Discussion
singlecoil said:
BlackTails said:
singlecoil said:
Since neither of us have provided any statistics, your post is a waste of words.
Not really. It has highlighted your confusion, for your benefit and for the benefit of anyone else reading the thread. Durzel said:
If you were on the defence side of this BV72 would you eschew making the same "I'm not racist but" inferrences about the "character" of the victim?
To be clear - slut shaming someone, usually women, for unconventional sexual kinks or even appetites is wrong, but at the same time isn't it a part of the job of the defence to try and diminish the culpability of the defendant? If your argument is that this was all a "sex game gone wrong", then clearly part of that defence rests on establishing that the victim was consenting and preferably encouraging.
Not knowing anything about BDSM though, and reading that transcript, if the account of the defendant is true - i.e. he was back on Tinder the same day, Googling burial and disposal stuff, etc, it certainly doesn't sound like the actions or mindset of a desperate man. The point about how long it takes to actually strangle someone to death, past the point of them losing consciousness, was hard to read too.
Has / can the distinction be made between 'slut shaming' someone and identifying a behaviour which may have caused or help to cause the circumstances of her death. Difficult when it comes to sex, I know, but - and bare with me here - what if the victim wss hit once in the head with a golf club, defence finds an old friend who testifies that the victim did indeed like to play golf but had a terrible habit of standing very close to his partner when they were teeing off.To be clear - slut shaming someone, usually women, for unconventional sexual kinks or even appetites is wrong, but at the same time isn't it a part of the job of the defence to try and diminish the culpability of the defendant? If your argument is that this was all a "sex game gone wrong", then clearly part of that defence rests on establishing that the victim was consenting and preferably encouraging.
Not knowing anything about BDSM though, and reading that transcript, if the account of the defendant is true - i.e. he was back on Tinder the same day, Googling burial and disposal stuff, etc, it certainly doesn't sound like the actions or mindset of a desperate man. The point about how long it takes to actually strangle someone to death, past the point of them losing consciousness, was hard to read too.
Other things about this case lead me to believe the guy is a dirty wrong'un though.
Edited by Hackney on Thursday 21st November 12:27
Hackney said:
Has / can the distinction be made between 'slut shaming' someone and identifying a behaviour which may have caused or help to cause the circumsatnces of her death. Difficult when it comes to sex, I know, but - and bare with me here - what if the victim wss hit once in the head with a golf club, defence finds an old friend who testifies that the victim did indeed like to play golf but had a terrible habit of standing very close to his partner when they were teeing off.
Other things about this case lead me to believe the guy is a dirty wrong'un though.
I hope you meant ‘bear with me’.Other things about this case lead me to believe the guy is a dirty wrong'un though.
Pica-Pica said:
Flumpo said:
Very sad case, as is any when a young person dies...
I don’t think age has anything to do with sadness in any (allegedly) murder cases.Flumpo said:
Pica-Pica said:
Flumpo said:
Very sad case, as is any when a young person dies...
I don’t think age has anything to do with sadness in any (allegedly) murder cases.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
I tend to deliberately ignore that stuff and lean toward a more logical and less emotional analysis of events.
lyonspride said:
Flumpo said:
Pica-Pica said:
Flumpo said:
Very sad case, as is any when a young person dies...
I don’t think age has anything to do with sadness in any (allegedly) murder cases.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
I tend to deliberately ignore that stuff and lean toward a more logical and less emotional analysis of events.
singlecoil said:
BlackTails said:
singlecoil said:
Since neither of us have provided any statistics, your post is a waste of words.
Not really. It has highlighted your confusion, for your benefit and for the benefit of anyone else reading the thread. Someone above asked what I would do if on the defence side in this case. Answer: I would not be there.
The cab rank rule is subject to specialism. I have taught criminal law to students, and done some regulatory and proceeds of crime related work in criminal courts, but I am not qualified by experience to take on a defence gig in a murder trial. This means that I do not face the ethical dilemmas that face criminal lawyers almost daily. Ever wonder why so many criminal lawyers drink too much?
Hypothetically, if defending anyone, the job is to do what is in the best interest of the client, subject to the constraints of professional ethics. I would not regard playing the blame the victim card as in the best interest of the client, on the facts of the case under discussion.
All I'll say further is that if he murdered her I hope he's put away for a long time and if he didn't then an appropriate sentence is also meted for what he is found to have done (whatever that may be and I'm f
ked if I know given the defence's suppositions about what went on).
And if he's found not guilty then he's not guilty and he has to live with the result of his actions and the consequences.
The closure for her family is the most important thing here on a human level.
ked if I know given the defence's suppositions about what went on). And if he's found not guilty then he's not guilty and he has to live with the result of his actions and the consequences.
The closure for her family is the most important thing here on a human level.
echazfraz said:
All I'll say further is that if he murdered her I hope he's put away for a long time and if he didn't then an appropriate sentence is also meted for what he is found to have done (whatever that may be and I'm fked if I know given the defence's suppositions about what went on).
And if he's found not guilty then he's not guilty and he has to live with the result of his actions and the consequences.
The closure for her family is the most important thing here on a human level.
There’s no chance he walks free. Sadly they won’t get closure if he’s found guilty of vanilla manslaughter. ked if I know given the defence's suppositions about what went on). And if he's found not guilty then he's not guilty and he has to live with the result of his actions and the consequences.
The closure for her family is the most important thing here on a human level.
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