Electric cars up to 3x likelier to hit pedestrians than ICE

[FMOB]

When I am out walking it is noticeable that EV's are generally closer to me when I hear them than ICE vehicles but it is dependent upon the actual vehicle and the tyres.

[Rough101]

EV DRIVERS more likely to flatten pedestrians.

What were they driving before, that was probably top.

[MrTrilby]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Don’t forget cyclists are also dealing with wind noise in their ears. Sometimes you cannot hear anything around you. It’s one of the reason I use a radar unit when cycling.

I use a radar on my bike for exactly the same reason.

A secondary polite horn would be useful in that situation. There’s no way I’d want to use anything like as intimidating as the actual horn, but it would be handy to temporarily make the car noisier. Maybe we should mandate that all cars should also be fitted with bells…

[cerb4.5lee]

MrTrilby said:

CheesecakeRunner said:

Don’t forget cyclists are also dealing with wind noise in their ears. Sometimes you cannot hear anything around you. It’s one of the reason I use a radar unit when cycling.

I use a radar on my bike for exactly the same reason.

A secondary polite horn would be useful in that situation. There’s no way I’d want to use anything like as intimidating as the actual horn, but it would be handy to temporarily make the car noisier. Maybe we should mandate that all cars should also be fitted with bells…

Whenever I see cyclists nowadays I always think they must have a death wish to be honest. No chance would I share the road now with cars on a push bike that is for sure! The standard of driving now is lousy I reckon.

Don't get my wrong, I did used to love going out on my road bike around 30 years ago though in fairness for sure. However back then traffic was a lot lighter, plus folk actually gave a bit of consideration for other folk as well back then. We live too much in a world of "I'm alright Jack" now for me.

Going out on the roads on a road bike now is guaranteed to shorten your life expectancy for me, so it isn't worth the risk anymore in my opinion.

[Red9zero]

cerb4.5lee said:

Whenever I see cyclists nowadays I always think they must have a death wish to be honest. No chance would I share the road now with cars on a push bike that is for sure! The standard of driving now is lousy I reckon.

Don't get my wrong, I did used to love going out on my road bike around 30 years ago though in fairness for sure. However back then traffic was a lot lighter, plus folk actually gave a bit of consideration for other folk as well back then. We live too much in a world of "I'm alright Jack" now for me.

Going out on the roads on a road bike now is guaranteed to shorten your life expectancy for me, so it isn't worth the risk anymore in my opinion.

I saw a very near miss with a cyclist this morning, so much so I had my hand on my phone as I was sure I was going to have to call an ambulance. Cyclist was moving along, minding his own business, when a 4x4 pick up heading towards him at a rate of knots pulled out to pass a parked car just as the cyclist was passing it on the other side of the road. There must have been a 6" gap at the most, but the cyclist just carried on his way. I assume it must be a daily occurrence for him, but I'd have jumped out of my skin if I'd have been in a car, never mind on a bike.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Red9zero said:

Cyclist was moving along, minding his own business, when a 4x4 pick up heading towards him at a rate of knots pulled out to pass a parked car just as the cyclist was passing it on the other side of the road. There must have been a 6" gap at the most, but the cyclist just carried on his way. I assume it must be a daily occurrence for him

At risk of derailing the thread, sadly it is totally normal. People will overtake parked cars head on to bikes with an assumption the bike will get out of the way. Probably happens to me on every ride.

Happens to motorbikes too.

[otolith]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Red9zero said:

Cyclist was moving along, minding his own business, when a 4x4 pick up heading towards him at a rate of knots pulled out to pass a parked car just as the cyclist was passing it on the other side of the road. There must have been a 6" gap at the most, but the cyclist just carried on his way. I assume it must be a daily occurrence for him

At risk of derailing the thread, sadly it is totally normal. People will overtake parked cars head on to bikes with an assumption the bike will get out of the way. Probably happens to me on every ride.

Happens to motorbikes too.

Which is why cyclists often take road positions which mean that you can't squeeze through.

[CheesecakeRunner]

They still try, trust me. I’ve come to a complete halt in the road in the past as someone has driven head on towards me. But this is well off topic for this thread, so I’m not going to add anything further, otherwise it’ll descend into another PistonHeads cyclists st show.

[Red9zero]

To drag it back a bit o/t, I did notice the noise of the pick up tyres before I actually saw it. I assume they were mud tyres as the A/T`s on my old Landie aren't that loud. Maybe electric cars need noisier tyres ?

[MrTrilby]

cerb4.5lee said:

Whenever I see cyclists nowadays I always think they must have a death wish to be honest. No chance would I share the road now with cars on a push bike that is for sure! The standard of driving now is lousy I reckon.

Despite the negative posts you see here and elsewhere, my experience is mostly positive. I try to cycle to work 3 times a week and find that the vast majority of drivers where I live are courteous - leaving plenty of room for overtakes and not trying suicide dives past me.

But there are a tiny minority of drivers. For those, defensive cycling - not hugging the kerb / using up more of the lane - makes a massive difference.

For a tiny minority of that tiny minority I do sometimes get people who will drive on the wrong side of the road head on at you expecting you to move. For those it pays to be aware - you can generally predict it: pickup, transit, Range Rover, driver over 60 = elevated risk. Because of them I ride with a camera so when I do have to swerve or stop to keep myself safe, there is evidence for the police to take action. And they do.

