Average Speed Cams - are people really this thick?

[Devil2575]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think it's easy to underestimate just how poor a grasp the majority of people have on the most basic principles of maths. Within the last few months I've discovered 2 people in their 50s that I've know for years that:
a) asked me how many zeros were in 10K, saying "I've never got all those noughts business" and
b) had no idea what a percentage actually meant, and didn't understand how to deduct 20% from 50 and didn't want me to even explain it because they knew it would be beyond them anyway.

As for basic probability, well you just need to read the lotto threads on PH to see how many people are completely lost with that.

I'm not surprised that the whole "average" concept is lost on the general populous.

Hang on one second.
Surely you neant to say 20s and not 50s!

Everyone knows that in the past the education system was brilliant and without fault, you know in the days when kids could be beaten, abused and feared respected their elders. It's inconceivable that anyone in their 50s can't do long multiplaction in their head let alone not understand something like percentages.

It's only the uneducated deliquents today who get A* for just writing their names who can't do stuff like that.

Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 9th February 12:54

Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 9th February 12:55

[ferrariF50lover]

tankplanker said:

thought the drop to 60mph was mostly caused by the UK not hitting its emissions targets? Wasn't a section of the M1 meant to be upgraded to 80mph then got quietly scrapped for the 60mph limit? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mot...

I was thinking more of the bits around Bristol and the M5/M6 interchange.

However, I did beg this question on a recent journey. Are we further behind our emissions targets than we're being told and are the authorities using average 50 zones and variable speed limits to help, while pretending it's a road safety, rather than eco-friendly agenda?

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, I just wondered whether it might not be easier, if we're talking about money making, to add a couple of pence on to council tax, rather than buggering about with speed cameras. It's got bugger all to do with safety, so there could be another reason. Emissions was what came to mind.

I find myself once again sceptical (although I'm happy to be pointed in the right direction) that, when China and India and America make more carbons in 25 minutes than we do all year (I've made that up, but you get the idea), just how helpful to the plight of the polar bears can it be for a few thousand people to travel a little bit slower for a few miles? I'll bet the difference it makes overall starts with a zero, then has a decimal, then one hell of a lot more zeros.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

catman said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think it's easy to underestimate just how poor a grasp the majority of people have on the most basic principles of maths. Within the last few months I've discovered 2 people in their 50s that I've know for years that:
a) asked me how many zeros were in 10K, saying "I've never got all those noughts business" and
b) had no idea what a percentage actually meant, and didn't understand how to deduct 20% from 50 and didn't want me to even explain it because they knew it would be beyond them anyway.

As for basic probability, well you just need to read the lotto threads on PH to see how many people are completely lost with that.

I'm not surprised that the whole "average" concept is lost on the general populous.

That's surprising. People of that age didn't have the use of calculators and so are generally better at mental arithmetic.

Maybe they were the exception. I used to annoy my Manager by doing calculations faster in my head than he could do on a calculator.

Tim

Thing is Tim, people who were in their 50s when you left school were all saying education had gone to the dogs and we were churning out thickies. I guarantee that if you can find a Daily Mail from 1916, it'll say all the kids are thick and education was so much better in 1880!

Socrates wrote an essay on the younger generation and how fking useless they all were, and that was 3500 years ago!

[speedking31]

over_the_hill said:

speedking31 said:

If every vehicle kept a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front then speed is irrelevant and exactly the same number of vehicles pass through a section of road in an hour, i.e. 3600 / 2 = 1800. That's true whether the speed is 20 or 70 mph. In fact if drivers are too close at higher speeds then more vehicles will pass in an hour than at slow speed, assuming constant velocity.

If you have two lines of cars 20 miles long - one line in lane 1 moving at 20mph and one line in lane 2 moving at 60mph - and you stand on a bridge, the lane 2 line will have all passed you in 20minutes. The lane 1 line will take an hour to all pass under the bridge.

That's why I said "If every vehicle kept a 2 second gap ...". you are just arguing that lines of cars with different gaps take different lengths of time to pass. In fact there will be 3 times as many cars in lane 1 so the volume of vehicles per hour will be identical.

[Vipers]

Devil2575 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think it's easy to underestimate just how poor a grasp the majority of people have on the most basic principles of maths. Within the last few months I've discovered 2 people in their 50s that I've know for years that:
a) asked me how many zeros were in 10K, saying "I've never got all those noughts business" and
b) had no idea what a percentage actually meant, and didn't understand how to deduct 20% from 50 and didn't want me to even explain it because they knew it would be beyond them anyway.

As for basic probability, well you just need to read the lotto threads on PH to see how many people are completely lost with that.

I'm not surprised that the whole "average" concept is lost on the general populous.

Hang on one second.
Surely you neant to say 20s and not 50s!

Everyone knows that in the past the education system was brilliant and without fault, you know in the days when kids could be beaten, abused and feared respected their elders. It's inconceivable that anyone in their 50s can't do long multiplaction in their head let alone not understand something like percentages.

It's only the uneducated deliquents today who get A* for just writing their names who can't do stuff like that.

Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 9th February 12:54

Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 9th February 12:55

Some people don't know everything, I can square a number in my head if it ends in a 5, how many do you know who can do that.

