TV licensing (Capita) impersonating police officers?

[J2daG1990]

Tired said:

I still pay for a TV licence. Since I moved house last year, I haven't watched any live TV. Don't have sky or cable installed, and there's no aerial etc. in the attic or on the roof.

I think I'll cancel it.

Not only should you cancel it but you should also do as much as possible to get your money back, especially if you can prove what you say.

[illmonkey]

J2daG1990 said:

Tired said:

I still pay for a TV licence. Since I moved house last year, I haven't watched any live TV. Don't have sky or cable installed, and there's no aerial etc. in the attic or on the roof.

I think I'll cancel it.

Not only should you cancel it but you should also do as much as possible to get your money back, especially if you can prove what you say.

I recently no longer required a licence, the cancelling part is fairly simple, but they need ridiculous paperwork to prove it for a refund. I had to print(!) a form, declare I no longer require one and that I do not go sailing on a wednesday, then provide them with one item from this list.

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-on...

Then, if you're lucky, the stars align and it's a Wednesday with temperatures above 5degrees, you'll be issued a refund. But, only if your account ends in a 9 and you happen to be wearing a hat, even then it takes neigh on a month for them to count the pennies from the collection jars the bds steal from charity events, before they can pay it into your account. s.

[Funk]

Atomic12C said:

funkyrobot said:

I've told my wife that if anyone comes to the house, ask them who they are. If they say TVL, just steadily shut the door and don't say anything..

This is the recommended practice these days.


On this subject there is news that BBC are becoming pi$hed off with general public deciding they don't want to view live broad casts anymore and as such they are reportedly upping their efforts to harass and try to catch people out.

Apparently TV licence evasion is up to 6% in the UK, and they have a target to reduce that down to 5% over the coming year or two. (up to 10% for Scotland)

I think they still haven't realised or accepted that people no longer have the same desires to watch live broadcast TV in the modern age of internet streaming and pre-loaded catch-up content.

Of course there will be some that are flouting the system, but then again the system is well out of touch with modern times.

It's avoidance (which is legal), not evasion (which isn't)... The BBC like to conflate the terms to insinuate wrong-doing. But you're right; the BBC seem incapable of accepting that people like Funkyrobot (and me) simply don't want or need live TV or iPlayer.

I've got Amazon Prime, NetFlix and I watch a lot on YouTube - I'd just like them to leave me alone and stop sending the threatograms every month.

[BertBert]

So, does that mean that 94% of the UK buys a TV licence? Or 94% of people who need one buy one?
Bert

[Atomic12C]

Funk said:

I've got Amazon Prime, NetFlix and I watch a lot on YouTube - I'd just like them to leave me alone and stop sending the threatograms every month.

I'm in a similar boat.
I used to have Prime but now all I watch is subject specific youtube content and the occasional catch up on ITV, C4 or C5 etc.

I consume nothing at home from the BBC apart from their news website page.

I've been thinking of not filling out the self declaration form, but always thought this would make the property a 'target' for regular nuisance calls by their salesmen.

[LordFlathead]

I've not had a TV license for ten years now. Sure I miss Attenborough from time to time but other than that even hearing their name makes my blood boil. The cover-up's and scandals, their huge political bias, but the biggest reason was the non-stop harassment I receive through the letter box. I've had threat after threat about house visits - I've even been threatened with a television detector van - seriously! I had immense pleasure in asking him how he can measure spurious RF through a cable connection..

I have a few TV's - check.
I have a projector - check.
I have a heap of PC's and laptops -check.
I also have a Virgin Tivo Box - check! But it is not connected to the coaxial nor the mains. I have it because it is part of my package with broadband and home and Virgin won't let me send it back unless I get rid of those services.. then my broadband is more expensive than having all three.

The BBC is outdated, the kids don't watch TV they are all glued to the web. It's about time the Bullst Broadcasting Company got retired.

[Funk]

Atomic12C said:

Funk said:

I've got Amazon Prime, NetFlix and I watch a lot on YouTube - I'd just like them to leave me alone and stop sending the threatograms every month.

I'm in a similar boat.
I used to have Prime but now all I watch is subject specific youtube content and the occasional catch up on ITV, C4 or C5 etc.

I consume nothing at home from the BBC apart from their news website page.

