EV with real 300+ mile range?
Discussion
Maracus said:
TheDeuce said:
Maracus said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
It's not just Source London, practically every major charging network has subscription tiers, it was the case 4 years ago and still true today. The only seamless network is the Tesla supercharger network but even then you've got to pay for a subscription to access the network for non-Tesla users. To put petrol in my car I simply turn up and can even pay in physical cash!
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.Electroverse is tap the card, as is just about every 50kW and above. Just like using a Pay-at-the-Pump.
If I happen across a charger not on the scheme, I just pay by tapping my phone.
I don't know why this guy is obsessed about apps and subs when everyone with an EV is telling him they don't bother with any of it
Which, to be fair, it was like that.
Although it's been pointed out several times it's very different now...to no avail.
blueg33 said:
My accountant has just advised me to buy an electric car through my company! ICE needs to remain personal.
Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
It is a no brainer... Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
I didn't realise it was your own company btw, which is important as I assume that would save you virtually all the fuel costs for the very heavy mileage you're doing.
If so the thousands a year could help justify finding a way to get a charger sorted. Have you asked if the co can pay for all/some of the install costs too?
TheDeuce said:
blueg33 said:
My accountant has just advised me to buy an electric car through my company! ICE needs to remain personal.
Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
It is a no brainer... Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
I didn't realise it was your own company btw, which is important as I assume that would save you virtually all the fuel costs for the very heavy mileage you're doing.
If so the thousands a year could help justify finding a way to get a charger sorted. Have you asked if the co can pay for all/some of the install costs too?
Apparently I can recover half of the VAT and any interest on the car finance is deductible from Corp tax
blueg33 said:
TheDeuce said:
blueg33 said:
My accountant has just advised me to buy an electric car through my company! ICE needs to remain personal.
Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
It is a no brainer... Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
I didn't realise it was your own company btw, which is important as I assume that would save you virtually all the fuel costs for the very heavy mileage you're doing.
If so the thousands a year could help justify finding a way to get a charger sorted. Have you asked if the co can pay for all/some of the install costs too?
Apparently I can recover half of the VAT and any interest on the car finance is deductible from Corp tax
blueg33 said:
TheDeuce said:
blueg33 said:
My accountant has just advised me to buy an electric car through my company! ICE needs to remain personal.
Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
It is a no brainer... Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
I didn't realise it was your own company btw, which is important as I assume that would save you virtually all the fuel costs for the very heavy mileage you're doing.
If so the thousands a year could help justify finding a way to get a charger sorted. Have you asked if the co can pay for all/some of the install costs too?
Apparently I can recover half of the VAT and any interest on the car finance is deductible from Corp tax
blueg33 said:
TheDeuce said:
blueg33 said:
My accountant has just advised me to buy an electric car through my company! ICE needs to remain personal.
Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
It is a no brainer... Has anyone here tried a BYD Seal?
I didn't realise it was your own company btw, which is important as I assume that would save you virtually all the fuel costs for the very heavy mileage you're doing.
If so the thousands a year could help justify finding a way to get a charger sorted. Have you asked if the co can pay for all/some of the install costs too?
Apparently I can recover half of the VAT and any interest on the car finance is deductible from Corp tax
I got the charger paid via co at home as it is my primary (and provable as such) place of work. Even if you can't spin that, I believe you can reimburse yourself per mile as you're 'fuelling' the car yourself, which at your mileage combined with other savings would surely cover off the charger cost very quickly.
I really think you should get a spark to quite for a 32a ceeform socket near the car... Don't even need to mention car charging.
blueg33 said:
theboss said:
Might want to double check the first point. The company can pay for an employee's home charger installation with no BIK arising in conjunction with a company EV.
I'm not an employeeI'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
TheDeuce said:
That's odd - you would typically make yourself an employee of your own company, as opposed to just a shareholder.
I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
Symantics alert. You put yourself through payroll, you aren't necessarily an employee....I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
pherlopolus said:
TheDeuce said:
That's odd - you would typically make yourself an employee of your own company, as opposed to just a shareholder.
I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
Symantics alert. You put yourself through payroll, you aren't necessarily an employee....I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
But to take a company car don't you need to be an employee? And in fact for various tax reasons and especially some perks, you want to have an employment contract with the company that defines your employment and primary place of work etc.
Regarding range, and range anxiety: I left home this morning with 48% charge (around 102 miles.) Got stuck in some hideous traffic, the normally 45 minute 25 miles journey took 3 hours, much of it stop start crawling. (Didn't see any evidence of the 'emergency repairs' that were on the radio, just a lot of cones and not a single worker...)
