S3 lotus esprit off eBay. What could go wrong. Read on.

[Durzel]

Cold said:

Durzel said:

No offence to Welshbeef but can anyone else back up what he is saying about how it's basically a diamond in the rough?

Has anyone on here displayed any knowledge of Esprits?

The situation is unfortunate but the discussion is being compounded by misinformed nonsense of the marque and this model.

I'm completely clueless about them, but Welshbeef seems to be talking about this car as if it's an astute purchase and how the OP could actually make a profit on it at the end of the day. Was curious as to whether this was rooted in any kind of fact, because otherwise the OP could be led down an even more ruinous path.

[Vaud]

Cold said:

That's not an S4. This is an S4:

Thanks for the correction. Either way I like the blue.

[Welshbeef]

Durzel said:

I'm completely clueless about them, but Welshbeef seems to be talking about this car as if it's an astute purchase and how the OP could actually make a profit on it at the end of the day. Was curious as to whether this was rooted in any kind of fact, because otherwise the OP could be led down an even more ruinous path.

If the engine and gearbox is fubar then you could go this route so that’s the whole drivetrain taken care of + clearly it needs a good refresh.


It’s the chassis and bodywork is fubar which could be a can of worms.

Or grab this one take the best bits from the two cars then flog the doner carand likely to get money back in this ...

It’s a true petrol heads challenge. OP do it.

Edited by roops.mod on Tuesday 22 May 09:08

[Cold]

Durzel said:

I'm completely clueless about them, but Welshbeef seems to be talking about this car as if it's an astute purchase and how the OP could actually make a profit on it at the end of the day. Was curious as to whether this was rooted in any kind of fact, because otherwise the OP could be led down an even more ruinous path.

There's no profit to be had in this particular car in today's market. Oddly the restorative costs between an S1 a late 4cyl car are broadly similar, but the resulting "value" of the finished product is very different.

An '88 Turbo isn't particularly sought after and its monetary value reflects this. The OP paid a reasonably, but not outlandishly, good price for the car featured in the advert but even a highly polished, virtually unused example would struggle at high-ish teens in monetary value.

If the OP didn't have to rely on specialists or experts to repair and restore his car then he might - might - just about break even. It would require a nut and bolt strip down to investigate pretty much everything. The chassis is galvanised but at this age could well be suffering from corrosion around the exhaust manifold area. I'm not too fussed by the state of the door mount/support as it's just bolted in, but they aren't available off the shelf. (It doubles up as a stiffening brace/mount under the dash too.)

What really concerns me is the crack at the top of the "A" pillar. That whole roof area is a Kevlar composite mix and is immensely strong. Restoring the strength is not a DIY job, but I'd be more interested in discovering what caused the damage. Going by the other GRP damage, is the body even straight? Is that why the sunroof has gone walkabout? What about the chassis?

This car is clearly not as described and has been utterly misrepresented in the advert. I wonder what the next move by the OP might be.

[Vaud]

Cold said:

I wonder what the next move by the OP might be.

Being pragmatic - offering to pay the transport costs back for it in return for a full refund...

[S100HP]

Cold said:

Durzel said:

I'm completely clueless about them, but Welshbeef seems to be talking about this car as if it's an astute purchase and how the OP could actually make a profit on it at the end of the day. Was curious as to whether this was rooted in any kind of fact, because otherwise the OP could be led down an even more ruinous path.

There's no profit to be had in this particular car in today's market. Oddly the restorative costs between an S1 a late 4cyl car are broadly similar, but the resulting "value" of the finished product is very different.

An '88 Turbo isn't particularly sought after and its monetary value reflects this. The OP paid a reasonably, but not outlandishly, good price for the car featured in the advert but even a highly polished, virtually unused example would struggle at high-ish teens in monetary value.

If the OP didn't have to rely on specialists or experts to repair and restore his car then he might - might - just about break even. It would require a nut and bolt strip down to investigate pretty much everything. The chassis is galvanised but at this age could well be suffering from corrosion around the exhaust manifold area. I'm not too fussed by the state of the door mount/support as it's just bolted in, but they aren't available off the shelf. (It doubles up as a stiffening brace/mount under the dash too.)

What really concerns me is the crack at the top of the "A" pillar. That whole roof area is a Kevlar composite mix and is immensely strong. Restoring the strength is not a DIY job, but I'd be more interested in discovering what caused the damage. Going by the other GRP damage, is the body even straight? Is that why the sunroof has gone walkabout? What about the chassis?

This car is clearly not as described and has been utterly misrepresented in the advert. I wonder what the next move by the OP might be.

So Welshbeef was talking utter toss?

[Cold]

S100HP said:

So Welshbeef was talking utter toss?

Most internet talk about Lotus is tosh, even more so when it comes to the Esprit. I especially liked the idea someone had earlier of using a gearbox from a Renault 19. That was genius.

[Scotty2]

When I was looking for a project, I saw an SE at a "Salvage" yard in Sheffield that said it had light frontal damage - easy repair.

Took a specialist with me who got within 20 m of the car and turned round and said "Look, I can save you the inspection fee now. Don't buy it. The deformation of the front up on the "A" pillar to the roof is a critical point. If it has cracked then the car has been subjected to huge impact as when that section gives way, the shell is junk."

Paid him time and petrol and walked away. Sent a snotty to firm who said they would review the description. They didn't.

Sadly that looks familiar. Certainly "Not as decribed."

