Merging in Turn
Discussion
Seeing as this topic appears occasionally I thought I'd let you know what I saw today.
On the A206 where the Dartford relief road ends the two lane carriageway becomes one. Today there was a long queue, and when I got to the front I found the lane was blocked as a Rover and a large tipper lprry had managed to collide.
Obviously don't know what had happened but it looked as if someone had not wanted to let the other in. The result was that the front of the rover was level with the lorry's rear wheels, and the rear projecting about 3 feet. It didn't look as if any serious damage had been done to the car, but as they appeared locked together I dread to think what was going to happen when they were seperated.
I also suspect that the insurance companies will see it as knock for knock as I suspect they will argue the car was in the lorry's blind spot.
The only lesson I can suggest learning is that if you want to try to stop someone cutting in front of you do ensure they are at the most the same size as you!
On the A206 where the Dartford relief road ends the two lane carriageway becomes one. Today there was a long queue, and when I got to the front I found the lane was blocked as a Rover and a large tipper lprry had managed to collide.
Obviously don't know what had happened but it looked as if someone had not wanted to let the other in. The result was that the front of the rover was level with the lorry's rear wheels, and the rear projecting about 3 feet. It didn't look as if any serious damage had been done to the car, but as they appeared locked together I dread to think what was going to happen when they were seperated.
I also suspect that the insurance companies will see it as knock for knock as I suspect they will argue the car was in the lorry's blind spot.
The only lesson I can suggest learning is that if you want to try to stop someone cutting in front of you do ensure they are at the most the same size as you!
The Rover probably came hurtling up the outside into the 50 yards of clear road left by others who had filtered-in beforehand. The lorry-driver responded as over 95% of drivers respond ... by closing the gap.
I wasn't there, but I've seen that too many times (and so have you all) to suspect it was anything else.
As to who was in the right ...
Streaky
I wasn't there, but I've seen that too many times (and so have you all) to suspect it was anything else.
As to who was in the right ...
Streaky
It does bug me when drivers leave it to the last minute to pull in. There are usually 500yards of warning signs yet they want to pull in in the last 5.
I must admit that I am one of those drivers who would close a gap (but not so there was a collision). If people pull in in time, then I am more than happy to make space for them.
I must admit that I am one of those drivers who would close a gap (but not so there was a collision). If people pull in in time, then I am more than happy to make space for them.
Yeah but it really bugs me when you have a truck block the outer lane. Why?
Firstly it isn't his job to decide how other should drive and secondly why is it a bad thing to drive in the right hand lane until the end of that lane and then merge with the other traffic?
I'm not talking about barging in just waiting and then pulling across with the help of the other guy.
Firstly it isn't his job to decide how other should drive and secondly why is it a bad thing to drive in the right hand lane until the end of that lane and then merge with the other traffic?
I'm not talking about barging in just waiting and then pulling across with the help of the other guy.
p290 kvp said:
Yeah but it really bugs me when you have a truck block the outer lane. Why?
Firstly it isn't his job to decide how other should drive and secondly why is it a bad thing to drive in the right hand lane until the end of that lane and then merge with the other traffic?
I'm not talking about barging in just waiting and then pulling across with the help of the other guy.
Trucks blocking the outside is one of my all-time hates. WHY????? all it succeeds in doing is extending the length of the tail back. It achieves nothing apart from moving the merge point back from where it was intended. Who the bl*ody hell do they think they are to dictate to other road users - I can't describe how much this annoys me, one day one of them is going to get such a twatting............
Now sitting quietly and doing calming deep breathing exercises
>> Edited by Rotaree on Thursday 13th November 13:02
p290 kvp said:
Yeah but it really bugs me when you have a truck block the outer lane. Why?
Firstly it isn't his job to decide how other should drive and secondly why is it a bad thing to drive in the right hand lane until the end of that lane and then merge with the other traffic?
I'm not talking about barging in just waiting and then pulling across with the help of the other guy.
