Police too busy!
Discussion
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself.
V6Pushfit said:
the police shift patterns are so ludicrous no officer has ownership of a case as its quickly handed over to someone else
The police need to available 24/7 and the shift patterns reflect this and are mathematically based around demand. The opposite of ludicrous. La Liga said:
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself
No I haven't. All police I've encountered in their professional capacity are useless (IMO). No it isn't. Alleged lacking in consistency doesn't detract from someone else's illiterate posts.
Greendubber said:
Yes you have.
My opinion hasn't changed. It's very unlikely to as well. The police are rubbish (my opinion based on ones I've encountered) - if you're not, then don't take it personally. I suppose you could always try changing tack by saying squaddies can't read/kill innocent people etc.It only confirms my belief that police officers are stupid.
Greendubber said:
I didnt say your opinion had changed, I've read your post and disagreed with you but agreed with the points made by Cat and La Liga.
You're like a broken record, I think everyone is well aware of your opinion as you've repeated about 300 times so I think we get the very repetative message.
You're being inconsistent now. A well practised tactic from your profession I'm afraid. You're like a broken record, I think everyone is well aware of your opinion as you've repeated about 300 times so I think we get the very repetative message.
I asked a question regarding 5700 absentees in 2015. It seems a proportion of these are on suspension.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/the-shocking-tr...
How long does an officer face being suspended for if they are accused of, let's say, theft?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/the-shocking-tr...
How long does an officer face being suspended for if they are accused of, let's say, theft?
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself
No I haven't. All police I've encountered in their professional capacity are useless (IMO).bmw535i said:
No it isn't. Alleged lacking in consistency doesn't detract from someone else's illiterate posts.
I didn't say it detracted.bmw535i said:
How long does an officer face being suspended for if they are accused of, let's say, theft?
134.54624 days. Keep up the Googling, although you actually forming a point that carries weight and validity yourself would be refreshing.
I'm not ignoring my own "generalisations" that people have quoted. I know what I've said.
It's a genuine question about the suspensions. As was the question about how many officers have been fired for failing fitness tests. If you can't answer them I have to make my own assumptions or rely on information in the public forum
It's a genuine question about the suspensions. As was the question about how many officers have been fired for failing fitness tests. If you can't answer them I have to make my own assumptions or rely on information in the public forum
La Liga said:
he police need to available 24/7 and the shift patterns reflect this and are mathematically based around demand. The opposite of ludicrous.
4 early shifts 4 late shifts and 4 days off. Great for a factory but totally useless otherwise and doesn't help with appalling communication.
Example: waiting for a phone call from bib (for confirmation of forensic visit) missed call but it came through as usual as unknown number with no message. So can't phone back without half an hour going through the usual system and being told the case officer is on leave till next week they don't know who rang. Then 4 days later after more phone calls another officer says case notes say forensics aren't coming after all ('not worth it unlikely to yield results etc'). Then 3 days later forensics appear out of the blue and are surprised we aren't expecting them.
A completely inefficient and disorganised muddle
Greendubber said:
What shift pattern would you suggest?
I remember asking him last time he mentioned shift patterns. You'll be amazed, I'm sure, to hear no suggestion was forthcoming. V6Pushfit said:
La Liga said:
he police need to available 24/7 and the shift patterns reflect this and are mathematically based around demand. The opposite of ludicrous.
4 early shifts 4 late shifts and 4 days off. Great for a factory but totally useless otherwise and doesn't help with appalling communication.
A completely inefficient and disorganised muddle.
If you've not seen the analysis (I presume you haven't) how can you conclude it's 'completely inefficient'?
V6Pushfit said:
Example: waiting for a phone call from bib (for confirmation of forensic visit) missed call but it came through as usual as unknown number with no message. So can't phone back without half an hour going through the usual system and being told the case officer is on leave till next week they don't know who rang. Then 4 days later after more phone calls another officer says case notes say forensics aren't coming after all ('not worth it unlikely to yield results etc'). Then 3 days later forensics appear out of the blue and are surprised we aren't expecting them.
What does any of that have to do with shift patterns?bmw535i said:
Did you? I can't see that anywhere. I also asked if any officers who had been fired for this reason would be replaced. I don't see an answer for that either.
The annual fitness test with consequences for failure is new so I don't think there's been time for anyone to go through the process fully yet. Any officer leaving for any reason contributes to the on-going assessment for recruitment.
V6Pushfit said:
^ it's totally inefficient that's my point. The Police have made themselves remote, uncontactable, and keen on avoiding. All the stations are closed around here so it's pretty much lawless.
How's it 'totally inefficient' when it'll be designed around demand and available resources? You can't just say 'totally inefficient' and it be so. Especially to those who actually know what they are talking about.
Shift patterns - its not up to me but I think the shift patterns are a hangover of bygone days, probably negotiated by the unions with a view to maximising incomes. I would be interested to see what happens with a 5 day week day and night shift alternating every 2 weeks with very second weekend.
To look at it from the public side its a nightmare dealing with Attending Officer A on Monday morning, to find hes off in the afternoon so contact him Tuesday to find hes off Wednesday for 4 days so cant get involved, then have to contact Officer B who needs briefing and then contact them again Wednesday morning to find that they are not in as doing late shifts from Tuesday so contact Wednesday afternoon to be told he's given the case to Officer C who is on the last day before 4 days off and nothing is progressed form the case notes, so Officer D gets involved but by then Officer A is nearly back so there's no point in Officer D doing anything. Officer A gets back but no one knows his shift but eventually he does something - gives it to Officer E who is on earlies but on the last day of these.....and on it went with no one taking ownership or progressing.
As I said before this particular case was substantial cash theft and it took 13 weeks to interview the two suspects by which time one had left the country anyway. They were only interviewed when the Superintendant got involved, and he said he was ashamed of the way the case had been handled. All this and Officers A to D had still not investigated anything at all, not even looked up the plate of the car involved and details given to them in the first minute of attending. We were told they would look at the suspects mobile phones and that was retracted and told they would visit the suspects at home and that never happened. After the interview Officer E (who had no knowledge of the case) visited us for 3 hours in an attempt to close the case as the suspect had 'seemed innocent' at interview' - not based on anything other than the views of the interviewing officer (Officer F who also had no prior involvement). We had no choice other than to agree to close it and I doubt it ever went on record that it was an unsolved crime.
And all this with only us ringing the police, as all incoming calls to us were 'unknown number', navigating through recorded messages and menus the first of which was if we wanted to book a custody suite. How many calls a day from the public have booking a custody suite as the priority??
To look at it from the public side its a nightmare dealing with Attending Officer A on Monday morning, to find hes off in the afternoon so contact him Tuesday to find hes off Wednesday for 4 days so cant get involved, then have to contact Officer B who needs briefing and then contact them again Wednesday morning to find that they are not in as doing late shifts from Tuesday so contact Wednesday afternoon to be told he's given the case to Officer C who is on the last day before 4 days off and nothing is progressed form the case notes, so Officer D gets involved but by then Officer A is nearly back so there's no point in Officer D doing anything. Officer A gets back but no one knows his shift but eventually he does something - gives it to Officer E who is on earlies but on the last day of these.....and on it went with no one taking ownership or progressing.
As I said before this particular case was substantial cash theft and it took 13 weeks to interview the two suspects by which time one had left the country anyway. They were only interviewed when the Superintendant got involved, and he said he was ashamed of the way the case had been handled. All this and Officers A to D had still not investigated anything at all, not even looked up the plate of the car involved and details given to them in the first minute of attending. We were told they would look at the suspects mobile phones and that was retracted and told they would visit the suspects at home and that never happened. After the interview Officer E (who had no knowledge of the case) visited us for 3 hours in an attempt to close the case as the suspect had 'seemed innocent' at interview' - not based on anything other than the views of the interviewing officer (Officer F who also had no prior involvement). We had no choice other than to agree to close it and I doubt it ever went on record that it was an unsolved crime.
And all this with only us ringing the police, as all incoming calls to us were 'unknown number', navigating through recorded messages and menus the first of which was if we wanted to book a custody suite. How many calls a day from the public have booking a custody suite as the priority??
Edited by V6Pushfit on Thursday 26th May 10:11
mph1977 said:
how long is a piece of string ? depends how long it takes for the criminal offence to come to court and after court how long it takes the service to convene the discip ...
I suspect you won't like the answer regardless
and I suspect you won't get the irony of the 'need' to suspend people due to pressure from curtain twitchers ...
I think they should be dismissed instantly I suspect you won't like the answer regardless
and I suspect you won't get the irony of the 'need' to suspend people due to pressure from curtain twitchers ...
Speaking with a Northern force last year they usually had two officers covering well over 1000 square miles including a number of towns. they commented that if the ratepayers and more affluent areas knew that there would be uproar.
Rightly or wrongly it gives the impression of seat of the pants stuff.
There's a local couple here I know who were attacked on a quiet Sunday walk by a female drug addict and all caught on CCTV, and a witness knew her. Broken collarbone and stitches to arms of both. 10 days later the victims were told the bib didn't know who the attacker was (yet the witness had given bib full details at the time). Bib hadnt looked any further into it. Eventually the victims had to make big efforts to push for updates and were then told no further action was being taken 'as the attacker was known to them and had children so any action against her would risk children into care'. Victims advised to take court action themselves, which they are now doing.
Rightly or wrongly it gives the impression of seat of the pants stuff.
There's a local couple here I know who were attacked on a quiet Sunday walk by a female drug addict and all caught on CCTV, and a witness knew her. Broken collarbone and stitches to arms of both. 10 days later the victims were told the bib didn't know who the attacker was (yet the witness had given bib full details at the time). Bib hadnt looked any further into it. Eventually the victims had to make big efforts to push for updates and were then told no further action was being taken 'as the attacker was known to them and had children so any action against her would risk children into care'. Victims advised to take court action themselves, which they are now doing.
V6Pushfit said:
Shift patterns - its not up to me but I think the shift patterns are a hangover of bygone days, probably negotiated by the unions with a view to maximising incomes. I would be interested to see what happens with a 5 day week day and night shift alternating every 2 weeks with very second weekend.
You're criticising shift patterns and then suggesting one in the same paragraph. - A 5 day week means 8 hour shifts.
- Alternating between nights and days means you only have 16 hours of the day covered (with no overlap).
What happens to the rest?
I think that'd be enough to shoot that one down, but I'll add you've grossly under-weighted weekend cover so are not aligning resources to demand.
50% weekend working isn't sufficient. For example a lot of patterns will have officers working 70% of weekends (not necessarily both Saturday and Sunday) to meet (or try to meet) demand, to give you an idea of the disproportionate amount of weekend demand. Weekends have higher demand for things like annual leave, too.
Can we start with a pattern which actually covers 24/7 - assuming you actually acknowledge this is necessary, or hopefully of fundamental importance.
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