Coal miners. Welsh ones. Were they well paid?
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Electro1980 said:
Having said that, it was reasonably well paid compared to the cost of living at the time, especially with overtime. My father in law paid off his mortgage on a 3 bed detached, on a new estate, on just his income, with two children, within 10 years. He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still… ]
So, wasn't a below ground miner then... 
littleredrooster said:
Evanivitch said:
Electro1980 said:
Having said that, it was reasonably well paid compared to the cost of living at the time, especially with overtime. My father in law paid off his mortgage on a 3 bed detached, on a new estate, on just his income, with two children, within 10 years. He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still… ]
So, wasn't a below ground miner then... The idea that these jobs were well paid is for the birds, whether a miner/mill worker or whatever, the pay was risible and the risks high and the living conditions pitiful by modern standards, I'm talking abut the 1930s/40s and 50s.
The fact you got more to risk your life down the pit than delivering bread or milk in the village does not mean they were well paid, they did it because they had no other choice, either that or the workhouse.
My grandfathers worked in the mills, both died before I was born in their 50's (as many did back then) my grandmothers lived to a ripe old age, life for working class men was very tough and I think that's all been forgotten these days, many wives didn't work but then you wouldn't want them to either if they couldn't get a safe job in an office as working in a mill was a death sentence for many (one that was paid later in life).
I know we all like to laugh at the 4 Yorkshire men sketch but from the tales my mum tells me about the whole family sleeping in the same bedroom due to damp, her sister getting polio and bedpans etc...it's not far from the truth, waking up with frost on the inside of the windows was a reality in a hard winter.
One telling thing she said to me was, "We didn't know we were poor because everyone else we knew lived the same life"
As a teenager I did a stretch of the SW coastal path with a few mates, we took a break and pitched tents at a cheap and cheerful campsite at Paignton for a few days. There were a lot of mining families from the valleys there on their annual holiday, the weather was glorious and as a bunch of independent, middle class lads we were a bit of a novelty, so I feared a bit of stick.
I had nothing to fear, they were warm, inquiring and generous and all astonished that our parents had let us stray so far from home. We had a great few days and I learned a lot from them, I know this isn’t the thread but it coloured my view of the strike a few years later. Whatever they earned it wasn’t enough.
I had nothing to fear, they were warm, inquiring and generous and all astonished that our parents had let us stray so far from home. We had a great few days and I learned a lot from them, I know this isn’t the thread but it coloured my view of the strike a few years later. Whatever they earned it wasn’t enough.
I wonder how many times i'd have to add "compared to other jobs of the same time and area" before people stopped comparing to modern-day industrial jobs and living? I'll get on Amazon and buy a new keyboard, I think I'll wear this one out.
eg, they had to use coal to heat their houses? Yeah, like many, many other people at the time. Only they got theirs for free. It was the mid-1980s before I lived in a house with central heating. (edit - and a benefit that a small number of people still receive - I'd happily have £600 handed to me to buy fuel.)
Born into certain parts of Wales or Yorkshire? You options were largely,
(Get educated and get the hell out - by no means an option for everyone.)
Get down t'pit.
Move to Sheffield or Port Talbot and get some other dangerous heavy-industrial job, probably poorer-paid, and usually without a lot of the other benefits that NCB provided.
eg, they had to use coal to heat their houses? Yeah, like many, many other people at the time. Only they got theirs for free. It was the mid-1980s before I lived in a house with central heating. (edit - and a benefit that a small number of people still receive - I'd happily have £600 handed to me to buy fuel.)
Born into certain parts of Wales or Yorkshire? You options were largely,
(Get educated and get the hell out - by no means an option for everyone.)
Get down t'pit.
Move to Sheffield or Port Talbot and get some other dangerous heavy-industrial job, probably poorer-paid, and usually without a lot of the other benefits that NCB provided.
From Hansard 1984
asked Her Majesty's Government:What are the average earnings of miners employed at the coal face.
The Earl of Avon
Sharethis specific contribution
Average weekly earnings, including overtime, incentive payments and allowances, for face and development workers were given by the National Coal Board's most recent Gross Earnings Survey (April 1983) as £178.93. Since then the board have offered 5.2 per cent. on grade rates from 1st November 1983, but this has yet to be accepted. Earnings in 1984 have been severely affected by the present dispute in the industry.
Average gross weekly earnings in the UK at the time were £117, 60% of UK earners earned under the average
asked Her Majesty's Government:What are the average earnings of miners employed at the coal face.
The Earl of Avon
Sharethis specific contribution
Average weekly earnings, including overtime, incentive payments and allowances, for face and development workers were given by the National Coal Board's most recent Gross Earnings Survey (April 1983) as £178.93. Since then the board have offered 5.2 per cent. on grade rates from 1st November 1983, but this has yet to be accepted. Earnings in 1984 have been severely affected by the present dispute in the industry.
