Red Filter Light Accident in Nantwich
Discussion
Not Nantwich, but like this?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3308384,-0.77920...
...this one is a nightmare, because people like to use the second lane at the previous lights to avoid queuing behind traffic turning left, and it's a Wacky Races style slalom between the two sets of lights as the impatient types try to get back into lane 1 to go straight ahead in a relatively short distance. It's also compounded by the fact that there's a set of pedestrian controlled lights half way between the two sets of junction control lights, and it's quite a busy road (A30 to Basingstoke) too.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3308384,-0.77920...
...this one is a nightmare, because people like to use the second lane at the previous lights to avoid queuing behind traffic turning left, and it's a Wacky Races style slalom between the two sets of lights as the impatient types try to get back into lane 1 to go straight ahead in a relatively short distance. It's also compounded by the fact that there's a set of pedestrian controlled lights half way between the two sets of junction control lights, and it's quite a busy road (A30 to Basingstoke) too.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 29th April 23:43
I've never seen a red filter arrow in the UK. I saw some in Reykjavic a few weeks a go, but I've never seen them before or since anywhere else. The general rule is to give way unless there's a green filter arrow. Heck! Even if there is a green filter arrow you should probably keep your brain engaged and drive defensively as there are two junctions near me with green filter arrows where you still have to give way!
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light...
Perhaps the main issue here is that Chris has not read the Highway Code since 1963.
I do not know this specific junction, but I do know that in the NW England it was accepted practice for a right-turn overlap to be signalled by a full-green in advance of the main stage. In 1980 a new broom from was appointed to be in charge of the traffic lights. He came from Hampshire and had an identical accident in his MGB.
Being an expert, he could not accept that he was wrong and so set about changing the area's signalling to the more-conventional form of a main stage followed by a green arrow to assist right turners. The upshot was that there was also a gradual change to signalling the early start with a green arrow and full green, the arrow is extinguished and then the 2-second red/amber to the opposite side is shown. This allows sufficient time for diligent drivers to realise the change.
Looking at the junction, the signals look like a fairly new installation and, so I guess, a fairly recent conversion.
Hopefully, when Chris does his driving course they will point out the error of his ways.
Perhaps the main issue here is that Chris has not read the Highway Code since 1963.
I do not know this specific junction, but I do know that in the NW England it was accepted practice for a right-turn overlap to be signalled by a full-green in advance of the main stage. In 1980 a new broom from was appointed to be in charge of the traffic lights. He came from Hampshire and had an identical accident in his MGB.
Being an expert, he could not accept that he was wrong and so set about changing the area's signalling to the more-conventional form of a main stage followed by a green arrow to assist right turners. The upshot was that there was also a gradual change to signalling the early start with a green arrow and full green, the arrow is extinguished and then the 2-second red/amber to the opposite side is shown. This allows sufficient time for diligent drivers to realise the change.
Looking at the junction, the signals look like a fairly new installation and, so I guess, a fairly recent conversion.
Hopefully, when Chris does his driving course they will point out the error of his ways.
Looking at the Google maps with that single green, I would treat it as a "if safe to proceed" I certainly wouldn't assume I had any right of way or that it was safe to go unless the smaller "filter" green was lit too.
I'm confused what make him think he would have been clear to go based on a single green?
I'm confused what make him think he would have been clear to go based on a single green?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Also in Nantwich, I thought it was going to be about this junction, which has a separate set of lights for the right turn: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0737084,-2.51780...From the description in the other thread, sounds like the guy simply turned right on normal green. He's wrong / been told the wrong thing about the red filter arrow.
What ever the situation, turning in front of on-coming Discovery, which must have been moving at reasonable speed, is pretty stupid. Coming out of Nantwich, the A51 towards Chester turns right and although the lights signal you to turn I'm always ultra cautious there as oncoming traffic approaches at speed around a bend.
I'm dubious about this red filter arrow unless anyone here has actually seen it
There us nothing in the highway code about a red filter arrow, there is red direction arrows but they are only used to denote lights for a certain lane, not for filter.
The green light he had was for straight ahead, the green filter light would have come on when it was safe to turn, before then you have to give way.
