Police too busy!
Discussion
V6Pushfit said:
La Liga said:
You're criticising shift patterns and then suggesting one in the same paragraph.
Including 'but' and 'interested to see', then no I'm not. I don't work in the Police just see the issues from the lack of organisation from the outside. It's not as easy when you actually have to commit to one, is it?
How can you not have shift patterns with an organisation that requires 24/7 cover? How can they, if there's 24/7 cover required, be of a 'bygone era'?
Bigends said:
We used to work a 7 on 2 off Nights/lates and earlies pattern. Provided good cover - wouldn't have the numbers to cover that now and I doubt that many would want to work regular 7 days on the trot.
It was very unhealthy (the turnarounds) and, like you say, required the numbers. Fewer, bigger shifts working longer hours are the only realistic options today.
La Liga said:
It's plain to read.
It's not as easy when you actually have to commit to one, is it?
How can you not have shift patterns with an organisation that requires 24/7 cover? How can they, if there's 24/7 cover required, be of a 'bygone era'?
I have no interest in doing the reorganising of the Police service on PH, but it needs reorganising from what can plainly be seen that's for sure. It's not as easy when you actually have to commit to one, is it?
How can you not have shift patterns with an organisation that requires 24/7 cover? How can they, if there's 24/7 cover required, be of a 'bygone era'?
As the papers said last week, the NHS is struggling to cope in the face of 24/7 working and cant manage efficiency for toffee - but Tescos can.
V6Pushfit said:
I have no interest in doing the reorganising of the Police service on PH, but it needs reorganising from what can plainly be seen that's for sure.
As the papers said last week, the NHS is struggling to cope in the face of 24/7 working and cant manage efficiency for toffee - but Tescos can.
That's because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to police shift patterns. You proposed something that didn't even have 24/7 cover. As the papers said last week, the NHS is struggling to cope in the face of 24/7 working and cant manage efficiency for toffee - but Tescos can.
Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
davemac250 said:
OP - posters mention the army to try and get you to look at your assertion all officers are useless. If you can't see that I'd refer you to your recent pop at toomany2cvs where you accused him of posting the same thing over and over...
Our, your, police force is broken. I've been 'selected' to join a discussion group within my force to suggest ways to fix things. I've seen the budgets, there isn't enough money.
I've said that not all officers are useless - 14 pages ago. If I had said all officers are useless, how would mentioning the army change anything or make me think differently? Our, your, police force is broken. I've been 'selected' to join a discussion group within my force to suggest ways to fix things. I've seen the budgets, there isn't enough money.
I have conceded that army personnel have failings. That doesn't really have any bearing on the police though. It appears that most people on here can't do that about police officers and continue to blame the media, budgets etc.
As for 2cv, he wasn't expressing an opinion, he was completely misquoting an act and misunderstanding quite simple legislation.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 26th May 17:28
walm said:
If not all officers are useless, why do you think the police are utterly useless?
Do you need help looking up the meaning of the word "utterly"?
Because of my experiences of them (I think I might have mentioned that before)Do you need help looking up the meaning of the word "utterly"?
I don't recall ever saying "all police are useless", but several have quoted me as doing so. Mind you, I was also misquoted as saying something like "waiting for a response from Dibble" which I never said.
Surely police officers are expected to be meticulous when it comes to things like this - writing statements etc. No wonder so many people get off charges from "lack of evidence". And they say soldiers are thick
La Liga said:
hat's because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to police shift patterns. You proposed something that didn't even have 24/7 cover.
Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
Shows the shallowness of your arguments really in your comments about Tescos. Had it gone over your head that their share price has ZILCH to do with 24/7 opening and everything to do with retail prices?? Typical blunt half understood reasoning. Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
I think all of my points have been centred around my perception. It wasn't intended to cause offence. Some of the replies clearly have.
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
V6Pushfit said:
La Liga said:
hat's because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to police shift patterns. You proposed something that didn't even have 24/7 cover.
Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
Shows the shallowness of your arguments really in your comments about Tescos. Had it gone over your head that their share price has ZILCH to do with 24/7 opening and everything to do with retail prices?? Typical blunt half understood reasoning.Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
Tesco has underperformed the retail sector significantly. That's nothing to do with retail prices, it's lack of efficiency amongst other things. If you want to hold a company up as a favourable comparison, then at least pick a good one.
bmw535i said:
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
No evidence public opinion has declined over the past 30 years. In fact, certain areas have increased. Plenty of data online. . La Liga said:
o evidence public opinion has declined over the past 30 years. In fact, certain areas have increased. Plenty of data online. .
Probably true, but like I said it will eventually decline if you can't serve the public properly, which I think most people would agree is the case - for whatever reason.Interestingly the police themselves (54% of 14000 officers in 2012) believed that public opinion towards them had declined over the previous 10 years. I wonder why that is if you say there is evidence to suggest that belief is unfounded.
bmw535i said:
Probably true, but like I said it will eventually decline if you can't serve the public properly, which I think most people would agree is the case - for whatever reason.
The key word being 'if'. There are 13 million incidents per year. Within that sample some are dealt with badly. Most are dealt with at least satisfactorily (as the people whom are surveyed indicate). bmw535i said:
Interestingly the police themselves (54% of 14000 officers in 2012) believed that public opinion towards them had declined over the previous 10 years. I wonder why that is if you say there is evidence to suggest that belief is unfounded.
It's basic human psychology to reflect upon the past in a more favourable light. It's a flaw like over-weighting one's own experiences as opposed to considering the bigger picture, for example.
Fundamentally, as 999 calls are responded to most of the time (check out the response data if you like), prisoners are dealt with according to PACE, the courts and prisons are full, then the police are suitably efficient. Especially when we have one of the lower police-per-head numbers in the first world.
Derek Smith said:
Perhaps they read what blinkered people post on forums.
Another reason, and the one I favour, might be that they realise how the swingeing cuts are affecting the service they provide. But that can't be right as police officers don't really care.
Servicing police officers and those recently retired whom I've spoken with all complain that they are stopped from doing the job as well as they'd wish because of the demand.
But why would you believe the public don't like you when there is "evidence" to say they do. It doesn't really make sense.Another reason, and the one I favour, might be that they realise how the swingeing cuts are affecting the service they provide. But that can't be right as police officers don't really care.
Servicing police officers and those recently retired whom I've spoken with all complain that they are stopped from doing the job as well as they'd wish because of the demand.
Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
bmw535i said:
But why would you believe the public don't like you when there is "evidence" to say they do. It doesn't really make sense.
Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
There are many cognitive biases and heuristics which influence our perceptions and conclusions. Things make greater sense when they're understood. Here are a few, and many are interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_bi...Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
La Liga said:
Says they chap whose attempt to come up with a police shift pattern left time gaps where there'd be no one working. You've had to try and distract and make flawed comparisons because you've been shown to know nothing about shift patterns and policing demand.
I couldn't give a toss so I'm hardly going going to put any thought into it. You expect a few posts on PH to rectify the issues when it would take months of consideration and no doubt a huge row with UNISON who would be 'looking after' their members interests ie overtime. You really aren't coming over as able to put forward a valid argument you've cocked up the Tesco criticism for a start, the point was (to spell it out) is they have seamless continuity and communication to keep a large business running 24/7 so that customers don't notice a difference between 8am and 8pm so what have share prices got to do with it? Bizarre La Liga said:
here are many cognitive biases and heuristics which influence our perceptions and conclusions. Things make greater sense when they're understood. Here are a few, and many are interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_bi...
Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
Possibly. I'd imagine a lot of officers feel undervalued by their chain of command and also the poor training they receive.Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
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