Discretion. What does it mean?
Discussion
DISCRETION
So many threads advocate the support of discretion when Police Officers are dealing with Road Traffic Offences.
Discretion means
1).....'the quality of behaving with care and tact so as to avoid embarrassment or distress to other people'
2) Discretion is also freedom and authority to make decisions and take action according to your own judgement.
What does discretion mean to motorists?
According to my experience there should be a third definition!
Discretion means in my view 'let me off'
How many times have I been asked "Officer can you use some discretion over this?"
When what they mean is " Officer can I pursuade you to overlook the facts and let me go without penalty?"
When Police deal with offending behaviour they are using discretion every time they do so.
Nicked/cautioned/advice is discretion in accordance with the two definitions above taken from a dictionary.
Have you ever asked for discretion when in fact you are actually getting it?
So many threads advocate the support of discretion when Police Officers are dealing with Road Traffic Offences.
Discretion means
1).....'the quality of behaving with care and tact so as to avoid embarrassment or distress to other people'
2) Discretion is also freedom and authority to make decisions and take action according to your own judgement.
What does discretion mean to motorists?
According to my experience there should be a third definition!
Discretion means in my view 'let me off'
How many times have I been asked "Officer can you use some discretion over this?"
When what they mean is " Officer can I pursuade you to overlook the facts and let me go without penalty?"
When Police deal with offending behaviour they are using discretion every time they do so.
Nicked/cautioned/advice is discretion in accordance with the two definitions above taken from a dictionary.
Have you ever asked for discretion when in fact you are actually getting it?
gone said:
How many times have I been asked "Officer can you use some discretion over this?"
When what they mean is " Officer can I pursuade you to overlook the facts and let me go without penalty?"
How about:
"Officer can I pursuade you I was driving perfectly safely at 50mph on this 40mph road that was until 6 months ago an NSL road, with no pedestrians, clear visibility, and a car in perfect working order? Can you say that my excess speed was causing a danger to any other road users?"
parrot of doom said:
How many times have I been asked "Officer can you use some discretion over this?"
When what they mean is " Officer can I pursuade you to overlook the facts and let me go without penalty?"
How about:
"Officer can I pursuade you I was driving perfectly safely at 50mph on this 40mph road that was until 6 months ago an NSL road, with no pedestrians, clear visibility, and a car in perfect working order? Can you say that my excess speed was causing a danger to any other road users?"
excess speed is a finite offence, if your speed was causing a danger you could be done for dangerous driving
What dictionary did that come out of ?. It's a wierd defintion
I think this is rather better:
The quality of being discreet; circumspection. See Synonyms at prudence.
Ability or power to decide responsibly.
Freedom to act or judge on one's own: All the decisions were left to our discretion
Main Entry: dis·cre·tion
Pronunciation: dis-'kre-sh&n
Function: noun
: power of free decision or latitude of choice within certain bounds imposed by law <reached the age of discretion> <struck down death penalty provisions administered through unbridled jury discretion —L. H. Tribe>: as a : the power of a judge to use his or her own judgment in making decisions guided by what is fair and equitable and by principles of law —see also ABUSE OF DISCRETION b : the power of a public official or employee to act and make decisions based on his or her own judgment or conscience within the bounds of reason and the law
I think this is rather better:
The quality of being discreet; circumspection. See Synonyms at prudence.
Ability or power to decide responsibly.
Freedom to act or judge on one's own: All the decisions were left to our discretion
Main Entry: dis·cre·tion
Pronunciation: dis-'kre-sh&n
Function: noun
: power of free decision or latitude of choice within certain bounds imposed by law <reached the age of discretion> <struck down death penalty provisions administered through unbridled jury discretion —L. H. Tribe>: as a : the power of a judge to use his or her own judgment in making decisions guided by what is fair and equitable and by principles of law —see also ABUSE OF DISCRETION b : the power of a public official or employee to act and make decisions based on his or her own judgment or conscience within the bounds of reason and the law
cuneus said:
What dictionary did that come out of ?. It's a wierd defintion
It came from my daughters New School Dictionary (English Framework Edition) published by Collins.