What impact did this have on my range? It took an extra 5 miles off, the overall efficiency dropped from 2.8 m/kWh (remember it's the less efficient GT model) to 2.4 m/kWh, about a 15% drop overall, all the while while stationary the air-con and electronics consumed around 900w, which matches those figures.
Absolutely no reason for range anxiety in one of the worst tail backs I can remember in the 20 years I've been commuting this route.
At the same time, gliding along in a silent EV, air-con on full blast, radio playing, with no annoying engine start stop, no clutch or auto transmission engaging and disengaging etc, while it doesn't take away the annoyance of the delay, was much the easiest way to do it. I wonder what the fuel economy of the petrol and diesel cars was with an average journey speed of 8 mph? (I also saw a couple broken down, presumably overheated?)
In traffic, an EV is 100% better than an ICE vehicle, there's no comparison!
What impact did this have on my range? It took an extra 5 miles off, the overall efficiency dropped from 2.8 m/kWh (remember it's the less efficient GT model) to 2.4 m/kWh, about a 15% drop overall, all the while while stationary the air-con and electronics consumed around 900w, which matches those figures.
Absolutely no reason for range anxiety in one of the worst tail backs I can remember in the 20 years I've been commuting this route.
At the same time, gliding along in a silent EV, air-con on full blast, radio playing, with no annoying engine start stop, no clutch or auto transmission engaging and disengaging etc, while it doesn't take away the annoyance of the delay, was much the easiest way to do it. I wonder what the fuel economy of the petrol and diesel cars was with an average journey speed of 8 mph? (I also saw a couple broken down, presumably overheated?)
In traffic, an EV is 100% better than an ICE vehicle, there's no comparison!
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 24th May 10:46
TheDeuce said:
blueg33 said:
theboss said:
Might want to double check the first point. The company can pay for an employee's home charger installation with no BIK arising in conjunction with a company EV.
I'm not an employeeI'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
740EVTORQUES said:
In traffic, an EV is 100% better than an ICE vehicle, there's no comparison!
Yup - its all about the use case!Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 24th May 10:46
EV's are always going to be more efficient in and around town because its stop / start traffic and typically at lower speeds, and of course, stuck in traffic too. Now, on the other hand, if you are constantly running at 75-80 MPH for hundreds of miles in an EV, that might not be the best use case. Your efficiency will drop pretty dramatically and a good efficient ICE with long gearing is likely to be pretty close on overall costs. When you add in availability of fuel / recharging and the time required, maybe an EV doesnt make sense in these situations?
Of course, its all variable though. Some EV's are way better at longer distances at higher speeds (looking at you, German manufacturers), but some less so. What is frustrating is that there really isnt any consistent details on this so that consumers can make a valid choice. Which method of calculating the range do you use? What about the situation when the manufacturer 'self certifies' their range? No manufacturer really does the range at 70MPH type tests, so its left to journalists and YouTubers.... Then again, the same is true for ICE, but we have accepted this broadly. Given the shift to EV is an open question for many, surely we should have some more transparency?
Even at 70-80mph an EV will be massively cheaper to run than any ICE car provided it is home charged. The problem is the very high public charge rates not the underlying efficiency of the EV
And remember when you’re thinking of efficiency there are two figures, the effective mpg by cost and the effective mpg by CO2.
My EV6 GT does 220 mpg considering cost compared to petrol if it is home charged
It does 120mpg if you consider its amortised lifecycle CO2 emissions.
Both are significantly better than any ICE car, even at 70-80 mph
And remember when you’re thinking of efficiency there are two figures, the effective mpg by cost and the effective mpg by CO2.
My EV6 GT does 220 mpg considering cost compared to petrol if it is home charged
It does 120mpg if you consider its amortised lifecycle CO2 emissions.
Both are significantly better than any ICE car, even at 70-80 mph
740EVTORQUES said:
Even at 70-80mph an EV will be massively cheaper to run than any ICE car provided it is home charged. ....
Not really, the capital/lease/depreciation cost dominates in the real world.The average UK car consumes under £1000 of fuel in a year.
And the road tax on my diesel would be offset by the higher insurance cost for an EV.
To actually save money against a modest IC car, you have to be talking about the best value of the used EVs, and you have to do a relatively high mileage on cheap electricity.
Or you need to be getting a bribe from the public purse.
And that's not just 'shed-o-nomics', work out the true cost over a few years and a typical mileage for a 'comparable' approved used IC car or leasing a new one or whatever, there are a great many people finding EVs are not yet much of a bargain.
We are starting to get there though.