[Durzel]

Cold said:

There's no profit to be had in this particular car in today's market. Oddly the restorative costs between an S1 a late 4cyl car are broadly similar, but the resulting "value" of the finished product is very different.

An '88 Turbo isn't particularly sought after and its monetary value reflects this. The OP paid a reasonably, but not outlandishly, good price for the car featured in the advert but even a highly polished, virtually unused example would struggle at high-ish teens in monetary value.

If the OP didn't have to rely on specialists or experts to repair and restore his car then he might - might - just about break even. It would require a nut and bolt strip down to investigate pretty much everything. The chassis is galvanised but at this age could well be suffering from corrosion around the exhaust manifold area. I'm not too fussed by the state of the door mount/support as it's just bolted in, but they aren't available off the shelf. (It doubles up as a stiffening brace/mount under the dash too.)

What really concerns me is the crack at the top of the "A" pillar. That whole roof area is a Kevlar composite mix and is immensely strong. Restoring the strength is not a DIY job, but I'd be more interested in discovering what caused the damage. Going by the other GRP damage, is the body even straight? Is that why the sunroof has gone walkabout? What about the chassis?

This car is clearly not as described and has been utterly misrepresented in the advert. I wonder what the next move by the OP might be.

Thanks. OP should pay heed to this post I think.

[Welshbeef]

Scotty2 said:

When I was looking for a project, I saw an SE at a "Salvage" yard in Sheffield that said it had light frontal damage - easy repair.

Took a specialist with me who got within 20 m of the car and turned round and said "Look, I can save you the inspection fee now. Don't buy it. The deformation of the front up on the "A" pillar to the roof is a critical point. If it has cracked then the car has been subjected to huge impact as when that section gives way, the shell is junk."

Paid him time and petrol and walked away. Sent a snotty to firm who said they would review the description. They didn't.

Sadly that looks familiar. Certainly "Not as decribed."

That’s a good save.

[anonymous-user]

Scotty2 said:

When I was looking for a project, I saw an SE at a "Salvage" yard in Sheffield that said it had light frontal damage - easy repair.

Took a specialist with me who got within 20 m of the car and turned round and said "Look, I can save you the inspection fee now. Don't buy it. The deformation of the front up on the "A" pillar to the roof is a critical point. If it has cracked then the car has been subjected to huge impact as when that section gives way, the shell is junk."

Paid him time and petrol and walked away. Sent a snotty to firm who said they would review the description. They didn't.

Sadly that looks familiar. Certainly "Not as decribed."

Fool.

You should have taken Welshbeef with you.

"Go on, it'll be a great project. You can sell for £100,000 after repairing it for 'whatever figure I create out of thin air' (where I'll also assume you have the money to) using parts from a Ford Cortina."



OP - probably worth scouting legal firms who'll give you a free assessment / consultation to figure out what options may be available to you.

[t400ble]

Oldandslow said:

If you're looking for an example of how NOT to buy a car off the internet this pretty much ticks every box.

This. Go look prior, if not dont buy.

[berlintaxi]

S100HP said:

So Welshbeef was talking utter toss?

And in other news bears still defecate in wooded areas.

[Vaud]

berlintaxi said:

S100HP said:

So Welshbeef was talking utter toss?

And in other news bears still defecate in wooded areas.

And if a "buy 944" is clicked on in an empty forest, it doesn't make a sound.

[Gargamel]

Cold said:

Most internet talk about Lotus is tosh, even more so when it comes to the Esprit. I especially liked the idea someone had earlier of using a gearbox from a Renault 19. That was genius.

Was it not a Renault part ? I understood most of the Esprit cars either had the Citreon or the UN1 Renault transmission and gearbox ?

https://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Renault_UN1_16_Tr...

Oh it seems I made a terrible mistake... it was from a Renault 25

My bad ...

[Scotty2]

An an 1989 SE owner...

The gearbox is unique to the Esprit. It looks like a bog standard Renault, but It was a special version of the Uni modified internals e.t.c. Uni 16, then developed into the Hi Torque 26 with thicker casing webbing for the SE, and 27 for the V8. Crown wheel and pinion are different materials to the Renault unit for the increased torque and a special oil.

(Article on the gearbox in this months Club Lotus Mag so I cannot claim to have remembered this myself...)

[Gargamel]

Scotty2 said:

An an 1989 SE owner...

The gearbox is unique to the Esprit. It looks like a bog standard Renault, but It was a special version of the Uni modified internals e.t.c. Uni 16, then developed into the Hi Torque 26 with thicker casing webbing for the SE, and 27 for the V8. Crown wheel and pinion are different materials to the Renault unit for the increased torque and a special oil.

(Article on the gearbox in this months Club Lotus Mag so I cannot claim to have remembered this myself...)

Thanks - My original point, was that these are quite rare items these days, as are a number of Lotus parts, and Lotus aren't noted for low pricing on spares. (It was in response to the can't you fix it .... comments)

[matjk]

cut your losses and just burn it, then buy this one instead, a can of WD40 and some T-Cut would have it back on the road in no time https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Esprit-S4-1994-in...

[gazza285]

matjk said:

cut your losses and just burn it, then buy this one instead, a can of WD40 and some T-Cut would have it back on the road in no time https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Esprit-S4-1994-in...

Doner?

[Welshbeef]

Why are nearly all PH petrol head posters here basically saying what was a super car shouldn’t be cleaned instead send it to the scrapper.... have I just walked into Mumsnet?

I’m not sure why anyone would want to lose such a special car