Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

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Ken Figenus said:

I know the weight of everything except the trailer as this isnt hired yet but I guess this isn't looking promising. So could anyone kindly confirm that a 1950kg car on a (braked) trailer pulled by a 535d (2000kg braked max towing allowance) is a no go as adding the trailer weight itself will kill that? I have ye olde 8000kg licence but guess I need a vehicle that is allowed to tow about 2500kg to additionally account for the trailer's physical weight? Shame really as the 535d has huge brakes/tyres and self leveling suspension etc - but is allowed not an ounce more than a 518d.

The car on the trailer weighs 1950kg !!!!!!!!??????????? = are you sure because that is a VERY heavy car

Most cars weigh around 1500 actual weight and car transporter trailer can weigh as little as 350 kg making a total of 1850 so well within the 2000 toing capacity

Please recheck your weights

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T16OLE said:

Morning, looking for some advice.

We have a twin axle box trailer, unladen weight, 1030kg.

The vehicle is circa 2000kg.

I passed my test in 2005, can I tow unladen on the motorway with my father, whom passed circa 1997?

Thanks in advance.

YES


SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

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T16OLE said:

Perfect, what about if the trailer is loaded say by 600kg bringing the overall weight above 3500kg?

Are you referring to B licence towing or to supervised B+E learner licence towing ?

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T16OLE said:

As in myself, passed in 05 supervised by my father.

Thanks

If being supervised under B+E rules then B+E rules apply so as long as the MAM of the trailer or the towing capacity of the vehicle is not exceeded then all is ok

Towing by yourself would be under B licence rules where the max 3500 comes into play which means that the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer cannot total more than 3500 kg

Licences go on the plated weights not the actual weights

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Ken Figenus said:

Sorry chaps me again - the online info seems a bit out on the 535d E61 stating 2000kgs max towing. The second number on the actual plate for the car says 4380 and the car iself weights 1790. This seemingly allows 2590 kg towing weight but this must of course include everything - load, trailer, fuel and passengers luggage etc. Am I right here?

First number on the plate is needed then deduct that from the second number which in most cases is the max DESIGN tow weight

The second number (GTW) would be complied with under your scenario BUT the DESIGN weight would not be

There are two sets of regs
Weight laws under the RTA
Max design weights under C&U regs

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Ken Figenus said:

Thanks R0G - your help is much appreciated as having a look here for C&U regs is baffling;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/78/made



I know I'm likely on a loser but is there any way this Beemer can tow 2850kg plus its own weight (inc fuel and occupants)? Or does the [not displayed] construction and use regs define it as max 2000kg towing weight (inc trailer and car on trailer), end of.

4380 - 2320 = 2060 max towing capacity UNLESS the handbook or V5 states more

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tharriso said:

I have bought a braked single axle trailer with a MAM of 1300kg.

I don't have B+E. I passed my test in 2009.

I now need to buy a tow car.

My understanding:
I need something with a MAM/gross weight up to 2200kg.
But with braked towing capacity over 1300kg.

Have I got that right?

YES but you can get a vehicle with a lower towing capacity of say 1200 but that will reduce the max trailer load by 100

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mad4amanda said:

very Helpful thread quick question regarding driving with a trailer are speed limits in the uk still 60 MPH on motorways and DC, 50MPH on other roads with NSL? and others as signposted? What about outer lanes on 2 or 3 or more lane motorways and DC are DC different?
We have just got a small camping trailer tried searching the download of the highway code but I could not find anything on trailers.

You got the speed limits right

You cannot use the outer lane where the motorway is 3 lanes or more - no such restriction on DC

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leyorkie said:

Here's hoping ROG is still around.
I'm struggling to get my head around this.
I have the correct licence to go over 3500kg but the car is not capable, however my quandary is Is it the plated capacity that dictates the load.
It's a Skoda Octavia with kerb weight 1400 kg and Horsebox of max 2340 kg but actual weight of 905kg, I'm wanting to move the empty trailer, no way would I stick 2 horses in it.
Empty it's acceptable but on plated capacity it's over the cars capacity.
Clarification needed from those that know and understand these regs.

Thanks

There is mo law or rule which states that the plated weight of a trailer must be within the max towing capacity of the vehicle - plenty of internet myths saying other though !

This is a legal example with a B+E licence

Vehicle
GVW 2000
Towing capacity 1800

Trailer
MAM 2500
Empty 1000

Max load for trailer = 800

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leyorkie said:

Thanks.
It seemed to me that you were guilty before the event.
85% of the towing capacity is 1200kg so 905kg is well within the limits.

The 85% ADVICE is for caravans only and the recommendation is for the caravan actual weight not to be more than 85% of the vehicle actual weight at the time of towing
The CC use worse case scenario weights where they assume the vehicle is empty with a fully laden caravan

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chevy55 said:

From another forum the question came up about towing a caravan trailer with a large yank pickup truck with a fifth wheel arrangement, For licence (and I suppose legality) purposes are these treated the same as trailers hooked up via tow ball as before the HGV licence changes I believe they were different. From what the poster says the pickup truck will be about 5.5 tonnes gvw and the trailer about the same although the trailer is over 7m long so I think that's over length for a BE licence anyway. My main question is whether a trailer and a semi trailer are different or the same in law
Will he need a tacho as well?

