RE: Police trash speed cameras policy
Thursday 15th December 2005
Revenue earnerThe latest of 'Police', the Police Federation's in-house publication, has hit out against speed camera policy.
Police trash speed cameras policy
Federation magazine shows depth of feeling
Revenue earner
Alan Gordon, vice chairman of the Police Federation dismissed Government policy on roads policing as 'naive in the extreme' after claims any officer can enforce traffic legislation.
He said: "The irresponsible siting of speed cameras for income generation has been a highly effective means of eroding public support for the police. Their benefits are strictly limited to speeding offences and do nothing to tackle the array of other dangerous driving offences."
He added that the revenue should be ploughed back into policing and not more cameras.
Road safety campaign Safe Speed said that, in August a request issued to the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that no research, nor even any discussion, has been conducted regarding this vital issue.
Campaign founder Paul Smith said: "Damage to the police/public relationship is just one dangerous side effect of the speed camera programme. The government has comprehensively failed to investigate the issues. It appears to have no idea about the damage that is being done. Respect for the police has been nurtured over 150 years. Now it's being squandered daily.
"The government must wake up and take a far broader view of its own policies. Speed cameras are bad for safety and bad for policing."
Image courtesy www.speedcam.co.uk
Discussion
Alan Gordon said:
"The irresponsible siting of speed cameras for income generation has been a highly effective means of eroding public support for the police. Their benefits are strictly limited to speeding offences and do nothing to tackle the array of other dangerous driving offences."
Wise words, mate, but what about mobile scameras manned by the Police?
Last Sunday on A31 Dual Carriageway between Alton and Farnham there was a Hants BiB busy zapping people where a stretch of the outside lane was coned off and a temporary 40 limit in place. No workmen working, just an empty outside lane and very light traffic using the remaining lane. This kind of thing erodes public support for the police too.
Yes, we'd like to see more cops than cameras. As you say, however, we'd like to seem them spending their time "tackling the array of other dangerous driving offences" - not standing there holding the scameras themselves!
Alan Gordon said:
He added that the revenue should be ploughed back into policing and not more cameras.
...
"The government must wake up and take a far broader view of its own policies. Speed cameras are bad for safety and bad for policing."
Point 1: NO! Anything funded by fines becomes dependent on them. That's a crazy idea
Point 2: YES! "Bad for safety"? This guy will be shot by Mr Darling who again said on Today this morning that people are alive today that would have been dead without cameras. I think he said an extra 1700 people, but I'm not certain. He also said the new camera report will take account of RTTM and still show how wonderful they are.
www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=371745&in_page_id=1770
The daily mail story gives you the chance to add your comments. they take a few hours to appear
I feel gordon Brown is upset that the camera partnerships are wasting the money. And he wants to waste it instead!
>> Edited by tony13579 on Thursday 15th December 12:02
The daily mail story gives you the chance to add your comments. they take a few hours to appear
I feel gordon Brown is upset that the camera partnerships are wasting the money. And he wants to waste it instead!
>> Edited by tony13579 on Thursday 15th December 12:02
Peter Ward said:So, lets see, road fatalities have been falling for years, then under speed cameras they level off...so in '04 it was broadly the same as '03. So what he's saying is that without speed cameras DECADES of improvement in road safety would have suddenly reversed?!?
I think he said an extra 1700 people, but I'm not certain.
What utter b'llsh't!
The dumb insolence attitude in police stations irritates me. A while ago, I had cause to take someone's licence and insurance into a police station 'cos they'd been stopped by a patrol car late at night and breathalised. The car was occupied by raucous lads whom the driver was giving a lift to. The driver, also quite young, was totally sober, had been driving correctly, but didn't have his documents with him and was asked to produce them at a local nick. Because of work committments I offered to do it for him and the attitude of the plod behind the counter was very offhand, to say the least, not to say rude. Why, if relations with the public are important, do the plod at the public/police interface behave so curtly, especially when there is no offence to deal with, just 'producing'? I have another experience not as marked, but not exactly 'have a nice day' either - I won't bore you with it though.
daver said:
"The irresponsible siting of speed cameras for income generation has been a highly effective means of eroding public support for the police. Their benefits are strictly limited to speeding offences and do nothing to tackle the array of other dangerous driving offences."
Wise words, mate, but what about mobile scameras manned by the Police?
Last Sunday on A31 Dual Carriageway between Alton and Farnham there was a Hants BiB busy zapping people where a stretch of the outside lane was coned off and a temporary 40 limit in place. No workmen working, just an empty outside lane and very light traffic using the remaining lane. This kind of thing erodes public support for the police too.
Yes, we'd like to see more cops than cameras. As you say, however, we'd like to seem them spending their time "tackling the array of other dangerous driving offences" - not standing there holding the scameras themselves!
Absolutely.
Though this is good stuff, and we hope for more of it from the BiB.
However, the money should not be ploughed back into the Police either. Any system which is fines orientated will end up cheating.
