Vosa & driving a van as a service vehicle
Discussion
LoonR1 said:
You're getting seriously into finding problems for yourself aren't you? I've got a van that I use mainly for moving my track / race bike to and from meetings. I don't give a stuff about these rules.
+1My daily driver is a Astravan Sportive, because quite simply I love vans... I use it all day for work because I can chuck stuff in the back of it and not worry if it gets scuffed/marked in work car parks or at sites, I use it in my leisure time as I can fit my tools, jerrry cans, spares in it for driving to track days with my car, I can stick 2 bikes in the back of it for a spot of cycling, household duty such as going to he tip of picking up DIY materials.
Pretty much everything really and save my cars for purely fun.
I can't say I've ever even heard of any of the 'rules' mentioned in this thread.
Oh well
speedyguy said:
Phil Dicky said:
So I asked the polite Vosa guy to loan me something. His response? sorry Sir, cant loan out tools. So I had to wait an hour for the AA to remove and re-fit two bolts !!!!!!
Reminds me of a trainer at our place, To save a rota call out and a bill for over a £100 for a muppet with no recovery they assisted someone who couldn't get their wheel nuts off, Trainer bent the wheelbrace in process of doing it.Fast forward a couple of months and a bill for £5 to replace the wheelbrace ended up on the blokes desk after going all around 3 organisations to find the 'guilty party'
A colleague was reported by a passing recovery guy after being seen assisting a woman with toddlers change a wheel in the P!ssing rain.
Maybe there's a reason they won't lend their tools out as the next thread on PH would be 'I lent a guys socket set and it slipped causing me to scrape my knuckles? Who can I sue ?'
spaximus said:
At present there are no legal rules on how long you can drive a van, which IIRC is up to 3.5 tons Gross weight.
This isn't the case, however it's such a common misconception due to the fact that small vans don't have tachos. Accordingly many think they don't have rules either. I work for a logistics co running everything from small Transits to 44t double-deckers. Hardly any of the local transport managers knew about the Domestic rules, until enough of the van drivers kicked up a fuss at being expected to drive for 14 hours a day for HR to seek clarification from RoSPA and the DfT themselves. We have more van drivers now.
AIUI only in Northern Ireland are vans <3.5t exempted. In GB the domestic rules do apply.
mygoldfishbowl said:
TheRainMaker said:
On a side note, I know you have to stop for VOSA these days but are they allowed to exceed the speed limit to catch you?
They are the waffen SS of England. They can do what ever they want. BonzoG said:
This isn't the case, however it's such a common misconception due to the fact that small vans don't have tachos. Accordingly many think they don't have rules either.
I work for a logistics co running everything from small Transits to 44t double-deckers. Hardly any of the local transport managers knew about the Domestic rules, until enough of the van drivers kicked up a fuss at being expected to drive for 14 hours a day for HR to seek clarification from RoSPA and the DfT themselves. We have more van drivers now.
AIUI only in Northern Ireland are vans <3.5t exempted. In GB the domestic rules do apply.
Well I will raise the question with our transport manager. We run a fleet of over 300 vans from Berlingo's through Vivaro and up to several tractor units. We are one of the companies that are involved in tests with Beverley Bell who is the transport commissioner for our area. Our vans do not have tacho's and our operation is checked regularly by the FTA.
As it happens we do not have any of these which do excessive hours but you have raised doubts that it is something I need to check.
I work for a logistics co running everything from small Transits to 44t double-deckers. Hardly any of the local transport managers knew about the Domestic rules, until enough of the van drivers kicked up a fuss at being expected to drive for 14 hours a day for HR to seek clarification from RoSPA and the DfT themselves. We have more van drivers now.
AIUI only in Northern Ireland are vans <3.5t exempted. In GB the domestic rules do apply.
Well I will raise the question with our transport manager. We run a fleet of over 300 vans from Berlingo's through Vivaro and up to several tractor units. We are one of the companies that are involved in tests with Beverley Bell who is the transport commissioner for our area. Our vans do not have tacho's and our operation is checked regularly by the FTA.
As it happens we do not have any of these which do excessive hours but you have raised doubts that it is something I need to check.
Nigel Worc's said:
A call to Gt Yarmouth, or Greenock, although not every week, will easily eat those driving hours, and leave me a whole 1 hour to work, which isn't enough.
So, on a day like that, how many hours will you have been at work, and how does that affect your drive back home?R0G said:
In any 24 hours under UK domestic rules the max duty time is 11 hours and the max driving hours is 10
Breaks do not count as duty time
As written records are used then its open to abuse
Private use does not count
Yes indeed, it's not too difficult to fiddle, depends though if the driver has any other way of logging his working hours that could be used to corroborate the log book, and if he/she's hourly paid.Breaks do not count as duty time
As written records are used then its open to abuse
Private use does not count
NinjaPower said:
LoonR1 said:
You're getting seriously into finding problems for yourself aren't you? I've got a van that I use mainly for moving my track / race bike to and from meetings. I don't give a stuff about these rules.