Same weight laws but any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes comes into LGV category for licence laws - you stated GVW is 5.5 tonnes so that makes it a LGV C1 vehicle

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chevy55 said:

es it's a large American pickup and looking at the specs it's around 5.5 tons gross, adding a five ton+ trailer to it would surely make it CE wouldn't it unless you don't have the 107 code on C1E

If it has a 5.5 tonne GVW then it is a C1 vehicle and towing a trailer over 750kgs would need C1+E

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What categories are left on your licence ?

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[quote=Who me ?]AM/A/B1/BE are the ones left after I turned 70 . TBH - I'm more interested in what has been removed as the letter giving me the option was vague.
[/quote]
At age 70 you need to take and pass the D4 medical to retain anything in the pre 1997 C & D categories ( C1 C1E(107) D1(101) D1E(101) )
That medical lasts for 3 years and costs £60 max - if more you have been ripped off


You still have BE so can tow a trailer up to 3500 MAM with a vehicle up to 3500 GVW if the vehicle weight limits allow for that

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chevy55 said:

You obviously don't live in the south of the country.

Google Drivers medicals or doctors on wheels

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lenard said:

ive got a skoda octavia 1.9tdi 2007 i think the towing limit is 1400kg. can i tow a caravan with a max weight of 1473 and unladen 1245? if i drove with the van empty and the heavy stuff in the car. so that the van didn't weigh more than the car? ive got a b licence. but been towing for years.

Max ACTUAL tow limit is 1400 so what ever you are towing must not ACTUALLY weigh more than that

Re B licence - as the caravan is 1473 MTPLM (MAM) plated weight then the GVW (MAM) plated weight of the Octavia must not be more than 2027kg
1473+2027=3500

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was8v said:

I am assuming Gross Vehicle Weight = MAM

With Freelander 2 I can tow:
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 2505 = 995kg mam trailer. FL2 has a max of 2000kg.

I CANT TOW CARAVAN as the caravan MAM is 1080kg, which is over 995kg.

Little Golf can tow
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 1720 = 1780kg MAM, however car has a max of 1100kg

Caravan is 1080kg MAM so I can tow it with this!

You have the figures and law spot on = well done

When you tow the empty caravan it will probably weigh about 900kg so well within the 1100 limit

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Chicken Chaser said:

Just to thank the contributors of this thread, it seems that my question on B licence towing has been answered through previous replies on here, particularly R0G so thank you!

The only thing I will add is most of the time, car specs only show the kerb weight and not the GVW. I've been looking about for a suitable towcar for a 1450kg caravan with a B licence but I appear to be struggling. Some of the cars I've looked at are 2000kg GVW yet kerb weight is around 1500kg which is by my understanding of the weight rules, way over 85% ratio for a suitable match.

The 85 % ADVICE is so that the actual weight at the time of towing is not more than an 85% match so what weight do you estimate your car and caravan will be at the time of towing ?

CC figures of vehicle kerb weight and caravan MTPLM use the worse case scenario where the caravan is loaded to the max and the car only has the driver in it

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scorcher said:

Is this a load of old nonsense or not? I can remember a while back there was a thing about downplating trailers,(to comply with your MTW) but do you still have to do this?

Also the nonsense about the irrelevance of the towing vehicle weight??


"and by the way, there's no point in actually weighing your vehicle.. the vehicles actual weight is irrelevant (stupid I know) but the way it's worked out is on the plated weight... i.e. a 280 transit, is 2800kg whether or not you actually have it fully loaded or not makes no ends.. you can tow 1.3t even if you had a license and it only weighed 2.2t at the time... as the police look at the rated weight and add it to the rated weight of the trailer... so the trailers gross weight also has to add up to less than 3.5t when added to the towing vehicle rated train weight


soo.... if your vans max train weight is 3.5t and its gross weight is 2.8t you can only tow a trailer RATED UP TO 700kg... you technically can't even tow an unladen trailer if it can potentially weigh more than 700kg

its done this way, so it's easy for plod to nick you basically, without having to actually weigh the vehicles"

Rubbish !!

The only time a driver can be nicked is if they only have a B licence and the vehicle GVW + trailer MAM weights total more than 3500kg if the trailer is over 750kg MAM

There is no law or rule which states that the total plated weights must not be more than the GTW or that a trailer MAM must be within the listed towing capacity

Those are the legal facts

Where do you get your info from ?

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CPC said:

From reading this thread i believe this will be legal

I passed my test in 2003 so standard B licence and have a 2007 Rav 4 and looking to tow my classic mini race car on a small trailer

Toyota Rav 4 - 1595kg curb weight with 2000kg braked towing capacity
Mini race car - 590KG
Brian James trailer - 390kg with 1400kg gvm

So in theory around 2600 kg total ( plus spares/tools 100kg maybe in tow vehicle)

Thanks
Chris

What I need to give you a legal definitive answer is the GVW of the vehicle - the one figure you have not posted !