Grassing up a Covid **** taker.

[Phil.]

grudas said:

you are literally delusional

So you didn't listen to any of the podcast by Dr Michael Yeadon who is ''an Allergy & Respiratory Therapeutic Area expert, developed out of deep knowledge of biology & therapeutics and is an innovative drug discoverer with 23y in the pharmaceutical industry. He trained as a biochemist and pharmacologist, obtaining his PhD from the University of Surrey (UK) in 1988 on the CNS and peripheral pharmacology of opioids on respiration.''

Rather you decided to keep your head in the sand, or wherever you choose to shove it, and call me 'delusional'. Proves my point entirely.

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

Thank you Killboy you've just proved my point that we are not in a pandemic anymore and what we are seeing now is the much lower and expected seasonal affect of a flu virus. Certainly nothing worthy of lockdowns and other restrictions.

I've added a couple of lines to your graph to highlight what a pandemic looks like in terms of rate of increasing deaths, and to show when its not a pandemic because the increase in deaths is much lower, seasonal in fact. The pandemic has gone, we're in a political casedemic now.

We have another 60 days to go. If the rates continue to climb, we can throw out all the BS you've spouted.

You had better hope that the death rate starts to climb somewhat quicker and soon if we are going to enter another pandemic, rather than experience a normal seasonal increase in deaths of mainly old people, before you can call out any BS

[NGee]

otolith said:

NGee said:

The lockdown is the cause of the situation we are now in. The effect of this is that millions of people have suffered mental, financial or medical disaster.

The lockdown was certainly a significant cause of economic damage, as were the milder social distancing measures that followed, and both directly and indirectly through economic damage there have been impacts on health. Whether they have been worse than the direct and indirect impacts of unmitigated Covid transmission on physical and mental health is the nub of disagreement, as is to what extent the consequences of Covid should have been shared by the community or restricted to individuals.

I do get the impression that people who believe that lockdown has made matters worse also tend to believe that it is an individual rather than a community problem and vice versa, so I think people are letting their politics colour their facts.

Thank you for a reasoned and polite reply, a rarity on this thread!

I do agree with you that there is far too much politics attached to the whole situation, both from the government and individuals. If decisions were based on any form of fact then all the UK governments would be singing off the same song sheet, as opposed to point scoring which seems to be the default position at the moment.

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

You had better hope that the death rate starts to climb somewhat quicker and soon if we are going to enter another pandemic, rather than experience a normal seasonal increase in deaths of mainly old people, before you can call out any BS

I’ll just quote your predictions, and let people make up their own minds.

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

They're on different x-axis scales, A is around half that of B. Therefore if you're asking about total deaths then A is probably lower overall but its difficult to tell.

Edited by Phil. on Monday 26th October 13:02

Lol wut? Okay. Well is was being disingenuous anyways. A is a deaths, and B is infections. Would you like to see B’s deaths before making up your mind?

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

They're on different x-axis scales, A is around half that of B. Therefore if you're asking about total deaths then A is probably lower overall but its difficult to tell.

Edited by Phil. on Monday 26th October 13:02

Lol wut? Okay. Well is was being disingenuous anyways. A is a deaths, and B is infections. Would you like to see B’s deaths before making up your mind?

Oh, an impossible question Explain the point you wish to make if you want .

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

Killboy said:

Phil. said:

They're on different x-axis scales, A is around half that of B. Therefore if you're asking about total deaths then A is probably lower overall but its difficult to tell.

Edited by Phil. on Monday 26th October 13:02

Lol wut? Okay. Well is was being disingenuous anyways. A is a deaths, and B is infections. Would you like to see B’s deaths before making up your mind?

Oh, an impossible question Explain the point you wish to make if you want .

Here its is! Perhaps you could use NZ as the yardstick as clearly they have a much better handle on Covid.


For comparison, Sweden.


Why would you follow Sweden's approach rather than NZ's? I mean, that's pretty clear right?

[Jasandjules]

Can I just check, CV19 has been fully isolated now so tests are confirming 100% that a positive means the infection is CV19, correct?

[otolith]

Jasandjules said:

Can I just check, CV19 has been fully isolated now so tests are confirming 100% that a positive means the infection is CV19, correct?

Dunno, could be that a rogue homeopath has sneezed into a reservoir.

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Here its is! Perhaps you could use NZ as the yardstick as clearly they have a much better handle on Covid.


For comparison, Sweden.


Why would you follow Sweden's approach rather than NZ's? I mean, that's pretty clear right?