Driver error, misinterpreting the signals
There us nothing in the highway code about a red filter arrow, there is red direction arrows but they are only used to denote lights for a certain lane, not for filter.
The green light he had was for straight ahead, the green filter light would have come on when it was safe to turn, before then you have to give way.
Driver error, misinterpreting the signals
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What generally happens at this type of junction in Cheshire is the green for straight on and the green arrow come on together, with the traffic in the opposite direction being held. Then after a few seconds the green arrow goes off (there's no red) and the lights in the opposing direction go green and it becomes a normal two way junction.So he's seen the green arrow but not realised it's gone off. Discovery driver has seen green his side and decided to just drive through - he may not have been stopped at the lights, it's not that busy there, so he could have anticipated the green and been going at some speed.
There's a junction I go straight through quite often in Merseyside where traffic is turning right in front of you and your light goes green but even if you move forward there's no way scousers are going to stop. So it's prudent to pause a few seconds until they're out of the way.
I haven't been to Nantwich for over 25 years, but what is this guff about a RED arrow?
I have never seen such a traffic light in the UK.
The links show the light is either extinguished or displaying a GREEN filter arrow.*
See https://goo.gl/maps/qrAZTjxTwyD2 and https://goo.gl/maps/TVgEai8Fzcm
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of this arrangement around the country.
At the start of the phase the lights will be green for both directions.
Then one set will go red and the green filter comes on for opposing traffic.
* In this case the light for opposing traffic from Millstone Lane will be at red.
In the above scenario the Land Rover driver must have jumped the red light.
Alternatively the Prius driver turned right BEFORE the filter light was lit.
In the latter case he's bang to rights for turning across the path of oncoming traffic.
Anyone on here local to Nantwich who can confirm my hypothesis?
I have never seen such a traffic light in the UK.
The links show the light is either extinguished or displaying a GREEN filter arrow.*
See https://goo.gl/maps/qrAZTjxTwyD2 and https://goo.gl/maps/TVgEai8Fzcm
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of this arrangement around the country.
At the start of the phase the lights will be green for both directions.
Then one set will go red and the green filter comes on for opposing traffic.
* In this case the light for opposing traffic from Millstone Lane will be at red.
In the above scenario the Land Rover driver must have jumped the red light.
Alternatively the Prius driver turned right BEFORE the filter light was lit.
In the latter case he's bang to rights for turning across the path of oncoming traffic.
Anyone on here local to Nantwich who can confirm my hypothesis?
I'm local and know the junction.
It's a standard green and green right arrow signal. Not sure if the green and right arrow show first and then the right filter goes off, but there's nothing funny about the junction.
The local lights near me in Alsager have the same setup. Both the main green signal and also the right arrow illuminate together allowing the traffic turning right to filter while the traffic running in the opposite direction are held. After 10 seconds the right arrow goes out leaving just the main green. The traffic on the other side of the junction can then proceed and the traffic turning right has to give way.
It's a standard green and green right arrow signal. Not sure if the green and right arrow show first and then the right filter goes off, but there's nothing funny about the junction.
The local lights near me in Alsager have the same setup. Both the main green signal and also the right arrow illuminate together allowing the traffic turning right to filter while the traffic running in the opposite direction are held. After 10 seconds the right arrow goes out leaving just the main green. The traffic on the other side of the junction can then proceed and the traffic turning right has to give way.
That's interesting. It's the opposite way round to the phasing I mentioned in my previous post. Most of the ones down my way follow the pattern I described. Both ways first, then the filter goes on. I have no idea what criteria, if any, are used. Maybe it's specific to certain junctions or the general predilection of the relevant Highway Authority's head honcho?
