Road Safety Van Causes Accident .
Discussion
My first reaction was along the SafeSpeed lines - see a scamera, check speedo. Its automatic now. Just a glance can eat up that safe distance very quickly.
Christ, the number of people you see these days driving UNDER the limit who hit the brakes when they see a camera is scary. These things are a menace and serve no useful purpose whatsoever, not in ANY situation. Nowhere.
Blow em all up!
Christ, the number of people you see these days driving UNDER the limit who hit the brakes when they see a camera is scary. These things are a menace and serve no useful purpose whatsoever, not in ANY situation. Nowhere.
Blow em all up!
mondeoman said:
My first reaction was along the SafeSpeed lines - see a scamera, check speedo. Its automatic now. Just a glance can eat up that safe distance very quickly.
Furthermore, you also know that as soon as you see the van, it can see you and is probably zapping/filming you as a matter of course (as opposed to confirming a suspicion
), so what's the "sensible" course of action? Hit the brakes whilst checking your speed. Many of the BiB say it doesn't happen, but human nature says it does. As an experiment, camp out next to your favourite GATSO or Scamera van and just watch 95% of people hit the brakes.
Safety, my ar$e.
Indeed - mine looks like it houses a couple of airbags already! 
Tonyrec said:
Sadly thou, it doesnt have to be a Camera Van. A parked up Trafpol car has the same effect.
(When i say parked up i dont mean being sneaky......simply being at an Accident scene is good enough nowadays)
vs
safespeed said:
Speed cameras (uniquely amongst hazards) tend to make some drivers look away from the road and down at the speedo.
my experience favours the first view.
The worst scenario of the camera causing accidents as got to be the M4 travelling through Port Talbot South Wales. An average stretch of motorway for which some authority as decided to limit the motorway speed to 50mph. No prior warning just a sign stating 50mph followed by a static camera. You can imagine the harsh braking to avoid capture which gets extremely dangerous in wet slippery conditions.
There as been numerous accidents due to the restriction however, they do not print the stats.
There as been numerous accidents due to the restriction however, they do not print the stats.
In Cambridgeshire they are wondering why there are so many accidents on the A14 and are thinking of lowering the limit to 50mph.
When I travel on that road I regularly see people panic brake at the cameras from 70mph down to 55. This ALWAYS results in bunching and further panic braking. Sometimes I pass these sites and accidents have taken place. I hope I'm not to be involved but if I had to use that section of road more often would get the biggest, ugliest 4X4 I could find. (Chevy Suburban, Dodge RAM?)
This would tie in with a survey AutoExpress did a couple of years back which indicated that more than 50% of drivers thought the dual carriageway limit to be 60mph and single carriageways 50mph (It would also explain some of the "numpties").
It looks to me that public information films to tell people what our NSLs really are might make a bigger difference than lowering the limit.
On the other hand lowering the limit may stop the panic braking by people who were unwittingly under the speed limit and bring in MORE MONEY. (This is a win-win situation for the government as they make more cash and unadvertently reduce accidents at the same time).
When I travel on that road I regularly see people panic brake at the cameras from 70mph down to 55. This ALWAYS results in bunching and further panic braking. Sometimes I pass these sites and accidents have taken place. I hope I'm not to be involved but if I had to use that section of road more often would get the biggest, ugliest 4X4 I could find. (Chevy Suburban, Dodge RAM?)
This would tie in with a survey AutoExpress did a couple of years back which indicated that more than 50% of drivers thought the dual carriageway limit to be 60mph and single carriageways 50mph (It would also explain some of the "numpties").
It looks to me that public information films to tell people what our NSLs really are might make a bigger difference than lowering the limit.
On the other hand lowering the limit may stop the panic braking by people who were unwittingly under the speed limit and bring in MORE MONEY. (This is a win-win situation for the government as they make more cash and unadvertently reduce accidents at the same time).
cdp said:
In Cambridgeshire they are wondering why there are so many accidents on the A14 and are thinking of lowering the limit to 50mph.
On the other hand lowering the limit may stop the panic braking by people who were unwittingly under the speed limit and bring in MORE MONEY. (This is a win-win situation for the government as they make more cash and unadvertently reduce accidents at the same time).
Err, no it wont, people will still panic brake, so lowering the speed limit serves no purpose other than creating more opportunity for revenue generation.
gh0st said:Steady on gh0st! You know that our all new especially careful Speed
Due care and attention at it's finest...Muppetry also..
can't say who was being a muppet... especially if he was referring to scammers 
.I would like to offer the following experiment for anybody who thinks braking suddenly is a good idea.
I have had to wean my girlfriend off this. Any percived threat to her safety, brakes applied hard. Instant panic reaction.
Usually followed a second later by the car behind locking up and screaming towards us. It was getting so bad it was creating more of a risk to us than any pontential danger she may have avoided.
I have had to teach her to brake progressively, and "flash" her brake lights before braking hard.
In my unwitting experiment, 80% of drivers behind us locked up when we braked hard unexpectedly.
I have had to wean my girlfriend off this. Any percived threat to her safety, brakes applied hard. Instant panic reaction.
Usually followed a second later by the car behind locking up and screaming towards us. It was getting so bad it was creating more of a risk to us than any pontential danger she may have avoided.
I have had to teach her to brake progressively, and "flash" her brake lights before braking hard.
In my unwitting experiment, 80% of drivers behind us locked up when we braked hard unexpectedly.
I personally have no problem with camera vans in 30/40mph limits, because I always stick to these (as generally they are in built up areas where it is sensible to stick to the limit).
