Doing it on the cheap, recommendations?

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

so you want to do it on the cheap, but are buying roll cages and track pads and tyres....?

a standard MX5 will take a lot of abuse, the only thing you need to upgrade is the front brake pads, Use any make that is competition spec, even EBC or HAWK.

as for the rest, make sure it's not pissing out fluid from any where, check the lights and levels, put the tyre pressures up to 40 psi all round and then send it.

As soon as you add 'performance' things start to fail. Stickier tyres equals knackered wheel bearings, and crank bearings because the oil is moving further away from the pick up pump on left hand corners.

K.I.S.S.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

so you want to do it on the cheap, but are buying roll cages and track pads and tyres....?

I have no roll over protection at all, I am happy with a rollbar, wife has done some of her own research which is basically googling "fatal mx5 rollovers" and now the fear has set in.

Also I want to be clear, I want to do it consistently on the cheap. Safety things like roll over protection is a 1 time thing, not something I have to replace every 3rd visit.

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

a standard MX5 will take a lot of abuse, the only thing you need to upgrade is the front brake pads, Use any make that is competition spec, even EBC or HAWK.

Do the Mintex 1144 fall under this category, or are there cheaper alternatives that are just as good? So far these seem to be dealing with the abuse, only had a long pedal once.

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

as for the rest, make sure it's not pissing out fluid from any where, check the lights and levels, put the tyre pressures up to 40 psi all round and then send it.

Doesn't leak thankfully lol. Tire pressures to 40psi? To reduce heat and grip for more fun/longevity?

[TheLoraxxZeus]

braddo said:

A cage means wearing a helmet at all times in the car. Not cheap and not money well spent!

This is true, I do want to say though that I am a 10 minute drive from Knockhill so driving the car there with a helmet on isn't too bad. I will try and calm down my partner about this, she is convinced that the rollbar won't do much to protect me from the windscreen coming down.

braddo said:

I would not touch rainsports except as wet-only tyres. Given how much tyre tech has improved in recent years, personally i would be trying a new design that scores highly in recent tyre tests, say in the dry handling section.

Even if it has ‘eco’ in the name, the latest Conti etc prob has better grip than the ancient michelin ps3 or toyo proxe.

Noted. I think my first step is to source some abused 15 inch wheels because there are very little choices at 14 inches. I'll keep the 14s and keep them for wet tires.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

TheLoraxxZeus said:

Doesn't leak thankfully lol. Tire pressures to 40psi? To reduce heat and grip for more fun/longevity?

cheap road tyres generally have soft tyre walls, so hard cornering means you are often rolling onto the tyre wall ( and turning it blue). So more pressure reduces this effect and gives more consistent handling and reduced tyre wear. It gives a bit of a floaty feeling, and will mean that hot pressures will be somewhere around 45-48psi but they'll take it.

I set my Twingo RS up in this way, and was doing 60 min stints at a time with no issues. (i did about 3000 track miles in 18 months) And that was a standard car bar, brake fluid and carbone lorraine cl5 front pads.

you could look at this thread as well
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

cheap road tyres generally have soft tyre walls, so hard cornering means you are often rolling onto the tyre wall ( and turning it blue). So more pressure reduces this effect and gives more consistent handling and reduced tyre wear. It gives a bit of a floaty feeling, and will mean that hot pressures will be somewhere around 45-48psi but they'll take it.

I set my Twingo RS up in this way, and was doing 60 min stints at a time with no issues. (i did about 3000 track miles in 18 months) And that was a standard car bar, brake fluid and carbone lorraine cl5 front pads.

you could look at this thread as well
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Oh great info thanks. I am running my Rainsports at the recommended tire pressure (29 I believe) and yeah, they are looking pretty badly scrubbed at the edges, with a lot of melted looking bits of the tread.

[Cambs_Stuart]

A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172.
AD08s are not the best, most sticky track day tyre if you're worried about lap times, but they last really well, and crucially have got a stiffer sidewall than a road tyre. I've done 12 days on them in my Clio (200+ miles per day) and they've got plenty of life left. They're rubbish in the wet.
Pilot sports are good in the wet, and are used as a control tyre, so there are lots of 195/50 R15 second hand ones around. Just get friendly with a tyre fitter. But in the dry you'll roll onto the side wall. 195/50 R15 is a really common size of tyre, so can be cheaper/easier to find things in this size.
Good pads and brake fluid (ATE TYP 200 is my to go) are worth the money. I've had M1144s and they're a step up from standard OEM, but will fade after 10 or 15 minutes on track. M1155s are better, but still not as good as PFC097. Which are the best I've had. If you're on a track day you don't want to always be in the pits waiting for stuff to cool down, so spend some money here. One of the most common early departure reasons I've seen is discs warping or pad pick up leading to vibration under braking, so make sure you use good discs too.
Don't ignore any leaks/drips from anything.
As for Oil, as long as it's the right spec for your car, any modern synthetic oil will be fine. Just don't go for C3, A3/B4 is better for track days (and is cheaper).

Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Friday 24th May 14:25

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Cambs_Stuart said:

A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172....

Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Friday 24th May 14:25

Thanks for sharing your experience .

Good news is partner has settled on just a rollbar, so either the TR Lane one or the GC2. Not sure, depends on stock and delivery time really.

This video here convinced her it was enough

[ian_c_uk]

As someone with a GCF rollbar on a mk1, that is quite comforting!

I don’t believe I need to wear a helmet at all times, it is behind and above the seats, so I’m not concerned about my skull making contact with it.

It does mean I have to get out to raise or drop the roof, but I think that is worth the additional safety!

[TheLoraxxZeus]

ian_c_uk said:

As someone with a GCF rollbar on a mk1, that is quite comforting!

How was the installation? Looks pretty straight forward but I've read some posts state that the GC3 X brace can interfere with the soft top roof going down.GC2 doesn't have this issue I guess.

I've just ordered it from Bofi Racing who has no GC2s but had 9 GC3s in stock. So I should get it for the weekend, which leaves me 5 days to get it fit so heres hoping the weather is not awful haha.

[SAS Tom]

I don’t think there is a real cheap way of doing it.

I’ve got one that is just used on track now and have done the following;

TR lane roll bar
OE bilsteins
Superpro anti roll bars
Nankang NS2R’s
Hawk DTC60 brake pads
Oil cooler
Alloy radiator
Torsen LSD
Braided brake lines
Brake cooling ducts
Bucket seat and harness

Plus a few other bits

It’s a car that can be used all day, sometimes we even do back to back sessions in it just swapping driver and it takes all the abuse without costing a fortune in expensive parts. Everyone who has driven it has been impressed with how good it is for relatively little money.

The biggest thing for me is brake pads. I tried yellowstuffs which were ok but got too hot. Roddisons which were awful, overheated then never recovered and then the Hawk’s which are awesome. They never go off, just keep taking the abuse and last long too.

[Dave200]

ian_c_uk said:

As someone with a GCF rollbar on a mk1, that is quite comforting!

I don’t believe I need to wear a helmet at all times, it is behind and above the seats, so I’m not concerned about my skull making contact with it.

It does mean I have to get out to raise or drop the roof, but I think that is worth the additional safety!

It's going to blow your mind when you realise how much your seats can move in even the most benign accident.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

SAS Tom said:

It’s a car that can be used all day, sometimes we even do back to back sessions in it just swapping driver and it takes all the abuse without costing a fortune in expensive parts. Everyone who has driven it has been impressed with how good it is for relatively little money.

I think my OP was worded poorly to be honest. What you have said here is what I am after, you had to pay a price to get it where it is but now you can drive it all day at the track and all you have to worry about are tires and brake components, which aren't that expensive really.

Of course on my side I also want to spend as little as possible on that upfront cost so that money can be put towards more time on track. So majority of the things in your list aren't too high a priority for me.

So I think there is a cheap way to consistently take the car to the track, like someone said a stock car is fine. Last time I was there, 4 MX-5s present with only 1 of them having a rollbar, rest completely stock. However I don't want to die, so I'm willing to put in at least the minimum to make the car safe lol.

Everyone has there own definition of cheap, for me that is roughly around £500 a month, which covers 2 track days with no new parts, or 1 track day with a set of new tires, for example.

Perhaps next year, I will focus on improving the car, I don't know. All I know is, this summer I'm having fun, I don't want another half built pile of st on my drive like the last time.

EDIT: Also I'm not naive, I know you don't ONLY have to worry about tires and pads, but when things are going well that is all you have to deal with.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Dave200 said:

It's going to blow your mind when you realise how much your seats can move in even the most benign accident.

I see what you did there.

[SAS Tom]

TheLoraxxZeus said:

SAS Tom said:

It’s a car that can be used all day, sometimes we even do back to back sessions in it just swapping driver and it takes all the abuse without costing a fortune in expensive parts. Everyone who has driven it has been impressed with how good it is for relatively little money.

I think my OP was worded poorly to be honest. What you have said here is what I am after, you had to pay a price to get it where it is but now you can drive it all day at the track and all you have to worry about are tires and brake components, which aren't that expensive really.

Of course on my side I also want to spend as little as possible on that upfront cost so that money can be put towards more time on track. So majority of the things in your list aren't too high a priority for me.

So I think there is a cheap way to consistently take the car to the track, like someone said a stock car is fine. Last time I was there, 4 MX-5s present with only 1 of them having a rollbar, rest completely stock. However I don't want to die, so I'm willing to put in at least the minimum to make the car safe lol.

Everyone has there own definition of cheap, for me that is roughly around £500 a month, which covers 2 track days with no new parts, or 1 track day with a set of new tires, for example.

Perhaps next year, I will focus on improving the car, I don't know. All I know is, this summer I'm having fun, I don't want another half built pile of st on my drive like the last time.

EDIT: Also I'm not naive, I know you don't ONLY have to worry about tires and pads, but when things are going well that is all you have to deal with.

I’d recommend the way I’ve done it then. Of course you can drive a standard car but you will find issues whether it’s overheating brakes or burning tyres because it’s got an open diff. Getting to a decent reliable spec means you can do lap after lap without issue and that is the most fun to me. Doesn’t matter how fast your car is if you have to keep coming back in to cool down.