[b]I've been thinking of not filling out the self declaration form, but always thought this would make the property a 'target' for regular nuisance calls by their salesmen.[b/]

They'll leave you alone for 2 years if you cough up your personal details (not that that's a reason to do so). After that the letters start, addressed to 'The Legal Occupier' and they start you on the cycle - fairly innocuous at first but then ramping up in implied threat. You may well get door knocks (I've not ever had one in the 7-8 years I've been licence-free though).

It's the implication that I'm doing something illegal and the threat of 'sending someone round' to doorstep me that really grate. I don't need a licence. I don't have to tell them I don't need a licence. They can - and should - FRO and leave me in peace.

[Shuvi McTupya]

gillywig2 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKqwbEHS2w

That is shocking, and quite frankly makes me ashamed to be British. We are supposed to be able to trust the police.

[vikingaero]

Shuvi McTupya said:

gillywig2 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKqwbEHS2w

That is shocking, and quite frankly makes me ashamed to be British. We are supposed to be able to trust the police.

If the TV Licensing turn up at your address, or somewhere you are staying:

Rule No.1 Don't open the door to them or let them in.
Rule No.2 Give a believable but false name - that is no Mickey Mouse or Hong Kong Phooey - they can ask for ID but you are under no legal obligation to provide it.
Rule No.3 They will ask you to switch on the equipment. You have no legal obligation to do so
Rule No.4 The Police can "assist" with entry sometimes without a warrant - Police Officers do not know all parts of the law.
Rule No.5 Record them on your mobile. They secretly hate it.

[Mojooo]

The guy in the first video (if you click on his link) was found guilty of obstruction and fined.

In relation to the warrant and the Police I can understand their reasoning for attending...
1- the law says you need a licence in certain cases
2- TVL have gone to the court and convinced the court a warrant is needed and therefore a warrant is issued
3 - its likely that something will kick off (breach of peace).

I can therefore understand why Polcie will attend when there is a warrant and it might kick off.

After that though they should just keep out of it until it does kick off.

[The Mad Monk]

vikingaero said:

Rule No.5 Record them on your mobile. They secretly hate it.

Rule No. 6 Make sure the mobile is in landscape mode. I hate it when it isn't.

[Shuvi McTupya]

Mojooo said:

The guy in the first video (if you click on his link) was found guilty of obstruction and fined.

In relation to the warrant and the Police I can understand their reasoning for attending...
1- the law says you need a licence in certain cases
2- TVL have gone to the court and convinced the court a warrant is needed and therefore a warrant is issued
3 - its likely that something will kick off (breach of peace).

I can therefore understand why Polcie will attend when there is a warrant and it might kick off.

After that though they should just keep out of it until it does kick off.

Yeah but in that second video they announce they had a warrant but when questioned they said they would go away and get a warrant if they were refused entry!

It seemed quite plain to me that both the police and the Capita agents were in cahoots and blatantly telling porky pies about why they were there and what the law was!

[Mojooo]

Shuvi McTupya said:

Mojooo said:

The guy in the first video (if you click on his link) was found guilty of obstruction and fined.

In relation to the warrant and the Police I can understand their reasoning for attending...
1- the law says you need a licence in certain cases
2- TVL have gone to the court and convinced the court a warrant is needed and therefore a warrant is issued
3 - its likely that something will kick off (breach of peace).

I can therefore understand why Polcie will attend when there is a warrant and it might kick off.

After that though they should just keep out of it until it does kick off.

Yeah but in that second video they announce they had a warrant but when questioned they said they would go away and get a warrant if they were refused entry!

It seemed quite plain to me that both the police and the Capita agents were in cahoots and blatantly telling porky pies about why they were there and what the law was!

I suspect that was more down to the Polcie not knowing the law rather than an attempt of some form of wider collusion as the person who made the video suggested re Capita.

[Shuvi McTupya]

Mojooo said:

I suspect that was more down to the Polcie not knowing the law rather than an attempt of some form of wider collusion as the person who made the video suggested re Capita.

I always thought that ignorance of the law was not a defense. Surely that goes double if you are there to enforce the law!

[guindilias]

Drop a quick (recorded delivery) letter to Mrs. Pipa Doubtfire - at the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/corporate2/insidethebbc/mana...

Capita made up an entirely false statement when I was stupid enough to let one of their mob in around 15 years ago - apparently I had a silver Wharfedale TV, tuned to BBC1 and was watching it.
I didn't have a TV at all at the time, as I had just bought my house. Apparently I was sitting watching it from a brown leather sofa which I didn't own.
FFS, I didn't even own floorboards - I was sitting on a Mk2 VW Golf Gti back seat at the time, recovering from knocking in about 200 floor brads (and another 600 to go!)
My mum happened to be there at the time, and recorded this fine young gentleman from Capita. (with a bit of foul language on my part).
A month later, I received a summons to court - I sent her the recording (tape player days!) and around a week later "I have decided to drop the charges - it appears Mr. ****** made an incorrect decision - you are no longer required to appear at court".

My barrister appeared at court anyway, and I was granted £600 in damages - charged me £100 and gave the rest to me in cash. I was going to give it to charity - then I slept on it and thought "I'm not really that nice a person all" - so I bought another Mk2 Gti, and let the charity (Simon Community) know what an unpleasant person Pipa was.
She donated £1000 to the charity, and explained that it was not her role to enforce fines.

How I laughed... Capita have never visited since.

[Funk]

vikingaero said:

gillywig2 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKqwbEHS2w

That is shocking, and quite frankly makes me ashamed to be British. We are supposed to be able to trust the police.

If the TV Licensing turn up at your address, or somewhere you are staying:

Rule No.1 Don't open the door to them or let them in.
Rule No.2 Give a believable but false name - that is no Mickey Mouse or Hong Kong Phooey - they can ask for ID but you are under no legal obligation to provide it.
Rule No.3 They will ask you to switch on the equipment. You have no legal obligation to do so
Rule No.4 The Police can "assist" with entry sometimes without a warrant - Police Officers do not know all parts of the law.
Rule No.5 Record them on your mobile. They secretly hate it.

There is a major caveat to this - if TVL show up with a warrant (which is often why they'll have the Police in tow - see Mojoo's point below about 'breach of the peace') then you MUST allow them in - as Mojoo points out TVL often won't get anywhere on the warrant itself (they're usually baseless and TVL have managed to swindle a judge into signing it) but they ARE successful on getting people prosecuted for obstruction of the warrant - and handily have the Police there to confirm...

If they are there with a warrant, let them in and exercise your right to remain completely silent. Do not do anything to obstruct the warrant, they'll happily try and do you for it.

Mojooo said:

The guy in the first video (if you click on his link) was found guilty of obstruction and fined.

In relation to the warrant and the Police I can understand their reasoning for attending...
1- the law says you need a licence in certain cases
2- TVL have gone to the court and convinced the court a warrant is needed and therefore a warrant is issued
3 - its likely that something will kick off (breach of peace).

I can therefore understand why Police will attend when there is a warrant and it might kick off.

After that though they should just keep out of it until it does kick off.

Agreed - I would also be checking with the Police whether refusing to do or say something would be construed as obstructing the warrant. If they say 'no' then there is no chance that TVL can later try to get you on that basis. And yes, record the whole thing on your phone.

Warrants are, on the whole, extremely rare and often TVL get one because the homeowner did or said something stupid in previous interactions with TVL.

Edited by Funk on Wednesday 6th February 21:53

[guindilias]

I've got knives in the kitchen, but I'm not going to stab anyone!"

[sgtBerbatov]

For years I've not wanted to pay the TV license. I don't really watch anything on the BBC, in fairness most of the stuff I watch is on the internet anyway. The wife, however, loves EastEnders. So I/We are paying £145 a year to watch that st.

[Russian Troll Bot]

The fact a private corporation can act in such a way is nothing short of a disgrace - car insurance is a legal requirement, yet the DVLA don't send goons to every property where none is held demanding proof that they don't own a car. But even though the entire system is hopelessly archaic, the BBC is seen as a sacred cow to those in charge so I doubt it will change (or at least not for the better, I can see them pushing for it to cover the likes of Netflix as well).

[Mojooo]

The BBC has 'public backing' though doesn't it as it is protected in law and soem may argue licence fee payers want non payers caught the same way we want train fare dodger caught...