I do however have a problem with them in 50/60/70 limits, where I am arguably quite safe doing 60/80/90, but would be in a world of cr@p (well points anyway) if I were caught at those speeds.
Recent examples of this were a van on the A34 near Stafford, cresting a small hill at 80mph (60 limit) and suddenly meeting a camera van parked in a layby. Fortunately a combination of the crest and a car on the inside lane unsighted my numberplate from their camera, so I never heard anything of it.
Then yesterday afternoon there was a trap set Southbound on the M6 toll road that I went through at a reasonable 85-90mph on an almost deserted road. I was again fortunate because the second car was busy with a previous customer, so I cruised straight on through without being stopped. However, I wouldn't have thought that the person already pulled was going any faster than myself, and I really do not think it is fair when it is a speed most people do (safely) every day on a clear motorway.
>> Edited by Jolley on Tuesday 28th September 16:24
I do however have a problem with them in 50/60/70 limits, where I am arguably quite safe doing 60/80/90, but would be in a world of cr@p (well points anyway) if I were caught at those speeds.
Recent examples of this were a van on the A34 near Stafford, cresting a small hill at 80mph (60 limit) and suddenly meeting a camera van parked in a layby. Fortunately a combination of the crest and a car on the inside lane unsighted my numberplate from their camera, so I never heard anything of it.
Then yesterday afternoon there was a trap set Southbound on the M6 toll road that I went through at a reasonable 85-90mph on an almost deserted road. I was again fortunate because the second car was busy with a previous customer, so I cruised straight on through without being stopped. However, I wouldn't have thought that the person already pulled was going any faster than myself, and I really do not think it is fair when it is a speed most people do (safely) every day on a clear motorway.
>> Edited by Jolley on Tuesday 28th September 16:24
What about a scenario where a driver, who knows what a laser looks like, sees one pointing at him?
He knows he won't even have time to glance at his speedo; the best he can do is jab on his brakes as quickly as possible just in case.
..and speed has nothing to do with it, he may well be driving perfectly in every way for the conditions at the time and for that particular part of the road.
He knows he won't even have time to glance at his speedo; the best he can do is jab on his brakes as quickly as possible just in case.
..and speed has nothing to do with it, he may well be driving perfectly in every way for the conditions at the time and for that particular part of the road.
Tonyrec said:
Sadly thou, it doesnt have to be a Camera Van. A parked up Trafpol car has the same effect.
(When i say parked up i dont mean being sneaky......simply being at an Accident scene is good enough nowadays)
Maybe if trafpols sat in their parked up positions with the blues going? Maybe itd be visible from further away, and help to reduce these kinds of panic situations. Just a thought.
towman said:
cen said:
The worst scenario of the camera causing accidents
Sorry, but the camera is not causing accidents.
Lack of driving skill and observation is the cause.
Steve
And how are we supposed to see scamera vans hidden behind high walls or parked on housing estates firing lasers across a wide grass verge and two lanes of traffic at vehicles on a dual carriageway . Both in N. Wales, of course.
Are you telling us that you are constantly looking half a mile ahead, which is the distance you can be lasered from, or are you looking much closer to your vehicle to watch for hazards and adjust your speed accordingly.
BTW on the way to the local hospital today with father-in-law as a passenger and me in the back seat, my wife who was driving, was constantly watching her speedo and watching her mirror because some clown in a lorry carrying gas bottles was apparently trying to push us into going faster than the limit at a known laser trap spot.
Knights of the road???
>> Edited by Tafia on Tuesday 28th September 19:30
Tafia said:
And how are we supposed to see scamera vans hidden behind high walls or parked on housing estates firing lasers across a wide grass verge and two lanes of traffic at vehicles on a dual carriageway . Both in N. Wales, of course.
Are you telling us that you are constantly looking half a mile ahead, which is the distance you can be lasered from, or are you looking much closer to your vehicle to watch for hazards and adjust your speed accordingly.
BTW on the way to the local hospital today with father-in-law as a passenger and me in the back seat, my wife who was driving, was constantly watching her speedo and watching her mirror because some clown in a lorry carrying gas bottles was apparently trying to push us into going faster than the limit at a known laser trap spot.
Knights of the road???
>> Edited by Tafia on Tuesday 28th September 19:30
i have to agree with you tafia.
as i mentioned on a thread a while back there was a trafpol hidden away on the M5 which you could not see until you were in range.
the motorway was very busy and on seeing the car,cue drivers panic breaking nearly causing a pile up!!
totally irresponsible policing in my view and almost like inviting an accident!
towman said:
Sorry, but the camera is not causing accidents.
Lack of driving skill and observation is the cause.
Steve
Grow up Steve there are regulations governing the correct signage for alterations to the National Speed Limit which would of course be 70 on a motorway.
If you read the post correctly it states a sign with a camera with a static camera harsh braking can not be avoided.
echo said:
Sadly thou, it doesnt have to be a Camera Van. A parked up Trafpol car has the same effect.
(When i say parked up i dont mean being sneaky......simply being at an Accident scene is good enough nowadays)
vs
safespeed said:
Speed cameras (uniquely amongst hazards) tend to make some drivers look away from the road and down at the speedo.
my experience favours the first view.
Yes. On occasion Police cars can pose a similar "hazard" and my wording was too strong.
However I recognise a real safety benefit from having Police cars dotted about - spotting and dealing with risky drivers. Speed cameras in general lack such beneficial effects.
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