But that happens maybe two or three times a year - most drivers are considerate where I ride - but we have the advantage of a decent number of people commuting by bicycle, so seeing a bicycle on the road is not a surprise.

[DonkeyApple]

I also think it's far better today than thirty years ago. Today drivers genuinely understand to give space and try to do so. When I cycled in London thirty years ago pretty much every vehicle would be passing a foot away whereas today they give much more space and it's just the dicks who stand out as they deliberately buzz you. I tend to find Im more likely to be buzzed by another cyclist than a car these days as I bumble along on my old clunker or Boris bike clearly offending specialists.

[ashenfie]

It should be made law that EVs make a reasonable amount of noise. Most cyclists are sensible, but we have cycle lanes near us, and you see some people cycling on the wrong side of the road without lights, helmets, or reflective clothing. Bikes have the same design flaw and a fair few more issues.
While I don't mind cyclists passing red lights if they are careful, one guy I see daily cycling down a bus lane at speed and not holding the handlebars is like a red rag to a bull. Anyone pedestrian or taxi moving into the lane is put at severe risk.

[CheesecakeRunner]

ashenfie said:

It should be made law that EVs make a reasonable amount of noise.

It already is.

Any more starts to remove a key benefit of EVs which is reduction in urban noise pollution, which is just as beneficial as the improvements they make to urban air quality.

[turbobloke]

CheesecakeRunner said:

ashenfie said:

It should be made law that EVs make a reasonable amount of noise.

It already is.

Any more starts to remove a key benefit of EVs which is reduction in urban noise pollution, which is just as beneficial as the improvements they make to urban air quality.

Here's an air quality study from outside the EV industry, which EV co's and EV fans have been working overtime to rubbish,

https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/gaining-tr...

[GT9]

turbobloke said:

Here's an air quality study from outside the EV industry, which EV co's and EV fans have been working overtime to rubbish,

https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/gaining-tr...

And where's the study to show that EV's chew through their tyres faster?
If you are simply assuming 'because weight' then once again you've gone off half-cocked on a topic you know little about.
This stuff about 'weight=bad' has been dragged through the mud for about 5 years in this sub-forum, you are very late to the party.
Multiple factors influence wear, weight is just one of them.
There is no sound evidence anywhere that EVs are increasing tyre wear per mile.

Maybe a more recent presentation from the very same company you are using as a source would have been a better starting point?
The earlier stuff you linked to was full of holes and they were rightly told to go and sharpen their pencils.

https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/presentati...

Here are the key messages:

• Tyre emissions problem is more complex and significant than previously thought
• It affects vehicles of all types, not just BEVs
• But BEVs do have higher emissions on average on a like-for-like basis, but the real world is rarely like-for-like
• High variability in chemical composition between brands and models of tyre
• Current BEV tyres tend to be higher wearing but less toxic – and at a price
• While US regulations are targeting certain chemicals, Euro 7 may incentivise heavy vehicles and compounds with higher aromatics
> Developing regulation must be holistic, and empirically informed

Not conclusive then, especially when several fleet operators in the UK are on record recently, stating that they are seeing no increase in tyre wear for their EVs.

Edited by GT9 on Friday 24th May 15:41

[DonkeyApple]

turbobloke said:

Here's an air quality study from outside the EV industry, which EV co's and EV fans have been working overtime to rubbish,

https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/gaining-tr...

There is a fundamental issue with that article though. It assumes that all particles are equal which they're manifestly not and when that comes to pollution it is the critical aspect. For example, pure spherical carbon pm2.5 is completely harmless to humans just as pollen is unless in catastrophic overload that clogs the alveolar. Conversely, just small amounts of weakly combusted and heavy metal rich lignite can be incredibly toxic to humans both in terms of limiting lung function but in terms of delivering toxins to the blood system.

It's partly why the pm2.5 on the Tube is generally low risk despite being very high volume. It's mostly just human skin and non combusted particulates along with organics such as pollen that's being breathed in.

So, the question to be asking is not where the tyre particulates of certain vehicles which are heavier than others (another issue with the article seeing as a diesel Range Rover is heavier than a Mini E and produces more tyre particulates, this one can see this isn't an EV issue at all but a potential issue for any vehicle that isn't essential and basic) but what is it about the shape of tyre particles that makes them more toxic than others and more importantly, what are the toxins being carried by these particles and how are they getting into tyre manufacture?

[otolith]

Careful, they're coming for your shoes next.


https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-detai...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2428422-indoo...

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

Careful, they're coming for your shoes next.


https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-detai...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2428422-indoo...

This chappie won't be happy. Bit he does have a face mask to protect against particulates from the shoe.

https://youtu.be/IV__cv_AHzQ?si=MHRtPILoc6tx7-mt

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

This chappie won't be happy. Bit he does have a face mask to protect against particulates from the shoe.

https://youtu.be/IV__cv_AHzQ?si=MHRtPILoc6tx7-mt

Jesus Christ, the things you see on public transport

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

Jesus Christ, the things you see on public transport

It's what makes public transport so superb. You never fail to arrive somewhere not appreciating that life could always be worse. The secret is to just never sit or touch anything.