Reading data stored on car keys

[rossb]

Hi

just a general query really - i have a bmw which stores information on the key fob - the precise nature of which i am not entirely sure - guy in the pub at the weekend was adamant that it recorded speed/revs etc for last 15 minutes of use. yes it was april 1st - i was in my local and i may well have misinterpreted what he meant - but the gist of what he was saying was that BIB have the capability to read this information. i should mention i have not had the car long so have not bothered trotting down to the dealer to determine precisely what the key fob stores

My questions are:

- does anyone know if these key fobs store any data rlating to speed/gears/revs?
- can the BIB interrogate this data from the key - or do they have the capability to read information from the ECU using the ignition socket from the roadside using another "key/device"?
- if the data is available relating to speed/revs/gears - on the assumption that is not calibrated etc - would this mean that this is not admissable as evidence in the event of a prospective conviction?

or am i just being needlessly anxious after a well intentioned comment at my local and that such big brother tactics are some way off in the future?

of course i qualify this by saying that like everyone else here i seldom if ever exceed the speed limit etc - and am merely interested from an academic viewpoint and to put the correct response to him from the informed ones on PH when i doubtless will bump into him at the pub

TIA

[covboy]

Not sure about the key, but in a similar vein, I wa told recently that "top end" cars have a huge amount of data stored that can be accessed (by a dealer?) to give a pretty good idea of how the car has been driven and treated mechanicaly

Again "pub talk"

[mjb1]

Don't see why it would store anything like tha in the keyfob - only alarm/immobiliser stuff there (waits to be corrected).

With a lot of modern cars, their ECU will store some information about how it's been driven. Only the manufacturer will know the exact details, but it's likely to vary from model to model. I doubt the police could access it directly, they would probably need the manufacturer's cooperation. It won't be possible to do it at the roadside. Maybe in another few years or so....

[Dibble]

BMW keys can be read, but not at the roadside. Usually only dealers have the readers.

Many ECUs store a fair bit of data too. Each make is different, so I've no idea exactly what.

I don't think it's as extensive as described.

[agtlaw]

mjb1 said:

With a lot of modern cars, their ECU will store some information about how it's been driven. Only the manufacturer will know the exact details, but it's likely to vary from model to model. I doubt the police could access it directly, they would probably need the manufacturer's cooperation. It won't be possible to do it at the roadside. Maybe in another few years or so....

Correct, i've dealt with cases where the police sent the ECU to the manufacturer (e.g. Jaguar) for info. From memory these were all death by dangerous driving cases.

[Dave Hedgehog]

agtlaw said:

mjb1 said:

With a lot of modern cars, their ECU will store some information about how it's been driven. Only the manufacturer will know the exact details, but it's likely to vary from model to model. I doubt the police could access it directly, they would probably need the manufacturer's cooperation. It won't be possible to do it at the roadside. Maybe in another few years or so....

Correct, i've dealt with cases where the police sent the ECU to the manufacturer (e.g. Jaguar) for info. From memory these were all death by dangerous driving cases.

my understanding is that they store the last few seconds of information when the air bag has been triggered

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Info varies. Highly expensive to pull. Only used for most serious of offences. Some keys do store but it's less info than ECU.

[blueg33]

Audi A6 stores info that identifies each key, it then remembers your last radio station, memory seat positions, mirror positions etc. So when I use my key I get radio 4 a low seating position, all door unlock on 1 press of the remote, etc, when mrs B uses her key she gets radio 2, high seat position, drivers door only on 1 press of the remote etc

[mrmr96]

BMW keys store fault codes.
Porche ecu stores over revs.
Both may do other stuff too.

[snuffle]

One of my keys starts 2 of my cars, both different makes, and also a friends MGA

[guru_1071]

snuffle said:

One of my keys starts 2 of my cars, both different makes, and also a friends MGA

sounds like its been hacked............

[supermono]

My M5 threw a fault and went into limp home mid overtake on a s/c road. Luckily it had enough speed to complete the overtake before coasting into a handy layby. Later at the dealer mechanic came out with a printout saying something like 'the fault was logged at 98mph in 3rd gear and 6475rpm, 98% throttle' then looked sort of enquiringly at me. I just frowned and said 'hmmm, only 98% throttle you say?'

SM

[Aizle]

My M5 through up a fault and it read the engine speed but not the gear or speed.

This is an E39 though.

[0a]

blueg33 said:

Audi A6 stores info that identifies each key, it then remembers your last radio station, memory seat positions, mirror positions etc. So when I use my key I get radio 4 a low seating position, all door unlock on 1 press of the remote, etc, when mrs B uses her key she gets radio 2, high seat position, drivers door only on 1 press of the remote etc

I see so the police can interrogate it and see if there are any Radio 1 listeners to put behind bars.

[mrmr96]

supermono said:

My M5 threw a fault and went into limp home mid overtake on a s/c road. Luckily it had enough speed to complete the overtake before coasting into a handy layby. Later at the dealer mechanic came out with a printout saying something like 'the fault was logged at 98mph in 3rd gear and 6475rpm, 98% throttle' then looked sort of enquiringly at me. I just frowned and said 'hmmm, only 98% throttle you say?'

SM

Thats class!!

[wolf1]

supermono said:

My M5 threw a fault and went into limp home mid overtake on a s/c road. Luckily it had enough speed to complete the overtake before coasting into a handy layby. Later at the dealer mechanic came out with a printout saying something like 'the fault was logged at 98mph in 3rd gear and 6475rpm, 98% throttle' then looked sort of enquiringly at me. I just frowned and said 'hmmm, only 98% throttle you say?'

SM

That's freeze frame data. It records a snapshot of readings when the ecu flags a fault code to aid any fault diagnosis. It's not a blow by blow account of your last so many minutes of driving etc.

As for keys remembering settings etc it's actually the ecu recognises which key is used and then adjusts seats etc. They are stored on the ecu as key 1, key 2 etc, normally 4 available and you can delete and replace keys for such times as when a key has been lost/stolen etc.

[S3_Graham]

Im not sure in partiucular to the info you were asking about but i can say 100% that BMW keys hold WAAAYYYYYYYY more than alarm data + personal setup items like stereo and seat position.

Saw the print out of my 130 key data whilst it was in for service, had things like water temperature and oil level on it. Had service items also like brake pad life on it also.

[mrmr96]

S3_Graham said:

Im not sure in partiucular to the info you were asking about but i can say 100% that BMW keys hold WAAAYYYYYYYY more than alarm data + personal setup items like stereo and seat position.

Saw the print out of my 130 key data whilst it was in for service, had things like water temperature and oil level on it. Had service items also like brake pad life on it also.

For sure. My mate has an E91 and had all that and a fault code read by the dealer using the key. It is a clever feature as it means the dealer can quickly check things and possibly find extra work by pulling service data off the key. Much more efficient for the service rep to be able to do it there and then, rather than make the customer eat whilst they take a machine out to the car, and then download and print in the office.

But as above, it's snapshot data on the key I believe.

[streaky]

All my car keys store the thumbprint of the last user.

Streaky

[750turbo]

mrmr96 said:

BMW keys store fault codes.
Porche ecu stores over revs.
Both may do other stuff too.

As does MINI and Renault.

Some Renault models contain, tyre pressure, oil level, fuel level, mileage, and possibly other stuff I cannot remember.

Are there not any Service Receptionists on here that could give us the exact info perhaps?

(I know this, as I install the SW on some dealers systems)