NZ are idiots. As soon as they open their borders they are fked. They have very little immunity and plenty of ‘dry tinder’ for COVID to ‘rip through’. All the best to them though.

Whereas Sweden has no lockdown, open borders and has just posted the least number of deaths during September for many years. COVID related deaths are in single figures per day.

[Killboy]

Phil. said:

NZ are idiots. As soon as they open their borders they are fked. They have very little immunity and plenty of ‘dry tinder’ for COVID to ‘rip through’. All the best to them though.

Whereas Sweden has no lockdown, open borders and has just posted the least number of deaths during September for many years. COVID related deaths are in single figures per day.

Of course. Anything to fit the Sweden narrative.

Edited by Killboy on Monday 26th October 17:19

[Phil.]

After a small peak in Sept the number of people seeking medical help for COVID continues to fall. Now that’s a positive sign isn’t it!





https://twitter.com/ukcovid19stats/status/13206760...

[Killboy]

Ah, I need to make a correction. I mistakenly went to Switzerland's page to screenshot data rather than Sweden in the first post above. It doesn't change the outcome much, but Switzerland's deaths are increasing, while Sweden's are not. NZ still kicks the st out of them, but I dont want you to think I'm miss-representing things.

To be clear:
Switzerland


Sweden

[Phil.]

Killboy said:

Ah, I need to make a correction. I mistakenly went to Switzerland's page to screenshot data rather than Sweden in the first post above. It doesn't change the outcome much, but Switzerland's deaths are increasing, while Sweden's are not. NZ still kicks the st out of them, but I dont want you to think I'm miss-representing things.

To be clear:
Switzerland


Sweden

Appreciate the honesty

Sweden's all good then

NZ is a basket case waiting to happen cos' this virus is not going anywhere its just looking for its next hotspot.

[BrundanBianchi]

The rate at which the Covid hospitalisations are occurring is much less than in the first wave, which is what the control measurements are designed to do, but they are still happening. We’re not in winter yet though. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Hopefully the therapeutic treatments / drugs that we know about now, will stop the death rates we saw in wave 1 as well, again the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, when we reach winter. Last night I went to a Toby carvery, with the intention of eating there. This particular Toby Carvery had introduced a new system, where the servers took your order, they then had the carvery staff do their thing, and brought it to you. This worked, and was a relatively ‘Covid secure’ way of doing it. However, last night I discovered they were allowing people to queue up at the carvery, but not actually help themselves, but rather have the servers plate up to their wishes. Unfortunately, although that may be allowed ( by some sort of loophole) I really didn’t appreciate it, so declined to queue up, and left. How is that different to letting people stand at a bar? I didn’t think it was within the rules, so I decided to go elsewhere.

[grudas]

Phil. said:

Appreciate the honesty

Sweden's all good then

NZ is a basket case waiting to happen cos' this virus is not going anywhere its just looking for its next hotspot.

But it's just a flu so why should they worry

Sweden is far from good.

In general we should not compare countries as they are very different.

You could compare UK to say France, NL, Belgium, Germany. Not NZ or Sweden.

But it's clear why our numbers are bad.

Government
Trust in government
And people who think they know better

• Waits for Phil to respond with "head sand something chart*

[markyb_lcy]

otolith said:

I do get the impression that people who believe that lockdown has made matters worse also tend to believe that it is an individual rather than a community problem and vice versa, so I think people are letting their politics colour their facts.

I think it’s more about philosophy than politics, much as people do like to politicise these things.

[WinstonWolf]

grudas said:

Phil. said:

Appreciate the honesty

Sweden's all good then

NZ is a basket case waiting to happen cos' this virus is not going anywhere its just looking for its next hotspot.

But it's just a flu so why should they worry

Sweden is far from good.

In general we should not compare countries as they are very different.

You could compare UK to say France, NL, Belgium, Germany. Not NZ or Sweden.

But it's clear why our numbers are bad.

Government
Trust in government
And people who think they know better

• Waits for Phil to respond with "head sand something chart*

Are single figure or zero deaths per day since 23rd June not good then?

[Phil.]

Grudas can’t get his head out the sand long enough to understand Sweden’s success

No to continued lockdowns

[Sticks.]

I can't remember, is it that half of Sweden's population lives alone, or half of households are one person?

I admire them for not following every other country, but their situation is very different to England, with densely populated areas and muliti-generational families.

My guess would be that Germany's outcomes would be a better comparison to the UK.