Unwittingly bought an ex-rental car and the law on this?

Unwittingly bought an ex-rental car and the law on this?

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baccalad

Original Poster:

220 posts

116 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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Cooperman said:
Am I alone in not understanding what the op is upset about. He has bought a car which he admits he likes driving. It is reliable, except for the 'box which was changed after he had done c.22k miles in it himself at no cost to him.
What does it matter what it was used for prior to him buying it. It could have been a single owner/user driving it and abusing the gearbox, revving it from cold, abusing the clutch or auto box, driving over unmade roads at speed, but presumably he wouldn't have minded as it would have been one owner/driver.
Most people hiring cars drive them no differently from their own cars and hire cars are usually sold off after a very short period and at low mileage.
I dunno if you missed my last post? But anywho I can see where you're coming from but then again I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.

t400ble

1,804 posts

122 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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Any car bought used could have had some stick.
Quit worrying.
Next time buy new and insist you pick it up at the end of the production line.

Fizpop

332 posts

170 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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Another ex-rental owner. When the V5 came back on my previous car I was horrified to see 'Hertz' as the previous owner, nothing as cryptic as the OPs case.

Like him the thought of loads of folks ragging the car about filled me with absolute dread but, as previously mentioned, that probably isn't the case.

My car was one year old when I bought it, and in reality, who sells a one year old vehicle with 12k on it?
There isn't that many folk around who can afford to do that every year, so of course it's corporate.

Most people are not gear heads or hoons. Most people who hire cars (which isn't a cheap affair and has big penalities for damaage) do so for a reason.

Even if some of the users gave it some stick, the majority won't have, and as mentioned - a car where some users have might have mistreated it - but it's been maintained regardless of cost is better than the one owner car that's been ragged 5 miles to work everyday.

My car gave me 60k of good service. It's past never gave cause for comment - apart from the bodywork and interor which was immaculate when I got it from being cleaned pretty much weekly.

If the cars a good'un put it to the back of your mind - it will make no difference in the long run.

oldnbold

1,280 posts

147 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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baccalad said:
But you all have to concede though that the dealer is just as much if not more in the wrong than me, they should know better, and POSSIBLY, although there's no way of knowing, took advantage of my inexperience in that I didn't make many checks and ask a lot of questions.
Without going back to your first post and looking, I think the dealer you named is part of a large group. In which case the used stock will probably have been purchased in bulk centrally and then send out to the various sites.
The site in question may well sell 75-100 used cars per month, do you realy expect the salesman to have knowledge of each car on site? Unless you request exact detail on its history why would he waste time in digging out all the docs?

Anyway Op lesson learned, if specific things are important to you then you need to ask at the time of purchase and not assume that someone is going to point out every detail about the car to you. Unfortunatly you seem to have developed the "its not my fault, somebody should have told me" attitude that so many in this country have.

threespires

4,302 posts

212 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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I'd not be too concerned by an ex hire car. As has been mentioned, they are well maintained and I'd imagine most drivers of them could in unfamiliar surroundings and would be concentrating more on where they are going than thrashing the car.
I wouldn't like to buy dealership's ex service loan car though, they really get a beating.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
quotequote all
baccalad said:
I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.
This. Absolutely 100% this. That "one private owner" car could have been doing donuts round every McDonalds car park in the land for all the next owner knows. Granted the odds are probably worse that a rental car has been given some stick, but it's no guarantee.

ging84

8,970 posts

147 months

Wednesday 8th October 2014
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pork911 said:
I can't see that you have.

Also, who are you, the OPs alternate user name?
I don't think you understood my post at all

I was not trying to be on the OPs side, if anything the opposite, i was trying to highlight that although on the face of it the guidance does suggest the dealers doing this are acting illegally, the reality is far more complicated.

eccles

13,746 posts

223 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
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charltjr said:
baccalad said:
I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.
This. Absolutely 100% this. That "one private owner" car could have been doing donuts round every McDonalds car park in the land for all the next owner knows. Granted the odds are probably worse that a rental car has been given some stick, but it's no guarantee.
A neighbours son had a Saxo as a first car, and that's exactly what he did with it. Big alloys, dumped suspension, stupid exhaust, all the usual stuff that kids do these days to their cars. He was spoken to several times by plod regarding doing burnouts and hand brake turns etc in the local car park.
He kept all the original bits and put the car back to standard when he sold it..... you'd never know to look at it that it had been ragged. He now does the same thing but in an Astra coupe.

jkh112

22,212 posts

159 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
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When I bought my wife a car from the local main dealer, there were six cars of the same spec to choose from. They were all 12 months old, had very similar registration numbers and had mileages varying between 8000 and 12000.
At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.

Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!

Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 9th October 19:56

s3fella

10,524 posts

188 months

Friday 10th October 2014
quotequote all
baccalad said:
But you all have to concede though that the dealer is just as much if not more in the wrong than me...
No, it's entirely your fault.

And you are worrying over nothing. If you don't want to buy a car that someone else may have 'thrashed', try a new one, (although have you seen how they drive them on and off the boats at import?)

Soov535

35,829 posts

272 months

Friday 10th October 2014
quotequote all
hora said:
jkh112 said:
When I bought my wife a car from the local main dealer, there were six cars of the same spec to choose from. They were all 12 months old, had very similar registration numbers and had mileages varying between 8000 and 12000.
At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.

Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!

Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 9th October 19:56
Pretty much the same as me with the Focus I bought. The (different) issue is (it seems) the OP didn't even bother enquiring about the (any) service history etc at the time.
It's just a classic case of buyer's regret.

Before you spend several grand, at least read the paperwork.

Duh.

Rigsbyscat

1 posts

97 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
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I think the latest ruling by the ASA will may assist in settling this argument as to whether it breaches 2008 Consumer Protection Regs gentlemen. I think you’ll find it does

https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...

Regards

Rigsbyscat

HTP99

22,642 posts

141 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
The problem is how do you prove that the previous owner of the used car you purchased was mis-represented by the supplying dealer and what about cars with 3 or 4 owners on them, with the first being a a rental company which won't be on the registration document.

The whole thing is a joke.

We have now re-worded all of our ads with the addition of where the car originated from:

  • Dealer demo
  • Motability
  • Rental
  • Private
  • Courtesy car
  • Manufacturers demo
  • Manufacturers company car
  • Fleet

CAPP0

19,645 posts

204 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
I do hope that the OP hasn't been fretting over what to do about this for 3.5 years!

S11Steve

6,374 posts

185 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
Rigsbyscat said:
I think the latest ruling by the ASA will may assist in settling this argument as to whether it breaches 2008 Consumer Protection Regs gentlemen. I think you’ll find it does

https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...

Regards

Rigsbyscat
It settles nothing at the moment - it's simply advice, and a lot of the text is vague in that it says people "could" get compo, "may" be entitled etc.

The actual ruling relates to a vehicle that was used by Fiat Chrysler Auto themselves though, and whether it had multiple users or not, and whether this has any bearing on the consumer being able to make an informed decision.

The full text of the ruling is here - https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/glyn-hopkin-ltd-and...

The arguble point that still needs to be tested in court though, is whether a multiple user fleet car is any worse, or even better, than a one user privately owned vehicle.
As discussed on another thread ( https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ), there is a lot of conjecture around the subject. A business has a duty of care to it's employees and customers, therefore the vehicle should be well serviced, safe and compliant at al times.
Also, what distinguishes a fleet vehicle? My company supplies thousands of vehicles into fleets each year. As far as we are concerned, the vehicle is allocated to one customer, however if that customer lets one person drive that vehicle, or one hundred different people is not known to us.

Similarly, a PCH or PCP vehicle is still technically a rental, but is typically only driven by one person.

But a true "rental" vehicle that you could get at the airport will be checked each and every time the vehicle is hired out - tyres, fluids, service history etc, again it is a duty of care to the customer. Does every private vehicle get checked as often?

Until some cases get in front of a judge this is still all up in the air, but I can imagine that the fleet industry will have rather deep pockets to fund legal bills.

Edited by S11Steve on Thursday 11th January 16:35

Immortalisation

Original Poster:

220 posts

116 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!

It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.

Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.

HTP99

22,642 posts

141 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
Immortalisation said:
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!

It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.

Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
Why do you feel that and ex rental is worth less than a privately owned car?

S11Steve

6,374 posts

185 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
The other question is whether a dealer would know who the previous keeper was, and what the use of the vehicle was.

Enterprise Rent a Car have abbreviated the registered keeper to ERAC, which is well known, but if Little Village Car Rental or Big City Vehicle Hire abbreviated to LVCR or BCVH on the V5, would this be as obvious?

Immortalisation

Original Poster:

220 posts

116 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Immortalisation said:
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!

It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.

Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
Why do you feel that and ex rental is worth less than a privately owned car?
I’m gonna honest, you probably know a lot more than me in terms of current actual market prices of ex-rental vs. privately owned, it’s more just down to my personal opinion and preferences.

There’s a lot that goes into it and I know there are some advantages to buying ex-rental but I still feel that generally a person who is more financially invested in a car they own is going to look after it better as opposed to a random guy renting a car for a day for £30.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

127 months

Thursday 11th January 2018
quotequote all
Immortalisation said:
...it’s more just down to my personal opinion and preferences.
So would you be after a refund of any extra cost incurred (which may well be £0) or a hug?