I think the BiB should stop this kind of idiot speed ticketing more or less completely and disassociate from the Scameras more or less completely. A good start would be to stop sending Scamera NIPs out with "XXXX Constabulary" on the top !
motco said:
The dumb insolence attitude in police stations irritates me. A while ago, I had cause to take someone's licence and insurance into a police station 'cos they'd been stopped by a patrol car late at night and breathalised. The car was occupied by raucous lads whom the driver was giving a lift to. The driver, also quite young, was totally sober, had been driving correctly, but didn't have his documents with him and was asked to produce them at a local nick. Because of work committments I offered to do it for him and the attitude of the plod behind the counter was very offhand, to say the least, not to say rude. Why, if relations with the public are important, do the plod at the public/police interface behave so curtly, especially when there is no offence to deal with, just 'producing'? I have another experience not as marked, but not exactly 'have a nice day' either - I won't bore you with it though.
If it's recently it's possible it wasn't 'proper' coppers that dealt with you, quite possibly just front-end jobsworths.
All hot air if you ask me. Police speakup against the Government speed camera policy. Government do nothing about it, the police know this so carry on regardless. When people complain about the Police and there Camera sitings (both fixed & Mobile). "It's nothing to do with us, it's the Government, our hands are tied"
The police look like their on our side while blaming the Government and collecting their cut in fines. Everyones a winner..... except the motorist that is.
The police look like their on our side while blaming the Government and collecting their cut in fines. Everyones a winner..... except the motorist that is.
havoc said:
If it's recently it's possible it wasn't 'proper' coppers that dealt with you, quite possibly just front-end jobsworths.
The first incident was a few years ago and was a 'real' copper. More recently I went to a police station to report a minor shunt that I had inadvertently driven away from (I didn't know contact had been made or I'd have stopped and dealt with the daft bint that did it) and I was seeking advice. The front-of-house woman was civil, pleasant even, but the plod she went to speak to, who was just the other side of an open door, didn't bother to take two strides to speak to me direct. He sent her back with a half-baked answer. Public Service, pah!
>> Edited by motco on Thursday 15th December 13:33
>> Edited by motco on Thursday 15th December 13:34
lucozade said:
It's refreshing to here of this "new" type of view from this lot.
However, it's all too convenient for them to jump on the new bandwagon after all the money has been made.
A rather different view here:
www.polfed.org/1205p9news.pdf
victormeldrew said:
Am I wrong in thinking that the Police are one leg of the Scamera Partnerships?
Much of the time you'd not be wrong in thinking this.
Only today I was passenger in a car going towards Leatherhead (on the A24) and where do you think there was a sneaky Police camera van? On the sharp bend or just after it on the straight? No prizes for guessing it was on the straight, well after the bend.
In the absence of the disastrous camera businesses, I'm sure we'd just get even more saddos sitting in a van all day, or hiding behind bushes intent on trapping as many people as possible. Bad PR by BIB? I think so.
I think it's safe to say, the tide has turned. I'd just like to say a big UP YOURS to Rachel, Vicky and all the other Partnership mouthpieces who defended cameras. The police are at last saying enough, the 'experts' to whom you always referred, remember?
Now let's see what advances can be made now this disasterous campaign begins to wither and die.
Now let's see what advances can be made now this disasterous campaign begins to wither and die.
I'm concerned that they'll decide that 'cameras' aren't working, so scrap the idea of more GATSO's (which they've pretty nearly done anyway). That won't necessarily stop them deploying more vans (and more SPECS?) by stealth...arguing that the vans can respond more quickly or some crap like that. Frankly GATSO's don't worry me that much, it's the van's that scare the **** out of me. And as for SPECS...has me permanently glancing at my speedo - so wrong and so unsafe!!!
And you know they won't dismantle the current crop either...
And you know they won't dismantle the current crop either...
Mrs Meldrew just received a NIP today, and she's spitting feathers!
37 in a 30, mobile van. I was in the car, saw them, check her speed, 30 dead on. I had a rant about what a pack of tw@ts they were, sitting on the exit of a village where the NSL was an unfeasible distance away from the last property in the village. Prime scam territory, they'll catch a few there to flesh out their Christmas bonus I said.
Four days later NIP arrives.
She knows she wasn't speeding, so do I, but now the penny has just dropped for her over exactly what I've been banging on about for so long - it matters not a jot that we both know she wasn't speeding, they say she was and its up to her to prove otherwise; if she doesn't roll over then the fine/points might be worse. It's not fair says she - welcome to the club says I. It wasn't fair when they rolled me either pet!
It's a national disgrace.
37 in a 30, mobile van. I was in the car, saw them, check her speed, 30 dead on. I had a rant about what a pack of tw@ts they were, sitting on the exit of a village where the NSL was an unfeasible distance away from the last property in the village. Prime scam territory, they'll catch a few there to flesh out their Christmas bonus I said.
Four days later NIP arrives.
She knows she wasn't speeding, so do I, but now the penny has just dropped for her over exactly what I've been banging on about for so long - it matters not a jot that we both know she wasn't speeding, they say she was and its up to her to prove otherwise; if she doesn't roll over then the fine/points might be worse. It's not fair says she - welcome to the club says I. It wasn't fair when they rolled me either pet!
It's a national disgrace.
I am not in the Police Federation and I am not their biggest fan, but they are mostly talking a lot of sense here, certainly in terms of the erosion of public support issue. No revenue from cameras should fund the Police. The government's move to have a central pot of camera income is a good one. The SCPs are self-serving little empires which achieve absolutely nothing.
lucozade said:
It's refreshing to here of this "new" type of view from this lot.
However, it's all too convenient for them to jump on the new bandwagon after all the money has been made.
Yep theres more to come yet, how'd ya fancy 20 mph town zones every where drivers will be easy catches for the scamera vans.
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