What you say is right though, many can't work out percentages, maybe they have never had to.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I've long since realised that if brains were dynamite, most people would struggle to blow their hat off.

[Vipers]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I've long since realised that if brains were dynamite, most people would struggle to blow their hat off.

Love the quote,

[over_the_hill]

speedking31 said:

over_the_hill said:

speedking31 said:

If every vehicle kept a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front then speed is irrelevant and exactly the same number of vehicles pass through a section of road in an hour, i.e. 3600 / 2 = 1800. That's true whether the speed is 20 or 70 mph. In fact if drivers are too close at higher speeds then more vehicles will pass in an hour than at slow speed, assuming constant velocity.

If you have two lines of cars 20 miles long - one line in lane 1 moving at 20mph and one line in lane 2 moving at 60mph - and you stand on a bridge, the lane 2 line will have all passed you in 20minutes. The lane 1 line will take an hour to all pass under the bridge.

That's why I said "If every vehicle kept a 2 second gap ...". you are just arguing that lines of cars with different gaps take different lengths of time to pass. In fact there will be 3 times as many cars in lane 1 so the volume of vehicles per hour will be identical.

Sorry - misread your post.

Agree there will be 3x more cars in lane 1 but lane 2 is coming through 3x faster so exactly the same.

[s2sol]

In the early days of our relationship, I looked on in admiration as my wife blasted through a set of 50mph average speed cameras at an indicated 80. She says she believed it was the average speed of all the vehicles passing the cameras that was measured, and there were loads doing 45, so she'd be fine.

[Willy Nilly]

s2sol said:

In the early days of our relationship, I looked on in admiration as my wife blasted through a set of 50mph average speed cameras at an indicated 80. She says she believed it was the average speed of all the vehicles passing the cameras that was measured, and there were loads doing 45, so she'd be fine.

[Alucidnation]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I've long since realised that if brains were dynamite, most people wouldn't have enough to blow their own nose..

[Rostfritt]

Negative Creep said:

Having recently had the pleasure of that lovely 50mph zone protecting all those valuable cones on the M3,

They have literally been there forever. Do they appear on ordinance survey maps?

[superlightr]

StuTheGrouch said:

I've just accepted that I shouldn't ever be surprised at the stupidity of the human race. There are so many retards out there incapable of the simplest things it's amazing that they can get themselves dressed.

Not that I look down on others or anything....

fek im reading this in my pants....better get dressed.....thanks for the reminder....

[BertBert]

Well I did check with Mrs Bert. And as predicted she was all clear on average speeds and stuff. Which is good her having a numbers degree.

But then she started talking about the "average speed limit".

So in my normal non condescending way I said no luv it's a speed limit. An absolute one. No she said it must be an average speed limit. Otherwise you wouldn't have average speed cameras.

I said look you stupid woman...

Then we had a domestic...

[marshalla]

BertBert said:

Well I did check with Mrs Bert. And as predicted she was all clear on average speeds and stuff. Which is good her having a numbers degree.

But then she started talking about the "average speed limit".

So in my normal non condescending way I said no luv it's a speed limit. An absolute one. No she said it must be an average speed limit. Otherwise you wouldn't have average speed cameras.

I said look you stupid woman...

Then we had a domestic...

She's sort of right. The enforcement system means that they don't really know what your vMax was, just how long it took you to get between two points. As long as the time is at or below their chosen value, you're OK. You could do 120mph and then stop for a while and get away with exceeding the signed limit.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

marshalla said:

BertBert said:

Well I did check with Mrs Bert. And as predicted she was all clear on average speeds and stuff. Which is good her having a numbers degree.

But then she started talking about the "average speed limit".

So in my normal non condescending way I said no luv it's a speed limit. An absolute one. No she said it must be an average speed limit. Otherwise you wouldn't have average speed cameras.

I said look you stupid woman...

Then we had a domestic...

She's sort of right. The enforcement system means that they don't really know what your vMax was, just how long it took you to get between two points. As long as the time is at or below their chosen value, you're OK. You could do 120mph and then stop for a while and get away with exceeding the signed limit.

In an 50 average speed zone, a police car could pull you doing over 50 for a few seconds, even if he'd been following you doing 45 for 5 miles. So BertBert is right.

[marshalla]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

In an 50 average speed zone, a police car could pull you doing over 50 for a few seconds, even if he'd been following you doing 45 for 5 miles. So BertBert is right.

Different sort of enforcement. The police enforce the signed limit at any instant, the cameras can only enforce an average over time.

[0000]

Different sort of enforcement, but one that demonstrates the limit is still absolute.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

A 50mph zone with average speed cameras is basically saying "the limit is 50 and one of the methods we use to enforce that is average speed cameras". There's nothing to say it's the only method, and you could be in front of an unmarked police car and get done doing over 50, regardless of your average speed.

Honestly, this isn't even a debate worth having.

[jurbie]

Very true, the A20 into Dover had, maybe still does, a 6 mile 40 limit with signs on entry stating there was an average speed check. However this was enforced by just two average speed cameras around a 200 yard section of road that was being working on. You would meet the first camera around 2.5 miles into the limit however on one occasion I did see a camera van enforcing the limit from around a mile in.

Edited by jurbie on Wednesday 10th February 10:15