My car got to the point that it is too rusty to go back on the road without spending a fortune. It’s also too good to break for parts as it still works just fine so it just comes out when I want to use it. I haven’t spent money on it other than fuel since 2021 as it doesn’t get used so much.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

SAS Tom said:

I’d recommend the way I’ve done it then. Of course you can drive a standard car but you will find issues whether it’s overheating brakes or burning tyres because it’s got an open diff. Getting to a decent reliable spec means you can do lap after lap without issue and that is the most fun to me. Doesn’t matter how fast your car is if you have to keep coming back in to cool down.

I've already experienced the heat issue, not so much with the power plant but tires + brakes overheating. Brakes I can deal with because you have to slow down, but the tires are easy to ignore because the car has so little power that when the grip drops you don't really care much because well...sliding is fun, especially at speeds that don't punish you heavily if you mess up.

SAS Tom said:

My car got to the point that it is too rusty to go back on the road without spending a fortune. It’s also too good to break for parts as it still works just fine so it just comes out when I want to use it. I haven’t spent money on it other than fuel since 2021 as it doesn’t get used so much.

I think next year I will be looking at the bigger picture, this NB is not long for the road. MOT is due next month and I can poke holes in the outer sills, I can make it past MOT with some filler + paint because the inner sills are not dead. However, in the years to come it's going to need doing, which I can myself but it will never be a "painted" car again.

[aka_kerrly]

Cambs_Stuart said:

A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172.
AD08s are not the best, most sticky track day tyre if you're worried about lap times, but they last really well, and crucially have got a stiffer sidewall than a road tyre. I've done 12 days on them in my Clio (200+ miles per day) and they've got plenty of life left. They're rubbish in the wet. cheaper).

Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Friday 24th May 14:25

Regarding the wet performance of the Yokohama tyres , having survived wet track days in a 350hp Civic Type R on AD08 & AD08R the R is certainly acceptable in the wet and once there is some heat in them the braking/corner grip was at least relatively consistent.

I've also used Bridgestone RE50, RE70, Uniroyal Rainsport3, Vredstein Ultrac Vorti and none of those felt significantly better or worse than the AD08R did around a wet Castle Combe. In the dry the ADO8R is by far the most grippy tyre, certainly inspires a lot of confidence with repeatable grip/cornering during 15min sessions and as noted the tread lasts reasonably well too.

[Krikkit]

Cambs_Stuart said:

A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172.
AD08s are not the best, most sticky track day tyre if you're worried about lap times, but they last really well, and crucially have got a stiffer sidewall than a road tyre. I've done 12 days on them in my Clio (200+ miles per day) and they've got plenty of life left. They're rubbish in the wet.
Pilot sports are good in the wet, and are used as a control tyre, so there are lots of 195/50 R15 second hand ones around. Just get friendly with a tyre fitter. But in the dry you'll roll onto the side wall. 195/50 R15 is a really common size of tyre, so can be cheaper/easier to find things in this size.
Good pads and brake fluid (ATE TYP 200 is my to go) are worth the money. I've had M1144s and they're a step up from standard OEM, but will fade after 10 or 15 minutes on track. M1155s are better, but still not as good as PFC097. Which are the best I've had. If you're on a track day you don't want to always be in the pits waiting for stuff to cool down, so spend some money here. One of the most common early departure reasons I've seen is discs warping or pad pick up leading to vibration under braking, so make sure you use good discs too.
Don't ignore any leaks/drips from anything.
As for Oil, as long as it's the right spec for your car, any modern synthetic oil will be fine. Just don't go for C3, A3/B4 is better for track days (and is cheaper).

Very similar experience here with an ST150 instead of a Clio 1x2.

On the braking, do you have any cooling? While we were running 17" wheels we had no issues with temps on the 1144s, now we've gone down to 15s they're getting pretty toasty again, which was happily cured with some cheap ducting.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

Is there any tires that can be recommended for wet days that are 14 inch? Price isn't as much of a factor because they are probably going to last bloody ages. I'm going to pick up some 15 inch oem alloys today from someone on Facebook, the ones you get on the sport trim MX-5 NB2. £80, can't complain! These will be for dry days.

I was going to keep my 14 inches for wet tires since I already own the wheels. Or should I just try and find another set of cheap 15s? I also already have the uniroyals on them, but the rear nearside tires is not doing well.

My rollbar should be here next week so excited for that.

Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Thursday 30th May 11:01

[48k]

If you are considering running semi slick tyres don't underestimate the impact on your suspension and toe links and roll bar due to the increased loads that they weren't designed for.
Having a toe link snap mid corner is puckering, ask me how I know.

[TheLoraxxZeus]

48k said:

If you are considering running semi slick tyres don't underestimate the impact on your suspension and toe links and roll bar due to the increased loads that they weren't designed for.
Having a toe link snap mid corner is puckering, ask me how I know.

Someone above did mention that, is it going to seriously fk the car up? If so, I'll stick to finding part used did l road tires.