£144 per hour for non emergency plumber

[Flibble]

mangos said:

Thank you. Will do this.
Is it something I can submit to them via email or am I best to send recorded letters at this point?

I will treat the second letter separately and respond accordingly

In theory email should be fine, but it might be worth sending it by post to make sure they pay attention.

[Driver101]

Not so long ago I was ripped off by an electrician. They charged for more hours than worked and dragged out work when here. Simple jobs dragged on for hours and the young lad that was here admitted to us that he couldn't do the work.

Trading Standards didn't really help. All they advised was the company has a right to be paid. I could dispute it, but the company would have a right to take me to court. They weren't interested that the company were clearly ripping us off and sent out a young lad not up to a satisfactory standard.

[bad company]

stuthe said:

Re second letter all it says is, 'it has come to our attention that'..

I'd write under seperate cover to that letter something like the following.
...

Thank you for bringing your concern to my attention.

I am quite unable to work out what I have posted that could illicit this reaction from you. Could you explicitly outline your complaint?

As per your request, I have responded to the debt collection issue under sepreate cover.

blah

Sounds good.

[red_slr]

red_slr said:

I have read the whole thread and I cant see anyone (maybe I missed it) mention how your contract was formed?

This will be the basis for the small claim case.

We know what work was done, minimal. We know what you were charged. It seems to be disproportional but what was *actually* agreed?

How was it agreed, when was it agreed. (email, phone, in person?)

Did you sign anything?

Until we have this detail its difficult to know how this might pan out or give advice on how to move forward.

OP - thoughts on this?

[mangos]

red_slr said:

red_slr said:

I have read the whole thread and I cant see anyone (maybe I missed it) mention how your contract was formed?

This will be the basis for the small claim case.

We know what work was done, minimal. We know what you were charged. It seems to be disproportional but what was *actually* agreed?

How was it agreed, when was it agreed. (email, phone, in person?)

Did you sign anything?

Until we have this detail its difficult to know how this might pan out or give advice on how to move forward.

OP - thoughts on this?

I’m not too sure how I would have entered into a contract.
I didn’t sign anything prior to the visit, I did sign for the bill when they wouldn’t leave my house.

I didjt agree to anything prior to the visit or during so no verbal contract would have been entered.

Not too sure if there is any other way I could have entered something without my knowledge

[bad company]

mangos said:

I’m not too sure how I would have entered into a contract.
I didn’t sign anything prior to the visit, I did sign for the bill when they wouldn’t leave my house.

I didjt agree to anything prior to the visit or during so no verbal contract would have been entered.

Not too sure if there is any other way I could have entered something without my knowledge

Signed under duress with a baby in arms.

[red_slr]

If there was no contract then that would be the basis of your defence - which would be black and white.

Did you receive a copy after you singed?

Does it state their terms and conditions?

What is the wording where you signed?

This is more important at this stage than anything else, IMHO having been to small claims a few times. (IANAL)

[red_slr]

bad company said:

mangos said:

I’m not too sure how I would have entered into a contract.
I didn’t sign anything prior to the visit, I did sign for the bill when they wouldn’t leave my house.

I didjt agree to anything prior to the visit or during so no verbal contract would have been entered.

Not too sure if there is any other way I could have entered something without my knowledge

Signed under duress with a baby in arms.

Unless VC'd I doubt you could claim duress without additional evidence. Like I said above IANAL!

[mangos]

red_slr said:

If there was no contract then that would be the basis of your defence - which would be black and white.

Did you receive a copy after you singed?

Does it state their terms and conditions?

What is the wording where you signed?

This is more important at this stage than anything else, IMHO having been to small claims a few times. (IANAL)

The terms were overleaf.
I didn’t know this until they left.
I just wanted them out of my house, I was one handed and they held the paper down for me on my table whilst I signed it.

Idiotic of me, and maybe if this is what it will come down to I should just pay up and be done with it and chalk it up to a very bad experience

[bad company]

mangos said:

The terms were overleaf.
I didn’t know this until they left.
I just wanted them out of my house, I was one handed and they held the paper down for me on my table whilst I signed it.

Idiotic of me, and maybe if this is what it will come down to I should just pay up and be done with it and chalk it up to a very bad experience

No, please don’t fold now. There really is no need.

[Hoofy]

You should have mentioned this at the top of the thread.

Be interested to see what Trading Standards have to say about it.

[mangos]

I have no proof of anything. Itl be just my words against theirs if it goes to court.

[mangos]

Hoofy said:

You should have mentioned this at the top of the thread.

Be interested to see what Trading Standards have to say about it.

Which bit?
I thought I had covered everything

[Hoofy]

Dunno how it works. If it's true, I shall get local pensioners to sign wills to me under duress.

mangos said:

Hoofy said:

You should have mentioned this at the top of the thread.

Be interested to see what Trading Standards have to say about it.

Which bit?
I thought I had covered everything

I don't remember reading that you signed the doc with the T&Cs overleaf.

[Pica-Pica]

bad company said:

stuthe said:

Re second letter all it says is, 'it has come to our attention that'..

I'd write under seperate cover to that letter something like the following.
...

Thank you for bringing your concern to my attention.

I am quite unable to work out what I have posted that could illicit this reaction from you. Could you explicitly outline your complaint?

As per your request, I have responded to the debt collection issue under sepreate cover.

blah

Sounds good.

Sounds bad.
‘Elicit’ not ‘illicit’
‘Separate’ not ‘sepreate’ or even ‘seperate’

[bad company]

Pica-Pica said:

Sounds bad.
‘Elicit’ not ‘illicit’
‘Separate’ not ‘sepreate’ or even ‘seperate’

[red_slr]

mangos said:

red_slr said:

If there was no contract then that would be the basis of your defence - which would be black and white.

Did you receive a copy after you singed?

Does it state their terms and conditions?

What is the wording where you signed?

This is more important at this stage than anything else, IMHO having been to small claims a few times. (IANAL)

The terms were overleaf.
I didn’t know this until they left.
I just wanted them out of my house, I was one handed and they held the paper down for me on my table whilst I signed it.

Idiotic of me, and maybe if this is what it will come down to I should just pay up and be done with it and chalk it up to a very bad experience

From what you say they will have a case. However, you could ask for mediation. This will be the first thing the Court will offer you. If they (the claimant) agree to this (maybe they will maybe they wont) then you might be able to reduce the bill. (mediation is actually a pretty easy process and if they offer it I would do it - all done over the phone).

If they refuse then its basically you going into a room and telling the story to a judge. They are only interested in facts though. So bear that in mind. Your best bet there is to either find a technicality in their contract with you or claim that the T&Cs were not clear. (this is why many companies will ask you to initial next to the major points of the contract, such as for hire cars as an example)

Next, if you lose the case you will not get a CCJ unless you don't pay up in full within, IIRC, 28 days.

Or, you could ask for the judgement to be set aside in certain circumstances (may not (probably wont) apply though).

Finally the bailiffs can only be instructed after the judgement and with a Court Warrant. So up until the point you lose you hold the cards as the defendant.

I am trying to help you out, however you a) probably need to see a solicitor (any friends or family given its a minor case?) and b) you need to be very clear with them what happened, exactly what was discussed and provide the paperwork. Remember they cant claim their solicitors fees.... neither can you if you win.

I am still interested to know what it says where you signed on the document, the wording there may form the basis of your defence.

Again IANAL and all IMHO having been to small claims a few times. HTH.

[bad company]

red_slr said:

From what you say they will have a case. However, you could ask for mediation. This will be the first thing the Court will offer you. If they (the claimant) agree to this (maybe they will maybe they wont) then you might be able to reduce the bill. (mediation is actually a pretty easy process and if they offer it I would do it - all done over the phone).

If they refuse then its basically you going into a room and telling the story to a judge. They are only interested in facts though. So bear that in mind. Your best bet there is to either find a technicality in their contract with you or claim that the T&Cs were not clear. (this is why many companies will ask you to initial next to the major points of the contract, such as for hire cars as an example)

Next, if you lose the case you will not get a CCJ unless you don't pay up in full within, IIRC, 28 days.

Or, you could ask for the judgement to be set aside in certain circumstances (may not (probably wont) apply though).

Finally the bailiffs can only be instructed after the judgement and with a Court Warrant. So up until the point you lose you hold the cards as the defendant.

I am trying to help you out, however you a) probably need to see a solicitor (any friends or family given its a minor case?) and b) you need to be very clear with them what happened, exactly what was discussed and provide the paperwork. Remember they cant claim their solicitors fees.... neither can you if you win.

I am still interested to know what it says where you signed on the document, the wording there may form the basis of your defence.

Again IANAL and all IMHO having been to small claims a few times. HTH.

The plumbing firm would only be able to claim the money they consider owed. They’re very unlikely to get costs so expensive for them to pursue this and no guarantee they would win.

I don’t think the op needs a solicitor, that would be a considerable and unrecoverable expense. I’d let the plumber make the next move.

Edited by bad company on Sunday 24th June 16:16

[mangos]

I never saw any t’s and c’s before booking or during the visit,

This is something I’ve discussed with trading standards in detail.

They never at one point made it clear or pointed out that I would be charged for them not doing any work.

I signed to get them out of my house, I didn’t want an argument with them inside my house when I’d been trying to get them to leave and my baby was also needing my attention.

I’m a bit worried that if they can win a case because I signed a contract I didn’t have the opportunity to read that there is no point me trying to fight this.

It was an ordeal in itself just having them in my house.

I have no proof of anything for the courts as the only paperwork I have was the bill they presented at the end and then the email correspondence that followed that they chose to ignore.

[mangos]

What’s frustrating is I was very reasonable and polite to them during the visit and in the emails that followed.

I understood that they wanted a considerable amount of money but on the basis that they did nothing and that I had paid them some money already I was open to discussion and would have negotiated maybe a small additional fee just to get this to go away.