I thought that by using this one, more people who post on SPL would understand it (Mrs cat
) cuneus said:
I think this is rather better:
Its sort of the same as mine really
! Pies said:
I never had a problem disussing a traffic offence with any BIB.If after the discussion the BIB decides to take a certain action,then fine he used his discretion.I have never yet seen a gatso use one bit of discretion
I've never had a problem being stopped by BiB either..
50% success rate with Plod, normally after a discussion in the back of comfortable police car (sometimes after watching a video).... 0% success rate being pinged by laser
Discretion...i suppose its the ability to use common sense and apply it fairly to a situation without letting whatever personal feelings you have interfere with the decision you make.
Or is that impartiality?
Whatever, ive never asked for any favours from a traffic cop, and im dammed if im gonna start now.
No quarter asked, none given.
Or is that impartiality?
Whatever, ive never asked for any favours from a traffic cop, and im dammed if im gonna start now.
No quarter asked, none given.
Gone, I think you know very well that when PHer's talk of BIB using discretion, they mean that said officers of the law can use the grey matter to judge the danger of any given situation and act accordingly. The SCP's, for various reasons relating to money and ignorance can use only a single factor to determine safety/danger.
Thus 80mph on a clear dry motorway, BIB can think "perfectly safe, I'll wait for some dickhead to reverse down the hard shoulder or change a tyre on the outside lane" etc. whereas the SCP would think "10mph over the speed limit, his child murdering ass is ours, we will ruin his life for this"
Thus 80mph on a clear dry motorway, BIB can think "perfectly safe, I'll wait for some dickhead to reverse down the hard shoulder or change a tyre on the outside lane" etc. whereas the SCP would think "10mph over the speed limit, his child murdering ass is ours, we will ruin his life for this"
This discretion thing....is a strange one to uphold...
I mean ....if the law is the law...why should we have discretion with motoring offences...
Should we have discretion with theft offences...ie: people be allowed to steal thing upto a certain amount...like £5 for example...so if you nicked several Mars Bars..you'd be ok..but if you lifted a box of Milk Tray, then you'll be arrested...
(sounds daft..but that's discretion)
Why should discretion apply to motoring offences...?
Is it fair that one driver is punished for doing 50mph in a 40mph zone, while another is let off with a warning. Should the sign be 40mph, unless it's quiet, or in the night..etc
I mean ....if the law is the law...why should we have discretion with motoring offences...
Should we have discretion with theft offences...ie: people be allowed to steal thing upto a certain amount...like £5 for example...so if you nicked several Mars Bars..you'd be ok..but if you lifted a box of Milk Tray, then you'll be arrested...
(sounds daft..but that's discretion)
Why should discretion apply to motoring offences...?
Is it fair that one driver is punished for doing 50mph in a 40mph zone, while another is let off with a warning. Should the sign be 40mph, unless it's quiet, or in the night..etc
Flat in Fifth said:
Actually as pointed out on an earlier thread a lot of people get discretion and know nothing whatsoever about it because they were never stopped in the first place.
Interesting view, especially since it is double-edged sword.
My record is being stopped five times in one week (middle-aged male in exotic car). Five stops with five producers. The BiBs discretion stopped at explaining why they had exercised their discretion to stop me.
Streetcop said:
This discretion thing....is a strange one to uphold...
I mean ....if the law is the law...why should we have discretion with motoring offences...
Should we have discretion with theft offences...ie: people be allowed to steal thing upto a certain amount...like £5 for example...so if you nicked several Mars Bars..you'd be ok..but if you lifted a box of Milk Tray, then you'll be arrested...
(sounds daft..but that's discretion)
Why should discretion apply to motoring offences...?
