Unwittingly bought an ex-rental car and the law on this?
Discussion
Cooperman said:
Am I alone in not understanding what the op is upset about. He has bought a car which he admits he likes driving. It is reliable, except for the 'box which was changed after he had done c.22k miles in it himself at no cost to him.
What does it matter what it was used for prior to him buying it. It could have been a single owner/user driving it and abusing the gearbox, revving it from cold, abusing the clutch or auto box, driving over unmade roads at speed, but presumably he wouldn't have minded as it would have been one owner/driver.
Most people hiring cars drive them no differently from their own cars and hire cars are usually sold off after a very short period and at low mileage.
I dunno if you missed my last post? But anywho I can see where you're coming from but then again I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.What does it matter what it was used for prior to him buying it. It could have been a single owner/user driving it and abusing the gearbox, revving it from cold, abusing the clutch or auto box, driving over unmade roads at speed, but presumably he wouldn't have minded as it would have been one owner/driver.
Most people hiring cars drive them no differently from their own cars and hire cars are usually sold off after a very short period and at low mileage.
Another ex-rental owner. When the V5 came back on my previous car I was horrified to see 'Hertz' as the previous owner, nothing as cryptic as the OPs case.
Like him the thought of loads of folks ragging the car about filled me with absolute dread but, as previously mentioned, that probably isn't the case.
My car was one year old when I bought it, and in reality, who sells a one year old vehicle with 12k on it?
There isn't that many folk around who can afford to do that every year, so of course it's corporate.
Most people are not gear heads or hoons. Most people who hire cars (which isn't a cheap affair and has big penalities for damaage) do so for a reason.
Even if some of the users gave it some stick, the majority won't have, and as mentioned - a car where some users have might have mistreated it - but it's been maintained regardless of cost is better than the one owner car that's been ragged 5 miles to work everyday.
My car gave me 60k of good service. It's past never gave cause for comment - apart from the bodywork and interor which was immaculate when I got it from being cleaned pretty much weekly.
If the cars a good'un put it to the back of your mind - it will make no difference in the long run.
Like him the thought of loads of folks ragging the car about filled me with absolute dread but, as previously mentioned, that probably isn't the case.
My car was one year old when I bought it, and in reality, who sells a one year old vehicle with 12k on it?
There isn't that many folk around who can afford to do that every year, so of course it's corporate.
Most people are not gear heads or hoons. Most people who hire cars (which isn't a cheap affair and has big penalities for damaage) do so for a reason.
Even if some of the users gave it some stick, the majority won't have, and as mentioned - a car where some users have might have mistreated it - but it's been maintained regardless of cost is better than the one owner car that's been ragged 5 miles to work everyday.
My car gave me 60k of good service. It's past never gave cause for comment - apart from the bodywork and interor which was immaculate when I got it from being cleaned pretty much weekly.
If the cars a good'un put it to the back of your mind - it will make no difference in the long run.
baccalad said:
But you all have to concede though that the dealer is just as much if not more in the wrong than me, they should know better, and POSSIBLY, although there's no way of knowing, took advantage of my inexperience in that I didn't make many checks and ask a lot of questions.
Without going back to your first post and looking, I think the dealer you named is part of a large group. In which case the used stock will probably have been purchased in bulk centrally and then send out to the various sites.The site in question may well sell 75-100 used cars per month, do you realy expect the salesman to have knowledge of each car on site? Unless you request exact detail on its history why would he waste time in digging out all the docs?
Anyway Op lesson learned, if specific things are important to you then you need to ask at the time of purchase and not assume that someone is going to point out every detail about the car to you. Unfortunatly you seem to have developed the "its not my fault, somebody should have told me" attitude that so many in this country have.
I'd not be too concerned by an ex hire car. As has been mentioned, they are well maintained and I'd imagine most drivers of them could in unfamiliar surroundings and would be concentrating more on where they are going than thrashing the car.
I wouldn't like to buy dealership's ex service loan car though, they really get a beating.
I wouldn't like to buy dealership's ex service loan car though, they really get a beating.
baccalad said:
I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.
This. Absolutely 100% this. That "one private owner" car could have been doing donuts round every McDonalds car park in the land for all the next owner knows. Granted the odds are probably worse that a rental car has been given some stick, but it's no guarantee.pork911 said:
I can't see that you have.
Also, who are you, the OPs alternate user name?
I don't think you understood my post at allAlso, who are you, the OPs alternate user name?
I was not trying to be on the OPs side, if anything the opposite, i was trying to highlight that although on the face of it the guidance does suggest the dealers doing this are acting illegally, the reality is far more complicated.
charltjr said:
baccalad said:
I suppose there's no way of knowing how a car's been driven/looked after. The best thing to do I suppose is just to take it with a pinch of salt and assume that any used car has been "used and abused" to at least some extent.
This. Absolutely 100% this. That "one private owner" car could have been doing donuts round every McDonalds car park in the land for all the next owner knows. Granted the odds are probably worse that a rental car has been given some stick, but it's no guarantee.He kept all the original bits and put the car back to standard when he sold it..... you'd never know to look at it that it had been ragged. He now does the same thing but in an Astra coupe.
When I bought my wife a car from the local main dealer, there were six cars of the same spec to choose from. They were all 12 months old, had very similar registration numbers and had mileages varying between 8000 and 12000.
At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.
Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!
At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.
Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 9th October 19:56
baccalad said:
But you all have to concede though that the dealer is just as much if not more in the wrong than me...
No, it's entirely your fault. And you are worrying over nothing. If you don't want to buy a car that someone else may have 'thrashed', try a new one, (although have you seen how they drive them on and off the boats at import?)
hora said:
jkh112 said:
When I bought my wife a car from the local main dealer, there were six cars of the same spec to choose from. They were all 12 months old, had very similar registration numbers and had mileages varying between 8000 and 12000.
At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.
Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!
Pretty much the same as me with the Focus I bought. The (different) issue is (it seems) the OP didn't even bother enquiring about the (any) service history etc at the time. At the time of purchase the v5 was not available but as all these cars were one owner I made a guess as to where they had come from.
I bought one of them; 5 years and 40,000 miles later it is still my wife's car. It is used daily, has been loaded with luggage and a roof box for holidays and yet the only servicing it has needed has been tyres, air filters, oil filters, oil, bulbs, brake discs and pads.
This thread has prompted me to find the V5 and I am not surprised to see the that the previous keeper was a car hire company.
Maybe I can claim a refund on the purchase price? Or maybe I should just get on with my life and continue to run an ex hire car as it has been without doubt the most reliable car I have owned.
Edited to add it also had a new battery last winter!
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 9th October 19:56
Before you spend several grand, at least read the paperwork.
Duh.
I think the latest ruling by the ASA will may assist in settling this argument as to whether it breaches 2008 Consumer Protection Regs gentlemen. I think you’ll find it does
https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...
Regards
Rigsbyscat
https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...
Regards
Rigsbyscat
The problem is how do you prove that the previous owner of the used car you purchased was mis-represented by the supplying dealer and what about cars with 3 or 4 owners on them, with the first being a a rental company which won't be on the registration document.
The whole thing is a joke.
We have now re-worded all of our ads with the addition of where the car originated from:
The whole thing is a joke.
We have now re-worded all of our ads with the addition of where the car originated from:
- Dealer demo
- Motability
- Rental
- Private
- Courtesy car
- Manufacturers demo
- Manufacturers company car
- Fleet
Rigsbyscat said:
I think the latest ruling by the ASA will may assist in settling this argument as to whether it breaches 2008 Consumer Protection Regs gentlemen. I think you’ll find it does
https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...
Regards
Rigsbyscat
It settles nothing at the moment - it's simply advice, and a lot of the text is vague in that it says people "could" get compo, "may" be entitled etc.https://www.whatcar.com/news/car-miss-selling-scan...
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...
Regards
Rigsbyscat
The actual ruling relates to a vehicle that was used by Fiat Chrysler Auto themselves though, and whether it had multiple users or not, and whether this has any bearing on the consumer being able to make an informed decision.
The full text of the ruling is here - https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/glyn-hopkin-ltd-and...
The arguble point that still needs to be tested in court though, is whether a multiple user fleet car is any worse, or even better, than a one user privately owned vehicle.
As discussed on another thread ( https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ), there is a lot of conjecture around the subject. A business has a duty of care to it's employees and customers, therefore the vehicle should be well serviced, safe and compliant at al times.
Also, what distinguishes a fleet vehicle? My company supplies thousands of vehicles into fleets each year. As far as we are concerned, the vehicle is allocated to one customer, however if that customer lets one person drive that vehicle, or one hundred different people is not known to us.
Similarly, a PCH or PCP vehicle is still technically a rental, but is typically only driven by one person.
But a true "rental" vehicle that you could get at the airport will be checked each and every time the vehicle is hired out - tyres, fluids, service history etc, again it is a duty of care to the customer. Does every private vehicle get checked as often?
Until some cases get in front of a judge this is still all up in the air, but I can imagine that the fleet industry will have rather deep pockets to fund legal bills.
Edited by S11Steve on Thursday 11th January 16:35
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!
It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
Immortalisation said:
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!
It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
Why do you feel that and ex rental is worth less than a privately owned car?It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
The other question is whether a dealer would know who the previous keeper was, and what the use of the vehicle was.
Enterprise Rent a Car have abbreviated the registered keeper to ERAC, which is well known, but if Little Village Car Rental or Big City Vehicle Hire abbreviated to LVCR or BCVH on the V5, would this be as obvious?
Enterprise Rent a Car have abbreviated the registered keeper to ERAC, which is well known, but if Little Village Car Rental or Big City Vehicle Hire abbreviated to LVCR or BCVH on the V5, would this be as obvious?
HTP99 said:
Immortalisation said:
Haha yeah I’ve been having sleepless nights for the past 3 and a half years over it!
It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
Why do you feel that and ex rental is worth less than a privately owned car?It is interesting though that this has resurfaced after all this time, (I do still have the car btw), even if the individual salesman didn’t know it was ex-rental, at some higher level the company knew what it was doing and has/had been getting away with it for years up until now it seems.
Even now looking back on it, I am still slightly annoyed about it as I don’t feel the car would’ve worth as much as I paid for it with it being an ex-rental. If I had known I wouldn’t have bought it and in the future I’m going to make sure before buying.
There’s a lot that goes into it and I know there are some advantages to buying ex-rental but I still feel that generally a person who is more financially invested in a car they own is going to look after it better as opposed to a random guy renting a car for a day for £30.
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