Yellowjack
This could be similar to the lights at the A30/Knoll Rd junction
Sequence is 3 lanes at the A30 road inner two straight ahead, extreme right right turn only
The lights sequence is the IIRC the RH light stndard goes red, red/amber, Green filter for right turns,both sides of the junction,goes on. This lets the right turning traffic go infornt of the staight ahead traffic. Th light then sequences down with the arrow ( gren) going off, then amber then red. Thlightson the LH pole then go through their start sequence with an ahead ( i think)arrow and the main A30 traffic proceeds. Happened to me once when as i was turning right on the green arrow, a LGV who was in the 'middle lane' saw the car on his right move off so he went, right cross my front. I got the finger from him as though it was my fault!!! I understand following a phone call to the traffic manager he was invited in for a chat without the tea and biscuits. There is another right turn first sequence ,again on the A30 but at Ashord middx near the airport.It really is surprising that some drivers seeing a car to the right move off, just go.
If the Nantwich uction is this there are two possible scenarios
1) the the driver of the immaculate contraption went on his filter and the Range Rover did a 'sheep' start from the driver on his right and hit him
2) Pius driver sees the green arrow and passes as it goes out,but takes his time completing his turn lights opposite change for the through traffic and again Rangie boy is quick off the mark and misjudges the speed of the turning prius
Just a thought
This could be similar to the lights at the A30/Knoll Rd junction
Sequence is 3 lanes at the A30 road inner two straight ahead, extreme right right turn only
The lights sequence is the IIRC the RH light stndard goes red, red/amber, Green filter for right turns,both sides of the junction,goes on. This lets the right turning traffic go infornt of the staight ahead traffic. Th light then sequences down with the arrow ( gren) going off, then amber then red. Thlightson the LH pole then go through their start sequence with an ahead ( i think)arrow and the main A30 traffic proceeds. Happened to me once when as i was turning right on the green arrow, a LGV who was in the 'middle lane' saw the car on his right move off so he went, right cross my front. I got the finger from him as though it was my fault!!! I understand following a phone call to the traffic manager he was invited in for a chat without the tea and biscuits. There is another right turn first sequence ,again on the A30 but at Ashord middx near the airport.It really is surprising that some drivers seeing a car to the right move off, just go.
If the Nantwich uction is this there are two possible scenarios
1) the the driver of the immaculate contraption went on his filter and the Range Rover did a 'sheep' start from the driver on his right and hit him
2) Pius driver sees the green arrow and passes as it goes out,but takes his time completing his turn lights opposite change for the through traffic and again Rangie boy is quick off the mark and misjudges the speed of the turning prius
Just a thought
yellowjack said:
Not Nantwich, but like this?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3308384,-0.77920...
...this one is a nightmare, because people like to use the second lane at the previous lights to avoid queuing behind traffic turning left, and it's a Wacky Races style slalom between the two sets of lights as the impatient types try to get back into lane 1 to go straight ahead in a relatively short distance. It's also compounded by the fact that there's a set of pedestrian controlled lights half way between the two sets of junction control lights, and it's quite a busy road (A30 to Basingstoke) too.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3308384,-0.77920...
...this one is a nightmare, because people like to use the second lane at the previous lights to avoid queuing behind traffic turning left, and it's a Wacky Races style slalom between the two sets of lights as the impatient types try to get back into lane 1 to go straight ahead in a relatively short distance. It's also compounded by the fact that there's a set of pedestrian controlled lights half way between the two sets of junction control lights, and it's quite a busy road (A30 to Basingstoke) too.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 29th April 23:43
Flipatron said:
I'm local and know the junction.
It's a standard green and green right arrow signal. Not sure if the green and right arrow show first and then the right filter goes off, but there's nothing funny about the junction.
The local lights near me in Alsager have the same setup. Both the main green signal and also the right arrow illuminate together allowing the traffic turning right to filter while the traffic running in the opposite direction are held. After 10 seconds the right arrow goes out leaving just the main green. The traffic on the other side of the junction can then proceed and the traffic turning right has to give way.
I second this. The prius driver is incorrect, there is no red arrow.It's a standard green and green right arrow signal. Not sure if the green and right arrow show first and then the right filter goes off, but there's nothing funny about the junction.
The local lights near me in Alsager have the same setup. Both the main green signal and also the right arrow illuminate together allowing the traffic turning right to filter while the traffic running in the opposite direction are held. After 10 seconds the right arrow goes out leaving just the main green. The traffic on the other side of the junction can then proceed and the traffic turning right has to give way.
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