How many people are fined for stealing a mars bar or even a box of milk tray? from my experience it is somewhere between Zero and None, because descretion is used !!!!!! Well its not discretion it is because a £60 fine ant 3 points cannot be handed out it has to go to court and it is not worth it
colinrob said:
How many people are fined for stealing a mars bar or even a box of milk tray? from my experience it is somewhere between Zero and None, because descretion is used !!!!!! Well its not discretion it is because a £60 fine ant 3 points cannot be handed out it has to go to court and it is not worth it
I'm sorry to say colin...but your experience is perhaps in the very distant past or in your mind....
as small amount theft is investigated day in day out...every day...in every town up and down the country...
My colleagues on 'beat' are sent daily to 'offenders detained at Asda for stealing packet of chewing gum'...or 'offender detained in local newsagent for taking magazine'..
If the copper doesn't deal with it properly, he/she will get into the shite for neglect of duty.
If a crime is mentioned when the report is made to the control room operator...An investigation WILL take place, whether the cop or even the complainant likes it or not..
NCRS....The National Crime Recording Standard...
Get up to date, before you post tripe!
Streetcop said:
This discretion thing....is a strange one to uphold...
I mean ....if the law is the law...why should we have discretion with motoring offences...
Should we have discretion with theft offences...ie: people be allowed to steal thing upto a certain amount...like £5 for example...so if you nicked several Mars Bars..you'd be ok..but if you lifted a box of Milk Tray, then you'll be arrested...
(sounds daft..but that's discretion)
Why should discretion apply to motoring offences...?
Is it fair that one driver is punished for doing 50mph in a 40mph zone, while another is let off with a warning. Should the sign be 40mph, unless it's quiet, or in the night..etc
There is a clear difference between the two examples you give. Theft always causes harm. A motoring offence is usually victimless. The law proscribing theft is a simple translation of an accepted moral principle into an enforceable rule. Motoring law is a set of fairly arbitrary rules that attempt to bring about safe motoring. These are necessarily simplistic. Given that they are only a proxy for measuring what we are really interested in, i.e. "Is the driver behaving reasonably?", they must be applied with discretion. To apply them in a rigid manner would be unjust.
Discretion to me means common sense when being dealt with by a TrafPol officer. Sometimes limits are set too low for certain roads at certain times of the day. TrafPol are more educated than most of us when it comes to deciding a sensible and responsible speed for a road but how often to you see that knowledge used? Not that often in my experience, a limit is a limit and you have to stick to it and TrafPol generally use that as their discretion(again in my experience).
Personally I drive at a speed that I see fit whether that's 15-20 in a 30 or 90 on nsl but I have 9 points on my licence all of which I do not consider to have been gained through irresponsible or dangerous driving.
If I drive like a total arse with no regard for other road users or pedestrians then fine, stop me and prosecute me but use discretion when what I'm doing really doesn't harm anyone.
Personally I drive at a speed that I see fit whether that's 15-20 in a 30 or 90 on nsl but I have 9 points on my licence all of which I do not consider to have been gained through irresponsible or dangerous driving.
If I drive like a total arse with no regard for other road users or pedestrians then fine, stop me and prosecute me but use discretion when what I'm doing really doesn't harm anyone.
ATG said:
There is a clear difference between the two examples you give. Theft always causes harm. A motoring offence is usually victimless.
Tell that the the families who's loved ones have been killed by those committing 'motoring offences'
At least 10 people die every day on the UK's roads...nearly always due to someones 'fault'.
Theft doesn't kill in the same numbers as the roads do..
If at least 10 people were murdered by thieves every day; there'd be an outcry from the public. A shame that road deaths seem to mean so little.
In German - we have two words for discretion - "Ermessen" und Gutduenken"
Ermessen ist to to mit estimation und judgement und the other ist to do mit wisdom.
The French use "prudence2 and "sagesse" - both ot which imply caution und wisdom
Thus a wise police officer uses his most prudent und wisest estimation und judgement as to whether to the ton up down emptiest und most deserted M6 was really that dangerous.
Ermessen ist to to mit estimation und judgement und the other ist to do mit wisdom.
The French use "prudence2 and "sagesse" - both ot which imply caution und wisdom
Thus a wise police officer uses his most prudent und wisest estimation und judgement as to whether to the ton up down emptiest und most deserted M6 was really that dangerous.
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