The reason is that most people do barge in. The 500 yards is there to help merging not to be a clear way for people in a hurry. I appriciate that you may wait for a space and in those circumstances, I would also let you in. But the drivers who nudge in to the other traffic -
So if every one waited till the end, then there would be two lanes of stationary traffic trying to merge instead of 2 lanes of moving traffic.
Posted on the other thread the other day and its all about doing it when relevant. When all 2 or 3 lanes are being used then merging in turn is fine. However, if a queue is present (like everyone is queuing and not using the outside lane) then it is going to incense a few people (not saying this is right or wrong here).... so it is best to go with the circumstances rather than a rule....
Escallating situations with trucks and other cars pushing in is just not worth it. All of the advice you get from the Police etc in these situations is to be appolgetic, say thank you and dont raise the stakes - you really dont know what the other driver will do..... so go with the flow and use the most appropriate technique.
That said, pushing in at the end of a filter lane does create a ripple effect which can cause cars further back in the queue to stop - this further exacerbates the situation and this is where the "w@nker pushed in" stuff comes from...
Oh, and one final comment - just remember that some people might not actually know which lane is to be removed. Been in this situation several times myself - 3 lanes down to 2 and havent got to the signs yet.... end up in the wrong lane and have to push in - cos I didnt know which one was to be reduced! So its harsh to penalise people that genuinely might not have known that their lane is about to disappear.....BUT, deliberate pushing in is not only rude, it causes ripple effect jams - no one is more important than anyone else on the roads....
Escallating situations with trucks and other cars pushing in is just not worth it. All of the advice you get from the Police etc in these situations is to be appolgetic, say thank you and dont raise the stakes - you really dont know what the other driver will do..... so go with the flow and use the most appropriate technique.
That said, pushing in at the end of a filter lane does create a ripple effect which can cause cars further back in the queue to stop - this further exacerbates the situation and this is where the "w@nker pushed in" stuff comes from...
Oh, and one final comment - just remember that some people might not actually know which lane is to be removed. Been in this situation several times myself - 3 lanes down to 2 and havent got to the signs yet.... end up in the wrong lane and have to push in - cos I didnt know which one was to be reduced! So its harsh to penalise people that genuinely might not have known that their lane is about to disappear.....BUT, deliberate pushing in is not only rude, it causes ripple effect jams - no one is more important than anyone else on the roads....
The thing that bugs me most is letting the lead car in some 100 yards from the closure only to have one, two or more cars then zoom along right up to the bollards and then indicate. I've lost count of the number of times I've indicated to be let in, have been able to move partially across and then had someone pull onto the grass strip bordering the central reservation so as to get past me. If they then try to push in ahead of me, how 'Christian' do you think I am ...? - Streaky
Surely in stop-go traffic, by pulling in 100yds before the bollards you are extending the queue by at least 50 at the rear? The traffic should merge where the bollards are - cos that's where they are...
And saying you get signs for 400 yds before the merge, so merge then doesn't make sense... I don't take a right turn on a roundabout 400 yds before the roundabout cos a sign tells me there will be a roundabout in 400 yds...
And saying you get signs for 400 yds before the merge, so merge then doesn't make sense... I don't take a right turn on a roundabout 400 yds before the roundabout cos a sign tells me there will be a roundabout in 400 yds...
If everybody used all the available lanes and merged in turn then there wouldn't be the opportunity for people to race down the empty lane and jump the queue. Why just use one lane and leave 1000 yards of empty tarmac unnecessarily, thus forcing the queueing traffic to be twice as long as it should be, potentially blocking motorway exists and making the problem worse.
If we're turning right at a roundabout we move in to the correct lane in good time, yes? If someone comes careering down the left hand lane then at the last minute tried to 'merge' in front of us to turn right, this is not seen with huge empathy....
This all comes down to the way we British like to have orderly queues, many people think that preparing the queue when there is a lot of space rather than when it's right at the bollards eases the flow of traffic through. People shooting down the 'empty' lane are simply seen as taking advantage of the queuers. This is why people get upset and the truckers sit in the outside lane and still get let in when they reach the bollards.
>> Edited by qwicksylva on Thursday 13th November 14:20
This all comes down to the way we British like to have orderly queues, many people think that preparing the queue when there is a lot of space rather than when it's right at the bollards eases the flow of traffic through. People shooting down the 'empty' lane are simply seen as taking advantage of the queuers. This is why people get upset and the truckers sit in the outside lane and still get let in when they reach the bollards.
>> Edited by qwicksylva on Thursday 13th November 14:20
vladd said:
If everybody used all the available lanes and merged in turn then there wouldn't be the opportunity for people to race down the empty lane and jump the queue. Why just use one lane and leave 1000 yards of empty tarmac unnecessarily, thus forcing the queueing traffic to be twice as long as it should be, potentially blocking motorway exists and making the problem worse.
Exactly
I think the thoughtful driver leaves a one car gap in front and does not drive close to the car in front, so that other drivers can move into the queueing line well before the bollards. If everyone does the same, everyone gets into line early and the traffic then flows more quickly than if there is constant stopping and starting at the head of the queue, which is the real problem in these circumstances.
Another thing I admit to doing is straddling two lanes as the bollards get nearer. This is to encourage drivers to pull in behind me.
Both these techniques do seem to work except for the plonkers that just want to get to the front of the queue come what may. In these cases, the best thing is to let them in and protect your pride and joy: closing the gap is not an option, at least not for me, anyway, 'cos its fibreglass, see?
Simon.
Another thing I admit to doing is straddling two lanes as the bollards get nearer. This is to encourage drivers to pull in behind me.
Both these techniques do seem to work except for the plonkers that just want to get to the front of the queue come what may. In these cases, the best thing is to let them in and protect your pride and joy: closing the gap is not an option, at least not for me, anyway, 'cos its fibreglass, see?
Simon.
vladd said:
If everybody used all the available lanes and merged in turn then there wouldn't be the opportunity for people to race down the empty lane and jump the queue. Why just use one lane and leave 1000 yards of empty tarmac unnecessarily, thus forcing the queueing traffic to be twice as long as it should be, potentially blocking motorway exists and making the problem worse.
I agree. Everyone should use the full capacity of the road as given. Get 2 equal length queues up where the merge point is. Its fair, the traffic is shared equally in the lanes - and then everyone should filter in turn. The problem is that there are polite drivers who join a long queue, and then those who hack up the other lane and pull in. If everyone behaved as the highway code suggests on this, there would be no problem. One of my pet motoring hates along with foglights being on when they shouldn't.
Rotaree said:
Yeah but it really bugs me when you have a truck block the outer lane. Why?
Firstly it isn't his job to decide how other should drive and secondly why is it a bad thing to drive in the right hand lane until the end of that lane and then merge with the other traffic?
I'm not talking about barging in just waiting and then pulling across with the help of the other guy.
Trucks blocking the outside is one of my all-time hates. WHY????? all it succeeds in doing is extending the length of the tail back. It achieves nothing apart from moving the merge point back from where it was intended. Who the bl*ody hell do they think they are to dictate to other road users - I can't describe how much this annoys me, one day one of them is going to get such a twatting............
Now sitting quietly and doing calming deep breathing exercises
>> Edited by Rotaree on Thursday 13th November 13:02
I nearly got stuffed by this a couple of months back. I'd had just left Heathrow about 10.30 one night and gone down the A4 to join the M4 westbound at junction 5.
As I went up the slip road I could see very slow traffic on the Motorway (bummer). Anyhow as I got to the top of the slip road a twerp in a Jag S class came off the nearside lane to take advantage of the slip road (cheeky bugger, illegal crossing of the hatchings).
As I passed him during his manouvre a brain doner driver an Asda Artic moved across (note same illegal manouvre from the n/s lane to cut him off. He was so intent on having his fun he ignored the fact that I was along side him trying to merge and forced me onto the hard shoulder and then the verge.
I souded the horn and saluted him and he acknowleged me holding two fingers up (possibly to indicate that he'd seen me after all and been aiming for two of us with one manouvre).
Anyway the nob had one of those "Am I driving well" stickers on the back of his trailer so I noted his number and phoned in.
I got a reply a couple of weeks later from his manager apologising and saying that a disiplinary note had been placed on his file
JSG said:
Anyway the nob had one of those "Am I driving well" stickers on the back of his trailer so I noted his number and phoned in.
I got a reply a couple of weeks later from his manager apologising and saying that a disiplinary note had been placed on his file
Good to see that they actually do something about it. I know a chap that used to be a warehouse / distribution manager for a large pan-european truck haulage company.... they had those stickers and something like 20% of calls were for trucks that werent anywhere near the alledged offence (GPS tracking in the trucks so proof), a further 60% were praise and only something like 1 in 10 calls were genuine complaints....the rest were just garbage...
[quote=TUS 373]
Get 2 equal length queues up where the merge point is. /quote]
This is what needs to be avoided!
The true merge point is about 100 yards further back from where the bollards are. Folk need to be in line by then, so the traffic can flow through the bottle neck.
Try it! It's really easy and very non-frustrating!
Simon.
Get 2 equal length queues up where the merge point is. /quote]
This is what needs to be avoided!
The true merge point is about 100 yards further back from where the bollards are. Folk need to be in line by then, so the traffic can flow through the bottle neck.
Try it! It's really easy and very non-frustrating!
Simon.
one point to make is this.
Why all the aggro about letting people merge in front of you or not?
To give a ridiculous example in order to give some perspective.
Let us suppose you stop and let 60 cars merge in front of you.
T'other side of delay, and you're all spaced out with two second gaps, (!!) then you're only two minutes later than you would have been.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.
Mind you this merging in turn can create the odd funny moment.
Scene M1 jn, on the island, lane 1 blocked, so all traffic in lanes 1 & 2 having to merge into lane 2. I'm in lane 2, everyone merging wonderfully. Lane 3 is full too and flowing nicely so nowhere for me to go to my right.
Except when it comes to my turn when the TFA in a Golf to my left decides that he is going to follow the car ahead of him and take "my" space.
Fair enough I think and hold back to give him space. No problem, not worth the trouble IMO.
Except when this total moron gets across my bows he stops and glares making all sort of gesticulations. Mrs Fif and I just ignored him and stared neutrally back which just seemed to make him worse.
After a while I make a gesture back at him, open palm facing upwards as in "After you Claude!"
The plonker sets off again and runs into the car in front of him. So now he's waving and gesticulating at the car in front as well as me. Blow me then he sets off and runs into the car in front again.
I just had to sit there stony faced saying to Mrs FiF, "Don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh, FFS do not laugh! this guy is totally unstable"
Ho hum !
Why all the aggro about letting people merge in front of you or not?
To give a ridiculous example in order to give some perspective.
Let us suppose you stop and let 60 cars merge in front of you.
T'other side of delay, and you're all spaced out with two second gaps, (!!) then you're only two minutes later than you would have been.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.
Mind you this merging in turn can create the odd funny moment.
Scene M1 jn, on the island, lane 1 blocked, so all traffic in lanes 1 & 2 having to merge into lane 2. I'm in lane 2, everyone merging wonderfully. Lane 3 is full too and flowing nicely so nowhere for me to go to my right.
Except when it comes to my turn when the TFA in a Golf to my left decides that he is going to follow the car ahead of him and take "my" space.
Fair enough I think and hold back to give him space. No problem, not worth the trouble IMO.
Except when this total moron gets across my bows he stops and glares making all sort of gesticulations. Mrs Fif and I just ignored him and stared neutrally back which just seemed to make him worse.
After a while I make a gesture back at him, open palm facing upwards as in "After you Claude!"
The plonker sets off again and runs into the car in front of him. So now he's waving and gesticulating at the car in front as well as me. Blow me then he sets off and runs into the car in front again.
I just had to sit there stony faced saying to Mrs FiF, "Don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh, FFS do not laugh! this guy is totally unstable"
Ho hum !
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