+1My daily driver is a Astravan Sportive, because quite simply I love vans... I use it all day for work because I can chuck stuff in the back of it and not worry if it gets scuffed/marked in work car parks or at sites, I use it in my leisure time as I can fit my tools, jerrry cans, spares in it for driving to track days with my car, I can stick 2 bikes in the back of it for a spot of cycling, household duty such as going to he tip of picking up DIY materials.
Pretty much everything really and save my cars for purely fun.
I can't say I've ever even heard of any of the 'rules' mentioned in this thread.
Oh well
Private use/driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living, is not covered by the rules.
Mr GrimNasty said:
The guy in the OP is at risk because of frequent roadside check operations, it's easy to get pulled in, and get caught out. The trouble is you could go a 1000 years and never get checked, or get checked 5 times in a week. It's random. Up to you if you take the risk.
Private use/driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living, is not covered by the rules.
VOSA / DVSA are self funding eg they're funded by the fines they levy, due to the requirement for CPC from this September it's predicted their staff numbers and checkpoints will double from September on wardsPrivate use/driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living, is not covered by the rules.
Many thanks for all the answers, it appears that VOSA are very serious about this, and are doing an information campaign before they begin a clamp down.
It would appear that I (and many others I'm sure), have been breaking these rules we've never heard of for a couple of years or so (twelve months in my case since I bought the van).
The main one I'm breaking is not keeping records, although occasionally I have exceeded the hours.
Having kitted the van out to be my ideal service vehicle, I may now be faced with selling it and returning to a car.
If I keep the van it may be easier to just fit a tacho.
My mate and I are assessing the negatives of these rules, versus the positives of the van.
I've looked into this quite carefully, it would appear that I thankfully don't need the CPC, and I do have a licence for the van, nothing has changed on that front.
A lot of the time I drive less than 4 hours a day, but if the call is a fair way away, then I'm very likely to be "over hours", unless I can lose the call as self employed non duty time.
This is like being transported back to 2000, when DVLA decided I could no longer use my landrover as a service vehicle (due to number of seats, I'm diabetic and at that time my licence was reduced to less than eight seats), but a 150 mph 5 series was fine.
Now I can do as I wish with my 528, but not my 69 bhp slugmobile of a van !
It would appear that I (and many others I'm sure), have been breaking these rules we've never heard of for a couple of years or so (twelve months in my case since I bought the van).
The main one I'm breaking is not keeping records, although occasionally I have exceeded the hours.
Having kitted the van out to be my ideal service vehicle, I may now be faced with selling it and returning to a car.
If I keep the van it may be easier to just fit a tacho.
My mate and I are assessing the negatives of these rules, versus the positives of the van.
I've looked into this quite carefully, it would appear that I thankfully don't need the CPC, and I do have a licence for the van, nothing has changed on that front.
A lot of the time I drive less than 4 hours a day, but if the call is a fair way away, then I'm very likely to be "over hours", unless I can lose the call as self employed non duty time.
This is like being transported back to 2000, when DVLA decided I could no longer use my landrover as a service vehicle (due to number of seats, I'm diabetic and at that time my licence was reduced to less than eight seats), but a 150 mph 5 series was fine.
Now I can do as I wish with my 528, but not my 69 bhp slugmobile of a van !
dacouch said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
The guy in the OP is at risk because of frequent roadside check operations, it's easy to get pulled in, and get caught out. The trouble is you could go a 1000 years and never get checked, or get checked 5 times in a week. It's random. Up to you if you take the risk.
Private use/driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living, is not covered by the rules.
VOSA / DVSA are self funding eg they're funded by the fines they levy, due to the requirement for CPC from this September it's predicted their staff numbers and checkpoints will double from September on wardsPrivate use/driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living, is not covered by the rules.
Nigel, (and others)
The duty time limit doesn't apply to you, though the driving limit does.
And records are only required if you drive more than 4 hours in that day. i.e a record for that specific day.
See pages 26 (bottom) and 27. link
Well at least that is my take from reading the above.
The duty time limit doesn't apply to you, though the driving limit does.
And records are only required if you drive more than 4 hours in that day. i.e a record for that specific day.
See pages 26 (bottom) and 27. link
Well at least that is my take from reading the above.
Nigel Worc's said:
JM.
Many thanks, it looks like as you say, just the driving time applies to me, but so does the record keeping.
To avoid recording a day I need to drive less than 4 hours AND stay within 50 kms of my workshop, if either of these are broken, I need to fill in a logbook.
The same applies to me, so I suppose I should get/make a log-book for the days it would be needed for.Many thanks, it looks like as you say, just the driving time applies to me, but so does the record keeping.
To avoid recording a day I need to drive less than 4 hours AND stay within 50 kms of my workshop, if either of these are broken, I need to fill in a logbook.
Surely a sheet of paper with suitable columns printed in it would do, filled in half way through or at the end of the day of the rules look like applying or have applied...
Print a few sheets off and keep them in the van incase you get stopped.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff