhauling Ducati. Perhaps they would benefit from having another top rider or two on their bikes
With two free grid slots available I'd like to see them offered to Yamaha for the next two seasons, and if they don't want them let anyone who does use them, except Ducati.
Just got back from Qatar yesterday after my first time ever at a MotoGP event. Have always wanted to watch a race at Lusail and I wasn't disappointed with how the weekend unfolded, great for the neutrals when watching the drama unfolding. Flew out Thursday, back Monday for £500 direct/return!
Tempted to rewatch the race again and enjoy another perspective from different commentators.
Se7enheaven said:
Finally got around to watching the Moto 3 race from Qatar. Very surprised that Masia went unpunished, and a shame to round off the title in such a way. Agree that the stewards need to have a good look at some of their decisions from this season as overall it’s been pretty piss poor.
The ongoing issue with the stewards is that they simply have no idea what they're doing and therefore there is zero consistency across the course of a season.Every time there's an incident they quickly put a message up saying "The incident is under investigation" but you just know that they are like ah f
k what did we do for this type of incident last time? Frantically look at old footage/previous notes and then make a call later in the day. More often than not it's a completely random one like Aleix's penalty from the weekend - what part of their arse did they pull 6 grid places out from? The lack of consistency is a joke and their leniency towards Spanish riders is quite remarkable. I used to work for a Spanish company and the bias and favouritism towards their own is very common, no different at Dorna. The CEO, Carmelo Ezpeleta, has even appointed his Nephew as the safety officer in the stewards panel, nepotism at its finest.I think it was one of the MotoGP podcasts, maybe The Race, that suggested they actually get someone with a legal background on the panel. Like sure, have an ex racer or two, but having all ex racers + the CEO's favourite Nephew, and no-one who has actually come from a background of being able to apply penalties in a consistent, impartial manner is just a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately it has been horrendous for the past few years as well as this year, and won't change any time soon.
beambeam1 said:
Just got back from Qatar yesterday after my first time ever at a MotoGP event. Have always wanted to watch a race at Lusail and I wasn't disappointed with how the weekend unfolded, great for the neutrals when watching the drama unfolding. Flew out Thursday, back Monday for £500 direct/return!
Tempted to rewatch the race again and enjoy another perspective from different commentators.
We were in Asia on holiday last week and took in the Sepang race , which we have done before when living out there , but it’s one I’m prepared to travel for as everything about it is excellent even if the racing this time around in GP was not the most stimulating. The TV never does the speed and skill of the riders justice.
We flew home via Doha ,and a lot of the various team members were on our flight. I’d have loved to have had the time and money to have stayed for the Qatar round on the way home .
JRC1 said:
I think it was one of the MotoGP podcasts, maybe The Race, that suggested they actually get someone with a legal background on the panel. Like sure, have an ex racer or two, but having all ex racers + the CEO's favourite Nephew, and no-one who has actually come from a background of being able to apply penalties in a consistent, impartial manner is just a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately it has been horrendous for the past few years as well as this year, and won't change any time soon.
You'd think Freddie Spencer would have had this straightened out by now. I wonder if what you have mentioned is to do with Spencer as I believe it was around 2019 when he became Chairman of the Stewards.JRC1 said:
Se7enheaven said:
Finally got around to watching the Moto 3 race from Qatar. Very surprised that Masia went unpunished, and a shame to round off the title in such a way. Agree that the stewards need to have a good look at some of their decisions from this season as overall it’s been pretty piss poor.
The ongoing issue with the stewards is that they simply have no idea what they're doing and therefore there is zero consistency across the course of a season.Every time there's an incident they quickly put a message up saying "The incident is under investigation" but you just know that they are like ah f
k what did we do for this type of incident last time? Frantically look at old footage/previous notes and then make a call later in the day. More often than not it's a completely random one like Aleix's penalty from the weekend - what part of their arse did they pull 6 grid places out from? The lack of consistency is a joke and their leniency towards Spanish riders is quite remarkable. I used to work for a Spanish company and the bias and favouritism towards their own is very common, no different at Dorna. The CEO, Carmelo Ezpeleta, has even appointed his Nephew as the safety officer in the stewards panel, nepotism at its finest.I think it was one of the MotoGP podcasts, maybe The Race, that suggested they actually get someone with a legal background on the panel. Like sure, have an ex racer or two, but having all ex racers + the CEO's favourite Nephew, and no-one who has actually come from a background of being able to apply penalties in a consistent, impartial manner is just a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately it has been horrendous for the past few years as well as this year, and won't change any time soon.
Lawyers .... shudders. It's s
t now with tyre penalties an hour after races finish. I listened to the Race podcast as well and I agree with the viewpoint of looking at it with the support of legal advice and how it can be improved, but let's not get to F1 levels of idiocy. Just look what happened to Sainz in Las Vegas for a case study of overly restrictive rules sooo tight that interpretation isn't allowed due to lawyers and their interpretations. So decisions are made in deference to the fans and common sense because the rules didn't describe it. There's not the same money in MGP as F1, nor the political might, but it's already rapidly accelerating towards making it as bad from a stewards sense.
I don't know the answer either, but I'd prefer to stick with what we have, it improving over time and getting more consistency and transparency than heading to the lawyers.
Spencer has not got a great reputation as a steward apparently. And when you think of his career, literally breath taking for about 4 years then spent the next ten retiring, making comebacks, quitting after a few races and retiring. i would think Dorna could afford someone a little more current and aware of modern riding as a steward, but i do not know how they choose people or how many there are.
I thought the entire leopard team performed with very bad sportsmanship over the event, Fernandez should not be allowed anywhere near Valencia, Masia you could almost understand due to the title, but his riding was very harsh and unfair towards Sasaki, but as others have said, Sasaki suffers from the Japanese politeness thing, Foggy always used to say he always felt able to beat any Japanese rider as they are not in any way nasty, something you can take advantage of!
Dorna do a hell of a lot of good, but some of the stuff they do really is a little OTT.
I thought the entire leopard team performed with very bad sportsmanship over the event, Fernandez should not be allowed anywhere near Valencia, Masia you could almost understand due to the title, but his riding was very harsh and unfair towards Sasaki, but as others have said, Sasaki suffers from the Japanese politeness thing, Foggy always used to say he always felt able to beat any Japanese rider as they are not in any way nasty, something you can take advantage of!
Dorna do a hell of a lot of good, but some of the stuff they do really is a little OTT.
I thought the race was pretty boring, one of the most boring I've ever watched. On top of that the BT Sport / TNT Sport commentators just didn't pause for breath. I think I should have watched it with the sound muted.
And again it was Fabio Di Giannantonio, then Digi, and his pit board shows Diggia. Maybe they'll call him something else for the last race?
Then it was on to Pecco, then Francesco Bagnaia.
It's probably just me but flipping between each riders name gets really annoying.
And again it was Fabio Di Giannantonio, then Digi, and his pit board shows Diggia. Maybe they'll call him something else for the last race?
Then it was on to Pecco, then Francesco Bagnaia.
It's probably just me but flipping between each riders name gets really annoying.
Johno said:
Just reflecting .....
It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
Very True! Both Yamaha & Honda seem to be doing nothing to move forwards in terms of testing and development, or maybe they are? But others are moving forward quicker?It's a good job there are so many competitive Ducati's on the grid. Let's just imagine if there weren't, thinking if Yamaha had 4 bikes, Honda 6 bikes or whichever make up versus what we have currently.
The racing would be so spread out and we'd have fewer different winners, it'd be very dull I'd guess - recognising it's never possible to say with any certainty.
flatlandsman said:
Spencer has not got a great reputation as a steward apparently. And when you think of his career, literally breath taking for about 4 years then spent the next ten retiring, making comebacks, quitting after a few races and retiring. i would think Dorna could afford someone a little more current and aware of modern riding as a steward, but i do not know how they choose people or how many there are.
I thought the entire leopard team performed with very bad sportsmanship over the event, Fernandez should not be allowed anywhere near Valencia, Masia you could almost understand due to the title, but his riding was very harsh and unfair towards Sasaki, but as others have said, Sasaki suffers from the Japanese politeness thing, Foggy always used to say he always felt able to beat any Japanese rider as they are not in any way nasty, something you can take advantage of!
Dorna do a hell of a lot of good, but some of the stuff they do really is a little OTT.
Oh those cuddly Japanese japesters. Such softies. I thought the entire leopard team performed with very bad sportsmanship over the event, Fernandez should not be allowed anywhere near Valencia, Masia you could almost understand due to the title, but his riding was very harsh and unfair towards Sasaki, but as others have said, Sasaki suffers from the Japanese politeness thing, Foggy always used to say he always felt able to beat any Japanese rider as they are not in any way nasty, something you can take advantage of!
Dorna do a hell of a lot of good, but some of the stuff they do really is a little OTT.
Have you ever looked at their history and how ruthless their society is? Nothing shrieks deference more than refusing to surrender at any cost
I am talking about them in racing terms, not historically overall!
Japanese riders have always been thought of as fairly polite, fair racers, and if you look through history the vast majority are this. Haga was tough but he was not dirty, probably one of the toughest was Okada, but hardly Marquez was he! the 125 "invasion" of the early 90, now those guys were tough, very hard guys like Sakata, Ueda, Tsujimura, they raced damn hard. But a lot of the stayed in smaller bikes.
I was merely voicing an opinion based around watching for a lot of years that a few japanese riders do not maybe have that cut throat win at all costs mentality that other races do. And also opinion from reading stuff that some riders of that era said.
I cannot imagine say Harada doing the stuff Capirossi did to him, or Kato doing to Gibernau what Rossi did.
I think overall they race fair, and clean, and there is an element still of honour at stake, especially regarding sponsors and manufacturers perhaps.
Japanese riders have always been thought of as fairly polite, fair racers, and if you look through history the vast majority are this. Haga was tough but he was not dirty, probably one of the toughest was Okada, but hardly Marquez was he! the 125 "invasion" of the early 90, now those guys were tough, very hard guys like Sakata, Ueda, Tsujimura, they raced damn hard. But a lot of the stayed in smaller bikes.
I was merely voicing an opinion based around watching for a lot of years that a few japanese riders do not maybe have that cut throat win at all costs mentality that other races do. And also opinion from reading stuff that some riders of that era said.
I cannot imagine say Harada doing the stuff Capirossi did to him, or Kato doing to Gibernau what Rossi did.
I think overall they race fair, and clean, and there is an element still of honour at stake, especially regarding sponsors and manufacturers perhaps.
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