ILooking at AT for EVs with 300 miles of alleged range, there are some starting to look affordable over a reasonable timespan.
TheDeuce said:
pherlopolus said:
TheDeuce said:
That's odd - you would typically make yourself an employee of your own company, as opposed to just a shareholder.
I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
Symantics alert. You put yourself through payroll, you aren't necessarily an employee....I'm a fully paid up employee of my company - salary £12,570 a year for the obvious tax reasons.
ETA: If you can get an EV as a company car for tax reasons, I assume your accountant at least considers you an employee of the company!
But to take a company car don't you need to be an employee? And in fact for various tax reasons and especially some perks, you want to have an employment contract with the company that defines your employment and primary place of work etc.
I tried to keep out but a couple of statements keep coming back, and I'm not sure they come from people who have actually lived through the situations they describe.
Firstly, we very frequently do trips to my wife's family at the other side of Europe. This does indeed take more time than before (rule of thumb is an hour every 300 miles and that seems to be true on avg). Despite the distance of 850 miles, we've naturally adjusted and have never faced range anxiety despite very limited availability of public charging in the destination country. The total door to door time increased from 11-12h to 14-15h.
Secondly, we don't have a charging system at home (yet) due to practical issues that need to be addressed first.
Living in the country side, there are a limited number of 11kW spots in the village, with the closest fast charger at 15 min. We never use the latter. My office is at 40 miles (64 km) one way, so even if I can't charge there (luckily, very often I can), so even at 17kWh per 100km that takes around 21 kWh (up to 25 in reality in winter). With an available battery of 90 kWh, and taking 10 to 80 perc into account, that gives around 3 return trips. Charging in the village or at work easily cover for the consumption, so in practice I hardly use fast chargers anywhere except for those long trips. (when at work, I charge to 90 percent as then I arrive at home with a bit less than 80 perc)
So, taking our need for long trips and a lack of charging at home into account, I can honestly say that we don't suffer from any of the often touted stories... (and before I get asked to hand in my ph card, there are in total still 20 cilinders around as well). The only thing I would advice people to consider is indeed the financial bit. The impact of tax advantages and depreciation can be important and should be looked at case by case, as legislations are different between countries and even seem to change a bit over time.
Firstly, we very frequently do trips to my wife's family at the other side of Europe. This does indeed take more time than before (rule of thumb is an hour every 300 miles and that seems to be true on avg). Despite the distance of 850 miles, we've naturally adjusted and have never faced range anxiety despite very limited availability of public charging in the destination country. The total door to door time increased from 11-12h to 14-15h.
Secondly, we don't have a charging system at home (yet) due to practical issues that need to be addressed first.
Living in the country side, there are a limited number of 11kW spots in the village, with the closest fast charger at 15 min. We never use the latter. My office is at 40 miles (64 km) one way, so even if I can't charge there (luckily, very often I can), so even at 17kWh per 100km that takes around 21 kWh (up to 25 in reality in winter). With an available battery of 90 kWh, and taking 10 to 80 perc into account, that gives around 3 return trips. Charging in the village or at work easily cover for the consumption, so in practice I hardly use fast chargers anywhere except for those long trips. (when at work, I charge to 90 percent as then I arrive at home with a bit less than 80 perc)
So, taking our need for long trips and a lack of charging at home into account, I can honestly say that we don't suffer from any of the often touted stories... (and before I get asked to hand in my ph card, there are in total still 20 cilinders around as well). The only thing I would advice people to consider is indeed the financial bit. The impact of tax advantages and depreciation can be important and should be looked at case by case, as legislations are different between countries and even seem to change a bit over time.
Why are Stellantis so far behind other brands when it comes to electrical range?
The commercial electric van rangers are horrific but let’s talk passenger cars for a moment.
The Vauxhall corsa electric, we got 132 miles from a 100% over night charge before the range was down to 2%.
132 miles is pathetic.
Vauxhall forum feedback suggests this is normal for a Vauxhall Corsa / Peugeot 208 (same cars, different badges) in the summer.
Official range figure for a 73 plate corsa design trim is 221 miles.
The Stellantis group seen miles off it when it comes to real world ranges
The commercial electric van rangers are horrific but let’s talk passenger cars for a moment.
The Vauxhall corsa electric, we got 132 miles from a 100% over night charge before the range was down to 2%.
132 miles is pathetic.
Vauxhall forum feedback suggests this is normal for a Vauxhall Corsa / Peugeot 208 (same cars, different badges) in the summer.
Official range figure for a 73 plate corsa design trim is 221 miles.
The Stellantis group seen miles off it when it comes to real world ranges
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff