Police and Crime Commissioner absolute farce.
Discussion
ClaphamGT3 said:
So many posts in this section from policemen and women make clear that transformation is desparately needed yet, so often, its those same officers who want to throw rocks at those trying to make change possible.
As I have said so often, the police really have to change their attitude; the longer they leave it before meaningfully engaging in the debate about the future of policing, the more certain it is that politicians will shape the future of policing for them
This post shows how little you understand.As I have said so often, the police really have to change their attitude; the longer they leave it before meaningfully engaging in the debate about the future of policing, the more certain it is that politicians will shape the future of policing for them
The police service is not a democracy. Policy decisions are made by the bosses, often with a political agenda. The troops toe the line. These days it is more about stats and response times than providing a "service". Front line officers do the best they can.
There is no debate.
Elroy Blue said:
IainT said:
I wonder how Sweden can seemingly do more with the same of less..?
Perhaps they are not viewed as Society's sticking plaster, have 'specialist services' (mental health, child support agencies etc) that don't knock off at 5pm and weekends and have a more robust approach to Facebook rubbish. We've just had a call from someone who found a used hypodermic syringe. They rang Environmental health who said 'nothing to do with us, call the Police'. They then rang the local drug support centre who said 'nothing to do with us, call the Police'. So under the 'it'll be the Police's fault if someone pricks themselves', a patrol has had to be dispatched to the address, pick up the syringe and take it for disposal. This has taken an hour. An hour when that Office could have been investigating crime.
The Police are an organisation who are not allowed to say no. Even when the ones that should be dealing can't be bothered.
Stray dogs anyone?
Lost property and management of the NMPR? Avon and Somerset apparently receive 42,000 reports of lost property a year which takes 1,000 man days to process.
But then according the Home Sec the only target is crime.
I forgot to add that despite the above I still have trouble rationalising the figures.
For example the numbers I quoted some posts above above not only include the SKL (Forensics) as mentioned in addition to the Investigation and Public Order Departments, but also the Academy and the RKP (National Crime Investigation Department) however have excluded (I hopek) the 1,000 employed by the Säkerhetspolisen (Security Services and CTU) as otherwise it just gets too complicated. I think these numbers also exclude those involved with Europol and Tispol, and other International co-operations.
Edited by FiF on Wednesday 24th October 19:09
Red 4 said:
This post shows how little you understand.
The police service is not a democracy. Policy decisions are made by the bosses, often with a political agenda. The troops toe the line. These days it is more about stats and response times than providing a "service". Front line officers do the best they can.
There is no debate.
"The Police" refers to the institution not individualsThe police service is not a democracy. Policy decisions are made by the bosses, often with a political agenda. The troops toe the line. These days it is more about stats and response times than providing a "service". Front line officers do the best they can.
There is no debate.
Two snippets out today which are very strong on the rumour train.
1. The lovely Tom Winsor is being measured for his Police Chiefs uniform. The ex rail regulator, never been in the Police Chiefs uniform.
2. He is looking for a 'dignified' way out of the HMIC role. One can only assume that seeing the reality of what his 'reforms' combined with 20% cuts are having, he's thought "oh crap!"
It will be interesting to see if these are reality.
1. The lovely Tom Winsor is being measured for his Police Chiefs uniform. The ex rail regulator, never been in the Police Chiefs uniform.
2. He is looking for a 'dignified' way out of the HMIC role. One can only assume that seeing the reality of what his 'reforms' combined with 20% cuts are having, he's thought "oh crap!"
It will be interesting to see if these are reality.
Elroy Blue said:
Two snippets out today which are very strong on the rumour train.
1. The lovely Tom Winsor is being measured for his Police Chiefs uniform. The ex rail regulator, never been in the Police Chiefs uniform.
2. He is looking for a 'dignified' way out of the HMIC role. One can only assume that seeing the reality of what his 'reforms' combined with 20% cuts are having, he's thought "oh crap!"
It will be interesting to see if these are reality.
He'll probably end up working for G4S in some kind of advisor role1. The lovely Tom Winsor is being measured for his Police Chiefs uniform. The ex rail regulator, never been in the Police Chiefs uniform.
2. He is looking for a 'dignified' way out of the HMIC role. One can only assume that seeing the reality of what his 'reforms' combined with 20% cuts are having, he's thought "oh crap!"
It will be interesting to see if these are reality.
Oh, hang on ... I think he's already doing that
streaky said:
.
I wonder how many of our politicians, in their endless search for new punitive initiatives, have realised that putting more police on the beat increases the chances of detection which, oddly enough, is what our criminals fear the most."
Streaky
I think the chances of detection would be increased if investment was made in technology / readily available databases.I wonder how many of our politicians, in their endless search for new punitive initiatives, have realised that putting more police on the beat increases the chances of detection which, oddly enough, is what our criminals fear the most."
Streaky
Just flooding the ground with bodies isn't the answer.
Senior descision makers have little concept of the value these commercially available databases can provide because they don't understand the technology.
Henry
Henry-F said:
streaky said:
.
I wonder how many of our politicians, in their endless search for new punitive initiatives, have realised that putting more police on the beat increases the chances of detection which, oddly enough, is what our criminals fear the most."
Streaky
I think the chances of detection would be increased if investment was made in technology / readily available databases.I wonder how many of our politicians, in their endless search for new punitive initiatives, have realised that putting more police on the beat increases the chances of detection which, oddly enough, is what our criminals fear the most."
Streaky
Just flooding the ground with bodies isn't the answer.
Senior descision makers have little concept of the value these commercially available databases can provide because they don't understand the technology.
Henry
But perhaps you'd prefer more cameras; a repeal of RIPA; interception of everybody's telephone calls, emails and post; covert surveillance of all conversations; etc., etc., etc.; ... and maybe even Predators patrolling the skies over our homes.
Streaky
streaky said:
There is no substitute for "eyes on the ground".
There can be no argument against that. Patrolling officers cultivate informants. That might sound a bit cloak and dagger but in fact what it means is talking to people, making them feel confident enough to put what they have seen to you. They tell you their problems, you sort some of them and they feel grateful. They then supply you with that critical information.I was doing door to door and knocked ont he door of a bloke whom I knew as a guard at premises on my beat. He actually had no info, being at work when it happened, but he asked around. Those who refused to talk to strange police officers were more than willing to talk to him. He then told me and the info led to an arrest.
The stats suggest patrolling officers see very little crime. The stats are wrong.
Once you take patrolling officers from the streets then the cultivation, the confidence, goes. Has gone?
As the day of voting for the PCCs dawns, I checked my local Police Authority website.
It contains information for candidates.
It contains information about the process of electing a PCC?
It contains NO information about candidates!
It has a link to a page on the Police Federation website for more information about candidates in the UK. That returns a 404 error - "Page not found".
I guess even they don't care.
I'm still undecided whether to write "None of these" on my ballot paper, tear it up, or vote for the BNP candidate.
That last option isn't open, though ... and was a joke.
Streaky
It contains information for candidates.
It contains information about the process of electing a PCC?
It contains NO information about candidates!
It has a link to a page on the Police Federation website for more information about candidates in the UK. That returns a 404 error - "Page not found".
I guess even they don't care.
I'm still undecided whether to write "None of these" on my ballot paper, tear it up, or vote for the BNP candidate.
That last option isn't open, though ... and was a joke.
Streaky
SMGB said:
joebongo said:
Do we need polling cards? We haven't got any and are on the electoral register.
If you sre in an area where there is an election you do not need a polling card. I have mine and will be off to vote UKIP then indie within 1/2h.
We have a Tory, Labour and an Indy. I was going to vote for the Indy in order to keep the Tory out (a party that has taken two years to decimate the Police force).
The local paper had an article asking them all the same questions and all showed themselves to be equally clueless.
The best quotes that they all come out with is that they will 'cut crime' (no stating HOW) and that they will put 'more bobbies on the beat'. I'd like to know where these 'bobbies' are coming from. Numbers are being butchered and what there is is having to backfill to Office roles to cover the essential jobs previously done by now redundant civilan staff.
Every one of them is a lying, clueless, oxygen thief. In fact, a typical politician. I will not be adding to the turnout in this dangerous farce.
The local paper had an article asking them all the same questions and all showed themselves to be equally clueless.
The best quotes that they all come out with is that they will 'cut crime' (no stating HOW) and that they will put 'more bobbies on the beat'. I'd like to know where these 'bobbies' are coming from. Numbers are being butchered and what there is is having to backfill to Office roles to cover the essential jobs previously done by now redundant civilan staff.
Every one of them is a lying, clueless, oxygen thief. In fact, a typical politician. I will not be adding to the turnout in this dangerous farce.
Henry-F said:
I think the chances of detection would be increased if investment was made in technology / readily available databases.
Just flooding the ground with bodies isn't the answer.
Senior descision makers have little concept of the value these commercially available databases can provide because they don't understand the technology.
Henry
Henry, with the greatest repect. If I've read your post correctly, either you have your hands in pots that can sell such technology to the Police, or that statement is unbelievable naive or out of touch.Just flooding the ground with bodies isn't the answer.
Senior descision makers have little concept of the value these commercially available databases can provide because they don't understand the technology.
Henry
I'd prefer to believe the latter.
Derek Smith said:
There can be no argument against that. Patrolling officers cultivate informants. That might sound a bit cloak and dagger but in fact what it means is talking to people, making them feel confident enough to put what they have seen to you. They tell you their problems, you sort some of them and they feel grateful. They then supply you with that critical information.
I was doing door to door and knocked ont he door of a bloke whom I knew as a guard at premises on my beat. He actually had no info, being at work when it happened, but he asked around. Those who refused to talk to strange police officers were more than willing to talk to him. He then told me and the info led to an arrest.
The stats suggest patrolling officers see very little crime. The stats are wrong.
Once you take patrolling officers from the streets then the cultivation, the confidence, goes. Has gone?
I was doing door to door and knocked ont he door of a bloke whom I knew as a guard at premises on my beat. He actually had no info, being at work when it happened, but he asked around. Those who refused to talk to strange police officers were more than willing to talk to him. He then told me and the info led to an arrest.
The stats suggest patrolling officers see very little crime. The stats are wrong.
Once you take patrolling officers from the streets then the cultivation, the confidence, goes. Has gone?
Not sure if we are luckier than some - but our independent candidate seems better qualified than the others... and NO political affiliation.
Interestingly, I have asked people what they know about the Police Authority - only to be met with blank looks!
The successful candidates are going to get a shock I think.
Ever since the idea of merging forces was mooted - engaged and then abandoned, it has become clear to me that policing is now a BUSINESS.
Take the funding of speed cameras, and the grasping of Speed Awareness Courses as a means of keeping money "in house" rather than allowing it to go to the Treasury in the form of fines!
I have noticed that a lot of our community police are engaged in fundraising as much as policing - applying for grants etc. and taking part in projects because they are funded externally!
Our independent candidate seems to be the only one who has grasped that concept, and comes with business experience high on the list of bullet points.
However, I fear the Liberal candidate will get in, because they have lavished money on ensuring their candidate has the best publicity - leaflet through the door this morning before we were up - several leaflets in past weeks, and signs on the side of the road.
Interestingly, I have asked people what they know about the Police Authority - only to be met with blank looks!
The successful candidates are going to get a shock I think.
Ever since the idea of merging forces was mooted - engaged and then abandoned, it has become clear to me that policing is now a BUSINESS.
Take the funding of speed cameras, and the grasping of Speed Awareness Courses as a means of keeping money "in house" rather than allowing it to go to the Treasury in the form of fines!
I have noticed that a lot of our community police are engaged in fundraising as much as policing - applying for grants etc. and taking part in projects because they are funded externally!
Our independent candidate seems to be the only one who has grasped that concept, and comes with business experience high on the list of bullet points.
However, I fear the Liberal candidate will get in, because they have lavished money on ensuring their candidate has the best publicity - leaflet through the door this morning before we were up - several leaflets in past weeks, and signs on the side of the road.
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