Average gross weekly earnings in the UK at the time were £117, 60% of UK earners earned under the average
king way I'd want to work in a place like that!Electro1980 said:
Such a luxury, being able to heat rooms with fires for free. But not the rest of the house, or hot water, both of which will be central heating like everyone else, or cooking.
In reality I doubt many take up the free coal. I know my father in law has had central heating and no coal fire for 40ish years. Not sure what he would do with free his free coal if he chose to get it delivered.
The cash amount is £600, and seems to only be for people who didn’t stop getting the coal before the cash alternative was introduced. Hardly a princely sum.
Having said that, it was reasonably well paid compared to the cost of living at the time, especially with overtime. My father in law paid off his mortgage on a 3 bed detached, on a new estate, on just his income, with two children, within 10 years. He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still… I’d say train drivers are the equivalent today, although he did have to retire on ill health due to PTSD that still haunts him today, so he paid a heavy price.
The boilers were coal fired. Atleast my mums was. You just filled the hopper at the top.In reality I doubt many take up the free coal. I know my father in law has had central heating and no coal fire for 40ish years. Not sure what he would do with free his free coal if he chose to get it delivered.
The cash amount is £600, and seems to only be for people who didn’t stop getting the coal before the cash alternative was introduced. Hardly a princely sum.
Having said that, it was reasonably well paid compared to the cost of living at the time, especially with overtime. My father in law paid off his mortgage on a 3 bed detached, on a new estate, on just his income, with two children, within 10 years. He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still… I’d say train drivers are the equivalent today, although he did have to retire on ill health due to PTSD that still haunts him today, so he paid a heavy price.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 24th May 10:15
Worked pretty well TBF. Obviously not as convenient as gas.
Evanivitch said:
littleredrooster said:
Evanivitch said:
Electro1980 said:
Having said that, it was reasonably well paid compared to the cost of living at the time, especially with overtime. My father in law paid off his mortgage on a 3 bed detached, on a new estate, on just his income, with two children, within 10 years. He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still… ]
So, wasn't a below ground miner then... He saw more than a few friends die, and got trapped underground with miners, which is why he still suffers with PTSD to this day. Frankly your quibbling over job titles is insulting, and would have got you thumped if you had said that in front of him before he became a frail old man, earlier than most thanks to his time underground.
ChocolateFrog said:
The boilers were coal fired. Atleast my mums was. You just filled the hopper at the top.
Worked pretty well TBF. Obviously not as convenient as gas.
I’m aware of that, but not really something people are using now, which was the comment about free coal was about.Worked pretty well TBF. Obviously not as convenient as gas.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 24th May 15:04
My late father in law was a coal miner in the North East.
He stopped after his National Service (he was put into Submarines!)
We visited a few family members when up that way in the 1980s, colliery houses.
His family were descended from Cornish Tin miners in the 1800s.
Quite a few lost their lives or died from industrial diseases.
He stopped after his National Service (he was put into Submarines!)
We visited a few family members when up that way in the 1980s, colliery houses.
His family were descended from Cornish Tin miners in the 1800s.
Quite a few lost their lives or died from industrial diseases.
Southerner said:
Not sure there are many parallels with modern day train driving; were miners earning the equivalent of c.£60k basic back in the day? The entry path into those jobs are also worlds apart; people queue up in their thousands to be train drivers, undertake a pretty intense assessment process and spend 18 months becoming qualified. Mining was almost a dead cert from the moment you were born for a lot of blokes, it was the reason their towns existed and there was precious little else. Not the same picture!
That's not really true of train drivers, 'back when'. It used to take years to get from being a cleaner to driving a shunter, via being a fireman, then work your way up again to driving express trains, then retiring and dying from a lifetime of smoke inhalation.Electro1980 said:
. Frankly your quibbling over job titles is insulting, and would have got you thumped if you had said that in front of him before he became a frail old man, earlier than most thanks to his time underground.
Hopefully he'll give you a slap first for saying he was a fitter, not a miner. Electro1980 said:
He was a fitter rather than a miner, so slightly more skilled and better paid, but still…
Yertis said:
Southerner said:
Not sure there are many parallels with modern day train driving; were miners earning the equivalent of c.£60k basic back in the day? The entry path into those jobs are also worlds apart; people queue up in their thousands to be train drivers, undertake a pretty intense assessment process and spend 18 months becoming qualified. Mining was almost a dead cert from the moment you were born for a lot of blokes, it was the reason their towns existed and there was precious little else. Not the same picture!
That's not really true of train drivers, 'back when'. It used to take years to get from being a cleaner to driving a shunter, via being a fireman, then work your way up again to driving express trains, then retiring and dying from a lifetime of smoke inhalation.
Evanivitch said:
Do you think if you said to an offshore oil worker that they'd be paid bang average money (£35k), but they'd get their gas bill paid, their children's school uniform, a bus pass and loan deals, they'd call it a good package? I'm not sure they would.
£35k p.a. ?Even for 6 months work p.a. (4 weeks on 4 weeks off) that wasn't 'big money' for North Sea working conditions. That money had to cover for 4 weeks leave.
North Sea Tigers?
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